International Politics Thread

[echo1 0]

It was in the wrong place anyway.

If they had wanted it for Iran and North Korea, they needed to base it next to Iran and North Korea not next to Russia. Who were they trying to kid?

Well done Obama is what I say.

I couldn't have put it better myself. Why they don't just stick them in Israel is completely beyond me; the Israelis would probably pay for the extra protection!

[maturin 12]

There were also some talk about a new "Munich" betrayal.

60% of Czechs weren't pro-Hitler, so they can stick that analogy up their launch tubes.

[Rahul 10]

What about relation with india,

[Baff1 0]

The puplic reactions are interesting. First everyone is yelling for peace and the aggressive americans and now they stop behaving the "Bush-way" and people are yelling "weak Obama"...

:391:

I noticed that in the press coverage of Czech and Poland.

2 months ago they were saying how Czech and Polish people didn't want this... and this week the same journalists are saying how they did.

I've put it down to the art of story telling.

I guess journalists just need issues to be contentious.

[MehMan 0]

My personal opinion is: great, didn't like the idea of the shield. I'm all for economic ties with the USA(ok well maybe not right now, but it hasn't been a bad expirence all in all) and joint military training, passing on expirence etc., a US led base isn't exactly up my street, even less ICBM interceptors.

[sudayev 27]

As a Polishman I must thay that we were let down by with Obama's decision not to station missile shield in Poland and Czech. We have been pushed to take part in this project by the US since 2002.

With this negative decision I think this will put this "love story" with US to the end. Polish govt hoped for mutual benefits for Poland ad the US. For them, deployement of the missile shield and enchancing security, for Poland - being under "the umbrella" + extra patriot missile battery and military improvements. Now it's no more, which is pity.

I must say that democrats in the white house are no good for Poland. They only care about themselves and shoving their partner's, thats what they best. They're more concerned with Obamas health reform now.

With Obama's decision there are more smiling faces showing around except Russia, it will be mr. Iran and mr. DPRK.

I keep in touch with my US friends and the news as I'm deeply interested in this country and what I have to say that Obama and H.Clinton never expressed anything about their "allies" in Central Europe while president Bush always mentioned Polish contribution and commitment in the global war on terrorism and such.

Methinks the US should install their missile shiled system in Russia and man the installation with Russian allies, Obama should consider allowing his Cuban friends to this project as well ha ha.

There is other side of this coin toss by the way. The Republic of Poland prepared for turn down and came up with own idea, own missile shield based on French rocket system Mdba Aster: http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htada/articles/20090722.aspx

The bad smell after the White House turn down will remain. If my govenment had serious balls they should drastically reduce and withdraw from Afghanistan later on and let the US know that they are loosing a vital ally.

It's every man for himself now.

[kavoven 4]

May I ask why you think you need such a system?

[MehMan 0]

Those evil Americans and their wish to fix things at home! How selfish of them.

[maturin 12]

As a Polishman I must thay that we were let down by with Obama's decision not to station missile shield in Poland and Czech. We have been pushed to take part in this project by the US since 2002.

With this negative decision I think this will put this "love story" with US to the end. Polish govt hoped for mutual benefits for Poland ad the US. For them, deployement of the missile shield and enchancing security, for Poland - being under "the umbrella" + extra patriot missile battery and military improvements. Now it's no more, which is pity.

I must say that democrats in the white house are no good for Poland. They only care about themselves and shoving their partner's, thats what they best. They're more concerned with Obamas health reform now.

With Obama's decision there are more smiling faces showing around except Russia, it will be mr. Iran and mr. DPRK.

I keep in touch with my US friends and the news as I'm deeply interested in this country and what I have to say that Obama and H.Clinton never expressed anything about their "allies" in Central Europe while president Bush always mentioned Polish contribution and commitment in the global war on terrorism and such.

Methinks the US should install their missile shiled system in Russia and man the installation with Russian allies, Obama should consider allowing his Cuban friends to this project as well ha ha.

There is other side of this coin toss by the way. The Republic of Poland prepared for turn down and came up with own idea, own missile shield based on French rocket system Mdba Aster: http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htada/articles/20090722.aspx

The bad smell after the White House turn down will remain. If my govenment had serious balls they should drastically reduce and withdraw from Afghanistan later on and let the US know that they are loosing a vital ally.

It's every man for himself now.

Giving a minority (36%) of Poland a warm, fluffy feeling and stimulating the local economy near the silos is not worth even mildly irritating Putin. Missile defense is still going ahead, and Poland is still in Nato. Russia knows that the U.S. didn't really give anything up, and they have said so. At least some of foreign policy is determined by rational people, and this fracas will be forgotten in a month or two.

[derk yall 0]

60% of Czechs weren't pro-Hitler, so they can stick that analogy up their launch tubes.

Sorry, but can you please explain what you mean by this? I am not so good in english so I can have some problems with understanding, but what has this in common with the situation with the radar shield?

I wroted about new "munich" betrayal, because these are the feeling/ ideas which are in there (czech rep.) It mean that they deside about us, without us. Like sometimes during the discussions betwen US and Russia, and now by the announce of the american minister of defence, that "there wil be rockets, better and faster in czech rep. and poland". The problems is that this men was speaking like the if czech rep. was directly under the control of USA so they can place rockets how they want without asking.

Baff1:

Czech media arnt trustful everytime, you know, the problems of free media, is that they are never free, but owned by someone, and when you have enough money, you can control the media especialy here.

[maturin 12]

Sorry, but can you please explain what you mean by this? I am not so good in english so I can have some problems with understanding, but what has this in common with the situation with the radar shield?

I wroted about new "munich" betrayal, because these are the feeling/ ideas which are in there (czech rep.) It mean that they deside about us, without us. Like sometimes during the discussions betwen US and Russia, and now by the announce of the american minister of defence, that "there wil be rockets, better and faster in czech rep. and poland". The problems is that this men was speaking like the if czech rep. was directly under the control of USA so they can place rockets how they want without asking.

Baff1:

Czech media arnt trustful everytime, you know, the problems of free media, is that they are never free, but owned by someone, and when you have enough money, you can control the media especialy here.

Polls indicate that 60% of the Czech public was opposed to the missile shield being installed in their country. So these government officials and members of the public that are making loud, exaggerated statements of displeasure are actually in the minority. The abandonment of the missile shield in the Czech Republic is the will of its citizens, although its citizens did not make the decision.

So it is not a Munich betrayal because a majority of Czechs were opposed to the Munich agreements, not in favor of them.

It is unfortunate that the U.S. reversed its foreign policy and broke prior agreements with an ally, but both countries are democracies and are subject to changes of administration. It would have been better never to announce the missile shield, never provoking a needless dispute with Russia, and pursued other projects designed to involve Poland with Nato more deeply. Poland remembers Russia's last invasion, but Russia also remembers Poland's last invasion. I don't think the fears on either side are particularly rational.

Edited September 21, 2009 by maturin

[kavoven 4]

Oh dear!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6849070.ece

Muammar Gaddafi's personal translator broke down towards the end of the Libyan leader's meandering 94-minute UN speech and had to be rescued by a UN Arabic speaker.

[echo1 0]

He also claimed that Swine Flu was a man made virus. One can only imagine that if there was some secret conspiracy to kill people with biological warfare, that they'd come up with something more awesome than a less deadly variation of the common flu...

[kavoven 4]

Elections in Germany today. Forecasts talk about nearly 50% for conservativs(CDU) and liberals(FDP) and nearly 50% for left(SPD), far left(Die Linke) and greens(Bündnis 90/Die Grüne)

CDU and SPD, the two big major parties lost many votes during the last years to the FDP and Die Linke(which was founded just a few years ago) but the SPD suffered a much more significant loss since the right wing moved to the FDP and the left wing joined Die Linke. CDU lost their votes mainly to the FDP, which will probably result in some interesting numbers today.

First results will be available at aprox. 6pm (GMT+1)

[echo1 0]

I must say that democrats in the white house are no good for Poland. They only care about themselves and shoving their partner's, thats what they best. They're more concerned with Obamas health reform now.

The bastards! What sort of incompetent imbecile would prioritize healthcare at home over providing a missile shield to another country that doesn't need it!

I keep in touch with my US friends and the news as I'm deeply interested in this country and what I have to say that Obama and H.Clinton never expressed anything about their "allies" in Central Europe while president Bush always mentioned Polish contribution and commitment in the global war on terrorism and such.

So Bush was a better president than Obama or Clinton because he mentioned Poland a few times?

Methinks the US should install their missile shiled system in Russia and man the installation with Russian allies, Obama should consider allowing his Cuban friends to this project as well ha ha.

They should have put it in Israel which is right beside the 'action' and has a much higher chance of being attacked compared with Poland or the Czech Republic.

[kavoven 4]

Early forecast:

CDU 33,5% (-1.7)

SPD 22,5% (-11.5 --> desaster)

FDP 15,0% (+5)

Grüne 10,5 (+2,4)

Die Linke 12,5 (+3,8)

With some special rules in our voting systems this means Angela Merkel(CDU) will stay chancellor together with the FDP.

Edit

Quote from BBC

Chancellor Angela Merkel has been returned to power in Germany, exit polls suggest, after her conservative bloc won 33.5% of the vote.

Mrs Merkel's CDU/CSU may have enough seats to ditch her Social Democrat coalition partners and form a centre-right alliance with the FDP.

Preliminary results are expected in the next few hours.

ZDF television's exit poll gave the Social Democrats (SPD) 23.5%, and the Free Democrats (FDP) 14.5%.

The BBC's Steve Rosenberg in Berlin says the result if confirmed would be a disaster for the Social Democrats (SPD), who could have their lowest share of the vote since World War II.

Exit polls in Germany, Europe's largest economy and the biggest member of the European Union, are generally considered to be extremely reliable.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8277526.stm

Edited September 27, 2009 by kavoven

[Commando84 0]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/business/global/29copy.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=google%20news&st=cse

Can someone stop the sudden rise of crazy politicians with crazy ideas?! Why can't they leave their corrupt fingers out of the internets???

[kavoven 4]

Well I can understand the problem on the on hand. The way Google wants to do it doesn't respect the work of the authors. But I'm not that much into this topic, so don't call this a qualified response =)

[Mage 10]

In South America, yes. In Veneuela, Argentina and all those countries moving towards socialism.

You're wrong.

Argentina has been traditionally center-right wing and commonly right wing since its foundation.

only takes to see how a regular argentine citizen lives like and you'll see it looks more like the life of a north american than the life of a chinese/russian etc. Especially in fashion, likes, dislikes, ideology, etc.

At the moment, we do have a center-left government. But their image is 90% negative. I doubt they'll stay in power after the 2011 elections.

[kavoven 4]

What would a move to the right mean in your country? Any specific changes? And how would you describe Argentinas role ind South American politics now and in the future?

(I'm just interested, don't know anything about that :) )

[Whiskey_Tango 10]

there is a simple way to stop corruption, any politician can not earn income outside of their salary...they can not live a lifestyle outside of their means of income (meaning no rich wives doing the dirty work for them)

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

there is a simple way to stop corruption, any politician can not earn income outside of their salary...they can not live a lifestyle outside of their means of income (meaning no rich wives doing the dirty work for them)

None of this can be controlled, it can all be circumvented - see UK's expenses scandal, happening right in front of everyone's noses.

If you really want to effectively stop corruption, then you need to follow the age-old "trick": Hang the bastards! Then follow this with a rule, stating

a) Anyone wishing to "do" politics must have at least 15years of work experience

b) You may not spend more than 2 terms in any political office (whether that's local councillor or Prime Minister or whatever)

There you go, this way you stop people from being 'politicians' as a 'profession'.

How do you administer it? I dunno, but it's a good starter for 10 :p

[GoOB 0]

I agree that politicians should have experience outside the political sphere - Far too many politicians in Sweden are strictly politicians (I think the record is held by a woman that has spent 45 years in a parliament seat), and in many ways they loose track of what it's like to have a more regular job. But fifteen years is a bit too much, as young people could no longer engage in politics where they can truly make a difference.

Another thing... Politicians should have alot lower wages than what they have currently - Hell, high level politicians in Sweden get payed even after they loose an election! In my opinion, politicians and their families should be supplied with room and board near or in the capital where they must practise their job, then on top of this they should be given a slightly higher wage than that of the average worker, and perhaps a small cash bonus when they leave the political scene. Politicians making 25.000 euros plus each month really cannot be excpected to be very much in touch with the day to day lives of the people they govern.

[Whiskey_Tango 10]

None of this can be controlled, it can all be circumvented - see UK's expenses scandal, happening right in front of everyone's noses.

If you really want to effectively stop corruption, then you need to follow the age-old "trick": Hang the bastards! Then follow this with a rule, stating

a) Anyone wishing to "do" politics must have at least 15years of work experience

b) You may not spend more than 2 terms in any political office (whether that's local councillor or Prime Minister or whatever)

There you go, this way you stop people from being 'politicians' as a 'profession'.

How do you administer it? I dunno, but it's a good starter for 10 :p

better yet why not stone them, i agree with the professional politician term limits....the politicians need to be limited as well when they are in office, something along the lines of what i said...violate it and say hello to being tied to a post and stoned to death...should curb alot of it

especially after a few examples are made and future scam artists see that it isnt a joke

[jakerod 254]

there is a simple way to stop corruption, any politician can not earn income outside of their salary...they can not live a lifestyle outside of their means of income (meaning no rich wives doing the dirty work for them)

Another reason that won't work is because they can always be paid to do corrupt things beforehand or sign a contract stating that they will be paid for something after they have done it and retired. You can't really force them to not have incomes when they quit office. That isn't fair and would likely lead to bad things.