JAP 2 Posted March 2, 2004 I would say it should join germany. We could need some cheap labour working in our mines and building our tanks and new submarines. Walloons you say ? Lol, ok ... But i m not setting one foot in a tank or sub like that ! So you dont wanna be famous anymore for your "Deutsche gründlichheit" ( spelling ) ?? About Brussels ... The border could be running from Mouscron to Halle to Liege and Verviers ... hell i m up for that plan ! Lets set this into motion, if Chirac will fill in some adoption forms ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albert Schweitzer 10 Posted March 2, 2004 So Jap, tell us. What is your father and mother saying about the trial, how emotionally involved are they. Is there still a little confidence your judical system left? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JAP 2 Posted March 2, 2004 So Jap, tell us. What is your father and mother saying about the trial, how emotionally involved are they. Is there still a little confidence your judical system left? Well, i dont know about my mom and dad I m 33 so i left home a while ago Didn t speak to my mom in years now .. long story and private Personally i really couldnt care less about the trail itself, but i care about the result. I m not too emotional envolved ( although i have a 4 year old daughter ) mainly because this has happened such a long time ago. The people here more or less came over the initial shock this bastard caused. I know if the punishment is way lower then the average person expects ( which is Life in Prison MINIMAL !! ) all the bad feelings will be tripled by most of the population, and i cant really tell what will happen then. But you can be sure it s the governments head if that happens ... at least. Generally everyone thinks it s about damn time the trail started and feeling confident he will get his punishment he deserves, most people arent too emotional about it anymore, at least not the people i know. For someone just reading up on what happened here all these years ago i can imagine him being shocked. About confidence in the judical system ... hehe ... no comment. I have a good friend and he lives in a not so nice neighbourhood in Antwerp. One day ( few months ago ) his wife got mugged at 15hrs in plain daylight with a knife on her neck. They went to the police, filed a report and they were looking, now for the robber's bad luck my friend found him first ( turns out he lived a few streets further, probably some crackhead ). He was walking with his wife near their home just a few hours after the robbery and his wife frooze. She told m, that s him, he went to him, turned him around and smacked him in the face, he was out. Police came, picked him up, ... he was out 2 hrs later ! So having faith in the judical/law system here ... no not really. Cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redface 1 Posted March 2, 2004 I would say it should join germany. We could need some cheap labour working in our mines and building our tanks and new submarines. I didn't expect a statement like this to come from Albert Schweitzer, more like from some other Albert S. no harm intended, but when living in Germany I was told not to make jokes about your history of cheap & forced labour. although I do notice you are saying this tongue-in-cheek, this remark would have been quite painful to my grandfather Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iNeo 0 Posted March 2, 2004 So Jap, tell us. What is your father and mother saying Hehe sorry but hahaha, as if he's 11, when he's actually 33 with a child of his own sounded damn funny Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albert Schweitzer 10 Posted March 2, 2004 JAP. I see your point with being 33, but still one needs to be a father or a mother to be able to feel what this trial is about. Dutroux, nah, he is just a puppet. Every person in the trial repeats the same: Dutroux was horny for the money nothing else. What is realy interesting is who his customers were. If that bomb of information blows up, then you are near to anarchy. And redface, historically I dont see no fit. Belgium was not seen a supply country of cheap labour. Belgium was anyhting but treated well, that I fully agree to. But you better get used to my little sarcasm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JAP 2 Posted March 2, 2004 So Jap, tell us. What is your father and mother saying Hehe sorry but hahaha, as if he's 11, when he's actually 33 with a child of his own sounded damn funny Expect some "accidental" tk's in our next co-op Neo ! Â @ Albert Quote[/b] ]JAP. I see your point with being 33, but still one needs to be a father or a mother to be able to feel what this trial is about. I know what you mean. It s not just this trail. What i regret or feel bad about being a father is the fact that my daughter can t play on the streets without worries or us as parents worrying about what might happen ( kidnapping or worse ). Such thoughts are omnipresent with every parent, but not just here, all over the world. Dutroux isnt the one responsible for this, it s just that every year people feel less and less secure in their own home/neighbourhood. Like an uncle of me says, pretty soon you ll need a big electrified fence and all the security hardware possible to feel somewhat secure in your own home. Well, that s maybe a little exagerated, but you know what i m saying. I guess it s evolution, but if that ( feeling less and less secure ) is what evolution is about i rather be stuck in the 50's or 60's. Knowing a few Dutch parents ( from dutch kids going to my daugther's school ) they tell me that Belgium has alot less crime then Holland and it s nice living here. So it s hard for me to say Belgium has less or more crime then the other average country. I feel pretty secure myself, although you often worry about your kid, but that s what parents do ... right ?!? Cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blanco 0 Posted March 2, 2004 Quote[/b] ]So having faith in the judical/law system here ... no not really. The saddest thing is, without a doubt, this can happen again with the same mistakes they've made years ago. I believe only a real revolution of the Belgians can change that and open the eyes of the goverment. @JAP : I can tell you 20 stories like that... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frisbee 0 Posted March 2, 2004 Well, my parents opinion on it is simple, they both think these seven years have been a waste of time and money, and that that idiot should've been on the receiving end of a bullet years ago. I'm only 18, so does their opinion count? Oh and except the governement sometimes mucking up, I still find this a lovely country to live in (as long as I'm on this side of the language barrier). The insecurity here is mainly artificial, political parties making everyone believe that crime is a major issue, so people get scared and vote for parties who promise to do something about it, something you'll see everywhere, not just here. The bureacracy and the logical consequence thereof, corruption are bigger problems, but not in the everyday life of a regular schmoe, so it'll stay that way. It doesn't help that the belgian nature is to be quiet and to have low self esteem (then again, logical since all our neighbours except luxemburg have invaded and conquered us one time or the other ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balschoiw 0 Posted March 2, 2004 The attorney´s paper has 78 pages. So it took 7 years to extract 78 pages ? Man, what a lousy job done there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scousejedi 0 Posted March 3, 2004 I assume Belgium has trial by jury? If this guy is as bad as the media has made him out to be (Im from UK and only vaguely remember the story from 7 years ago) whats to stop him asking for a retrial when he is found guity based on a predudicial jury - ie everyone in Belgium 'knows' he is guilty before proven in a court of law. If he is sleeping during the trial he obviously wants to prolong the parents agony and this would be an effective means. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redface 1 Posted March 3, 2004 on a side-note: there's some sick debate going on about whether Dutroux can be photographed and filmed during the trial. OK, there is some weird old tradition in Europe that limits us to cartoon-like paintings of what is going on in the courtroom. But now his lawyers have claimed D.'s right for privacy at any moment. Bear in mind that this is the man who let the kidnapped children walk around naked in his house so that they couldn't escape & obviously so that he could rape them at any moment. (one of the girls fled from the house twice, bare-naked, but was recaptured each time; she was later buried alive) Privacy ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pipski 0 Posted March 3, 2004 True, but it's best if society doesn't descend to his level. His right to privacy doesn't just protect him, if it was ignored on this occasion it could be ignored again in the future, then it could be ignored all the time and you end up with trials like OJs. Anyway, maybe if they can't spend all their time analysing footage from inside the court maybe, just maybe, the media will concentrate on facts for a change. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redface 1 Posted March 3, 2004 Hmm, although I admit that in this case the urge to resort to more primitive feelings about "justice" & descending to the perpetrator's level is lurking around the corner, I was in fact pointing out how trials like this display a tendancy to entangle themselves all too easily in all kinds of formal procedural side-issues. Oh well, right now Dutroux is inventing completely new versions of the facts: the kids were kidnapped by police officers who put them in his car etc. He's got nothing to lose ... lots of painful farce still ahead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albert Schweitzer 10 Posted March 3, 2004 Why wasnt he killed yet. I mean I know that in Germany child abusers are treated pretty badly by other prison mates. Thanks god. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JAP 2 Posted March 3, 2004 Why wasnt he killed yet. I mean I know that in Germany child abusers are treated pretty badly by other prison mates. Â Thanks god. Â I dont think he s able to go with the "regular" prisoners. I think he s in isolation for his own safety. And here too they are looked down on and beaten by other inmates ! Oh, the trail is starting to live here ... my wife actually bought the newspaper today ... for the first time i know here IIRC Cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iNeo 0 Posted March 3, 2004 Over here child abusers are never enprisoned together with "regular" prisoners, afaik. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpongeBob 0 Posted March 3, 2004 on a side-note: there's some sick debate going on about whether Dutroux can be photographed and filmed during the trial. OK, there is some weird old tradition in Europe that limits us to cartoon-like paintings of what is going on in the courtroom. I like how they just block out the eyes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apollo 0 Posted March 3, 2004 This might be an interresting read if you want to go somewhat further in the conspiracy theory ,or conspiracy fact actually. http://www.pvda.be/solidair/n4599/xdossier.html I saw Douglas Deconinck ,one of the writers of this book and investigating reporter ,on Nachtwacht on Canvas this evening.Deconinck confirmed that a total of 30 persons that wanted to come forward to give new information were misteriously unable to do so ,of wich 7 of this informants 'commited suicide' ,8 of them died in a 'car accident' ,5 were confirmed murdered and the rest just vanished ,this all withing a 1 day maximum span after they signalled to want to give information. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apollo 0 Posted March 4, 2004 Children that dissapeared since arrest Dutroux ('96) First line Name Second line age third line date of dissapearing Marion Wagon 10 14/11/1996 Kevin Kobbe 17 03/12/1996 Corinne Sequelin 9 14/06/1997 Alexandre Decoster 10 ?/09/1997 Shak'Yena/Okwari Fortin ? 25/12/1997 Dolin-Dolcy Dwight 4 ?/07/1998 David Geebelen 11 11/11/1998 Mike 2 1998 Majana Rexhepi 17 06/12/1998 Saad Azouni 6 17/12/1998 Hassan Jallah 16 23/03/1999 Kiri Kasakova 17 08/06/1999 Remii Vannus 16 08/06/1999 Puia Marinescu 26/07/1999 Ludmilla Halushyna 14 23/08/1999 Simon Lembi 14 12/11/1999 Kurim Khan Arafat 17 21/04/2000 Singh Baldev 17 25/04/2000 Mimosa Gjergi 18 21/08/2000 Yasmina Lahlou 15 24/09/2000 Sesay Mumumatsu 16 11/10/2000 Ahmad Sharefi 12 18/10/2000 Mhamad Sharefi 15 18/10/2000 Magsad Sharefi 17 18/10/2000 Sathasivam Kumar 16 20/10/2000 Kawusu Sankoh 15 01/12/2000 Katrin Honert 15 01/01/2001 Kamute Baelo 14 05/03/2001 Catherine Muller 17 05/03/2001 Ramses El Bahri 16 17/03/2001 Merita Kodra 16 08/06/2001 AdelaÄde Ingels 17 19/06/2001 Ludivine Girard 16 04/07/2001 Kastriot Dauti 13 25/08/2001 Aido Dedja 15 25/08/2001 Lum Gega 15 29/08/2001 Armeno Brati 17 29/08/2001 Mohamed Saredo 15 10/09/2001 Koci Hekuran 15 15/09/2001 Sokol Krasniqi 16 15/09/2001 Adriana Shamata 16 15/09/2001 Ilona Blondeel 16 24/09/2001 Pascal Zimmer 6 30/09/2001 Tess Maksimovic 4 10/04/2002 Céline Spasic 16 08/05/2002 Adam Joao 12 18/05/2002 Mahendru Kumar 17 21/05/2002 Bera Ardion 13 30/05/2002 Adriana Fabiana 16 08/06/2002 Rebecca Amador 18 23/06/2002 Aria Armando 16 08/07/2002 Ellen Van De Wal 12 11/08/2002 Amet Kega 15 14/09/2002 Katania Kotaria 14 14/09/2002 Vladimir Zhubi 15 14/09/2002 Cyrielle Labas 16 20/09/2002 Gjurim Domi 17 14/10/2002 Martine Blondel 4 17/11/2002 Naim Nazifi 16 19/11/2002 Ali Shwan Ahmad 17 09/12/2002 Kasem Hasa 16 23/12/2002 Olivier Fischer 4 27/12/2002 Ardian Rexha 12 31/12/2002 Jahwed Walli 16 09/01/2003 Estelle Mouzin 9 09/01/2003 Mhamat Aadnan 17 14/01/2003 Hamsa Soran 16 14/01/2003 M Radosavljevic 15 18/01/2003 Audry Moura 18 23/01/2003 R Radosavljevic 17 08/02/2003 Francesco Polizi 17 10/02/2003 Lucie Dousset 16 07/03/2003 Valérie Rey 14 03/04/2003 Pierre De Saedeleer 11 05/04/2003 Severine Renaud 18 26/05/2003 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balschoiw 0 Posted March 4, 2004 Runaways included ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apollo 0 Posted March 4, 2004 Quote[/b] ]Runaways included ? Reported by the parents as Missing ,indeed we should take into consideration that a number of them may have just ran away.However i don't see kids of ages below 12 running away though ,maybe if they are 15 onwards.Another argument is that the number of yearly missing kids hasn't gone down since the Dutroux crises ,so even if 10% of these kids are abducted by Dutroux like pedo's ,it's untolerable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLight 0 Posted March 4, 2004 I find it pretty strange that some of you think it's unbelievable that Dutroux has been in prison for 7 years without officially being guilty... Damn ppl, think for 5 seconds, they found dead bodies in his garden, the girls were locked in his basement,... No matter what, you can't lock children in your basement and later on bury their dead bodies in your garden without being guilty in one way or the other... Sheesh... Whadya want us to do? The bastard already has way too much luxury(sp?)... Oh well... trials in belgium suck big time, but still... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redface 1 Posted June 4, 2004 WARNING! Belgium's public enemy #1 has managed to escape again! It is rumoured that the government, after many failed attempts, finally managed to stage this man's escape from prison, so as to put an end to a trial whose outcome was destined to cause public outcry. Beware, this man is extremely dangerous. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted June 4, 2004 Belgium's public enemy #1 has managed to escape again! It is rumoured that the government, after many failed attempts, finally managed to stage this man's escape from prison, so as to put an end to a trial whose outcome was destined to cause public outcry. Beware, this man is extremely dangerous. I don't understand. Is this a supposed to be a joke? Or is Belgium subcontracting out secuirty to Saudi special forces? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
