P3dedit

[noundo 0]

IMO Pathy's argument about people releasing changed models is wrong.

So what if there are umpteen different version of something (like m4's ). Only the truly good and innovative addons will get downloaded and used, bad ones will just fade away.

Also as has been pointed out, the more popular OFP sites don't host stolen addons, so again the exposure and use of anything that might be stolen would be severely limited.

[Pathy 0]

I really hope your right, but none of that still justifies the release of P3dedit in my mind.

Last time i spoke to drill sgt on msn, they made it clear it was MODELS stolen by a beta tester and given to a certain addon maker on these forums. I havent spoken to drill sgt since, so i am unaware of any change in attitude, but...the theft still happened. Other than that i CANT say names because DS made it clear that a flame war was something they didnt want

I didnt say there were loads of examples, because there arent thats is because P3DEDIT IS NOT PUBLIC. However, i thought you said there were no examples at all of nicking, which as youve admitted, is just not true.

And if you think selecting a model part and moving it to another place is hard, you need serious modelling coaching my freind. But im guessing by saying "i imagine" you are alluding to the fact you dont model. And therefore dont know how easy or hard the process it. Moving a model or parts of it around is a peice of piss. Even a CS kiddie could do that. So he could nick a scope off one addon, a whatever off another, something else of a 3rd, and move them all together. Not hard.

If you want ill do it with my own models to make a shotgun with a 203 grenade launcher and a sniper scope  

And mate, get the message, if an addon maker wants his model to be looked at he will leave it MLOD, if not, he will encrypt it....shouldnt you respect that choice?

Anyway, the point is, its not elitist, its protectionist. And thats why ofpinternals have not released it. A tool like this can only have negative effects if released for public use.

One system i would be in favour of is, a pack of all BIS addons available in MLOD. However, private addons should not be included, if a modeller wants his addon locked, he should be allowed to.....if you want to edit his addon, then you go thru the traditional method, you ask the addon maker for permission, and if he is ok with that, he will let you.....a much better system that the "anyone can do what they like without needing permissions"

[vektorboson 8]

Quote[/b] ]

Last time i spoke to drill sgt on msn, they made it clear it was MODELS stolen by a beta tester

This is an internal thing; I'm talking about released addons that are public to everybody, not some BETA-testers.

Quote[/b] ]

I didnt say there were loads of examples, because there arent thats is because P3DEDIT IS NOT PUBLIC. However, i thought you said there were no examples at all of nicking, which as youve admitted, is just not true.

This would be right, if everybody released their addons as ODOL. But this isn't true, there were times were everybody released their addons as MLOD, and even now some people are releasing addons as MLOD. And I don't see any thefts.

And about saying that there happened some thefts, yes I admitted, but they happened in very low numbers (2 or 3 times). And this is contrary to your point that the thefts will skyrocket, even regarding that the community is steadily shrinking and thus your beloved kiddies are leaving.

Quote[/b] ]

And if you think selecting a model part and moving it to another place is hard, you need serious modelling coaching my freind. But im guessing by saying "i imagine" you are alluding to the fact you dont model. And therefore dont know how easy or hard the process it. Moving a model or parts of it around is a peice of piss. Even a CS kiddie could do that.

Well, as I began to work with O2 it was really hard to even throw two different parts together. I tried to move a ACOG from HK pack's M16 to a M4 from FlipeR. I think this was hard for a beginner. Now that I am more advanced with O2, it is very easy for me to make such changes, but for your CS kiddie it is hard. That was my point.

And even if you throw different parts together, they still don't have to look like they fit together. Perhaps you want a different sound, different weapon behaviour. You have to go all the way through learning addon making - and this is a good thing.

I want them to throw different parts together, because this is a first step in Modelling. How many people started addon making by modfying other people's work?

Quote[/b] ]

And mate, get the message, if an addon maker wants his model to be looked at he will leave it MLOD, if not, he will encrypt it....shouldnt you respect that choice?

No, I won't get the message. Just some examples:

- scripts and resources, everybody can copy them, rip them apart, whatever

- islands, everybody can rip them apart and modify them

- textures, the same

- sounds, the same

- config.cpp, the same

- config.bin, well with a hexeditor and PBO Decryptor

Why is the Modeller's work more worth than all the other's? Why should his work be encrypted, but everything else not?

Quote[/b] ]Anyway, the point is, its not elitist, its protectionist. And thats why ofpinternals have not released it. A tool like this can only have negative effects if released for public use.

One word: PARANOIA.

I'll list you the advantages in my eyes:

- rework/finish abandoned addons:

Someone releases a very nice addon, which needs some final steps or update to current standards, but the addon maker left and so this addon is being forgotten. Someone can take this addon and update it; this is happening with the Hummvee-pack, which was luckily left in MLOD

- Modifying for personal use:

Someone thinks that he indeed needs a shotgun with a sniper rifle. If he manages to do this, he has got his fun. And with this he made his first steps with O2 or other modelling tool.

- the educating effect

I learned more through looking at other people's work than through tutorials. There are certainly more people like me, but anyway you need both, tutorials and addons to learn from.

- the temporary bug fix

Someone releases an addon, let's say a tank; when you switch to gunner view, you see a big white triangle in front of your optics and you can't play as gunner/commander. The addon maker tells you that he will release a bugfix in 2 months, when he fixed all the other bugs.

Meanwhile you could have fixed it yourself in one minute...

And a last thing I'm gonna tell you: I began as a scripter in the community, I made some innovative scripts, which you can see on my homepage in the download section. Guess what happened to me?

Someone released one of my projects under his name, no credits to me (and this happened more recently again, but a little modified).

And I hope that everybody has the balls to come over it, after all it's a game, and we're working all towards the one goal to make it better and more enjoyable.

If that's not enough for you, it's OK, I respect your opinion. But it's enough for me, and that's why I won't take part anymore in this discussion.

[bardamu 0]

vektorboson the voice of wisdom.

It's funny how some guys are in great paranoia,may be they fear that "noobs" make better addons than theirs.

For exemple it would be nice for people to have this prog to see how a forest is set up in O2 to work perfectly in game.

The same for some object that are not oftenly made like some object on Tonal(fire etc...).

[waffendennis 0]

vektorboson the voice of wisdom.

It's funny how some guys are in great paranoia,may be they fear that "noobs" make better addons than theirs.

For exemple it would be nice for people to have this prog to see how a forest is set up in O2 to work perfectly in game.

The same for some object that are not oftenly made like some object on Tonal(fire etc...).

They dont Fear that the "n00bs" will make better models they fear that the "n00bs" will make tons of versions from the same Addon.

[Pathy 0]

Quote[/b] ]And this is contrary to your point that the thefts will skyrocket, even regarding that the community is steadily shrinking and thus your beloved kiddies are leaving.

What? Im sorry, but, you are ignoring that the low number of thefts are only due to p3dedit NOT being public.

And its not internal mate not that it matters, the reason p3dedit shouldnt be released is to keep thefts at a minimum

Most people i know made thier 1st addon from tutes. I never looked at anyone elses work when i began, although i have given out some of my models to people i have taught/helped personally to see how i did it.

And your saying that modellers shouldnt be allowed to apply some measure of security on thier work? How dumb is that....

ONE WORD: Naive

Sure in the right hands it would have all those nice little effects. BUT it needs to be regulated. It is not a tool for just anybody. I believe that the aformentioned tool that allows you to look at models but not edit them will solve most of the issues you raise, you dont NEED p3dedit, and, whats more, ofpinternals wont give it to you anyway.

And Bardamu, i have nothing to fear from "noobs", however, a community in which there are regular "new" addons coming out which are just rehashes of an old one, no better, just a guy trying to take some credit for nothing, is something nobody wants to see. If you are saying i am "scared of new addon makers", of course im not, each new addon maker is a potential recruit for my mod i try to encourage people to model.

I am by no means the anti new people guy you are trying to make me out as, i am writing a tute on drawing weapon textures and have already taught 2 people to make thier own textures for guns........what i am anti is the repression of creativity and originallity by releasing this tool.

[cympatheey 0]

Did I miss something or is flipper going to realease this tool? Because if he isnt then what are we all arguing for in the first place Ofp Internals asked not to have it relased and only released it to certain individuals, right? So do you think this conversation has any point besides arguing and causing heat among ourselves? Just my opinion.

/CympatheeY

[Major Fubar 0]

vektorboson the voice of wisdom.

It's funny how some guys are in great paranoia,may be they fear that "noobs" make better addons than theirs.

For exemple it would be nice for people to have this prog to see how a forest is set up in O2 to work perfectly in game.

The same for some object that are not oftenly made like some object on Tonal(fire etc...).

They dont Fear that the "n00bs" will make better models they fear that the "n00bs" will make tons of versions from the same Addon.

And that's not already happening? *cough*M4 carbine*cough*

[waffendennis 0]

vektorboson the voice of wisdom.

It's funny how some guys are in great paranoia,may be they fear that "noobs" make better addons than theirs.

For exemple it would be nice for people to have this prog to see how a forest is set up in O2 to work perfectly in game.

The same for some object that are not oftenly made like some object on Tonal(fire etc...).

They dont Fear that the "n00bs" will make better models they fear that the "n00bs" will make tons of versions from the same Addon.

And that's not already happening? *cough*M4 carbine*cough*  

Yeah thats true :P

But can you see the mayor release of (the same ) addons if p3dedit will be released?

We will be flooded in tons of Delta force units and tons of other stuff

[Pathy 0]

*hides pictures of Nightstalkers Modern Jungle Deltas* (those are NEEDED ok, there are no existing ones that meet our requirements)

Cympatheey, yes you did miss something, the arguments about whether it should be released or not.

I say no.

[feersum.endjinn 6]

Probably anyone with any previous experience at 3D coding can code their own basic ODOL->MLOD converter pretty quickly. Make a object consisting of different sized cubes in all LODs, binarize it and compare them in hex editor. Most of data is in same format as MLOD, just optimized a lot and you'll figure out how to extract at least vertex data and face lists pretty quickly. That's what I was experimenting with before our mod team got their dirty hands on p3dedit

I'd guess that 90% of time coding p3dedit has been spent on making actual GUI, reverse engineering file formats and data conversion is lot simpler work.

[FlipeR 0]

I'd guess that 90% of time coding p3dedit has been spent on making actual GUI, reverse engineering file formats and data conversion is lot simpler work.

I'm sad to hear more childish talking about things you cant even immagine  With this statement you prooved to be an incompetent in coding field, since it took almost 1 year of standalone research of 3 different persons, to be then able to write something like p3dedit. And believe me, GUI took only ~0,05% of the time involved...

I whish I had never given this tool to such an ingrate community like you little b******s are!

Flip

[waffendennis 0]

I knew some thing like this was coming...

And I think this p3dedit topic is just a ****** topic...

I think its better that this one be closed.

[BraTTy 0]

I had to look into other models to learn some things,I am not one to steal parts,just information.

Its been this long and I have no need for a p3dedit tool anyways.

Someone that binarizes their addons is not always to stop you from looking inside it,some do tho and I am not one to pry.

My Corsair is binarized for optimizations sake.The unbinarized versions are on my webpage.And your right, that binarized the model but its the textures that aren't all my work and I would have liked to protect them for the author.So binarize doesn't protect much, the model is often the easiest part of the addon.

[NZXSHADOWS 0]

I whish I had never given this tool to such an ingrate community like you little b******s are!

Flip

Now wait a minute.Thats not nice.Im sure that the people that do have this tool are using it responsible.

[Pathy 0]

Well actually lets, correct him even further.....they hardly GAVE it to the community, there are only 5 legal copies as you said.......

How can we be ungrateful for something weve not had

But actually glad that you didnt release it.

[cympatheey 0]

Cympatheey, yes you did miss something, the arguments about whether it should be released or not.

I say no.

WEll is it really up to any of you? No heat intended but what say do you have in it at all, it's not your program you didnt write it so no one except the people who write it should have a say in it. So I think this topic would be better off closed.

/CymPatheeY

[feersum.endjinn 6]

I'm sad to hear more childish talking about things you cant even immagine  With this statement you prooved to be an incompetent in coding field, since it took almost 1 year of standalone research of 3 different persons, to be then able to write something like p3dedit. And believe me, GUI took only ~0,05% of the time involved...

Thank you for your confidence in my programming skills. As I already have about 90% working ODOL -> MLOD converter, I might offer other opinion.

Since someone is probably going to ask "how?", I'll tell you: secret to opening ODOL format is good old-fashioned reverse engineering the game executable.

--- several reverse engineering tips removed from here ---.

--- several details about proprietary file format removed ----

It's tedious job and requires fairly good knowledge of x86 assembler but some things are just almost impossible to find out with just comparing two slightly different binarized models.

Maybe someday I'll can be bothered finishing that code and I'll publish file format specs, but I think you'll see OFP2 sooner than that, it's always the last 10% which takes 90% of time...

[waffendennis 0]

Mind i add some thing:

For the people who got P3dedit Iligal or are trying to crack open the ODOL files:

BIS Copyrighted their Addons and you can clrearly read:

you must stay with the DEMO models Any other models that are converted from Their ODOL to MLOD type Are iligal and Bis can/will Sue you for it...

So I suggest:

Remove the tool and be happy with what you have.

( PS: Fliper can Sue the people with P3dEdit to cause: OfpInternals was Copyrighted unless their copyright from 2004 is gone )

[NZXSHADOWS 0]

What ever.Even if I got sued,What would they sue me for.I dont own anything.So I guess I will seat my ass in jail for awhile.

[BraTTy 0]

Lol you wouldn't go to jail on a civil matter like that,not only that, it takes money to sue someone.

I cannot believe the insults.. calling the whole community ingtrate is kinda generalized for the few people involved.

But relax...you make a tool to hack Bis models but get upset when the shoe is on the other foot.

The tool maybe could have been usefull at one point ,but several years later...I haven't missed or needed it at all.

Maybe someone has gotten some use out of it in the past years, so all your work didn't go to total waste

I need to shutup as this doesn't involve me (at least I didn't think so until the ingrate community was mentioned)

[stgn 39]

They dont Fear that the "n00bs" will make better models they fear that the "n00bs" will make tons of versions from the same Addon.

And that's not already happening? *cough*M4 carbine*cough*  

You are saying

Alot of M4's are bad But I don't think it is because meany are based on BIS's and CS(well it such enyway so there is not much to do) It is because People don't do there home work It is funny that all these M4's have been released and I have been able to point out rongs on all the versions I have seen and that is alot I tell you.

I think it would be a good Idear to release more addons in MLOD cause when I first started moddeling the first model I made was a MP5A2(from G8 mod) whit some scope(was on the MP5SD6 from NATO mod) the first ingame weapon was a M16A1 (mix of BIS and that M16A1 from lostbrothers) the second was a SOPMOD based on the M4 from Dessert storm mod man I loved that gun even whit the white faces.

Now a days I am still modeling on a SOPMOD baesd on BIS's but very heavely modified and thats what I do most of the time or rather making textures(boy thats a hell).

If I hadent been able to look at others models then I would problery not haved played OFP to day.

STGN

[suma 8]

Quote[/b] ]secret to opening ODOL format is good old-fashioned reverse engineering the game executable.

... and you are really proud to talk about such breeching of the license agreement you have with Codemasters in public?

Reverse engineering is strongly discouraged and certainly not supported by us.

[kegetys 2]

... and you are really proud to talk about such breeching of the license agreement you have with Codemasters in public?

Thats how most of us learn ;)

[vektorboson 8]

@Suma

Not that I want to encourage people of deassembling your game code, but there are countries where it is allowed to reverse engineer code if you can't retrieve information about file formats otherwise (I think Denmark is one of those countries).

And not everything in the license agreements is valid in every country, but I guess that Kegetys and feersum are people who bought the game and just want to maximize their fun from it