Army kills comanche!

[Koolkid101 0]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040223/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/helicopter_cancellation_3

Army to End Comanche Helicopter Program

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By ROBERT BURNS, AP Military Writer

WASHINGTON - The Army has decided to cancel its Comanche helicopter program, a multi-billion project to build a new-generation chopper for armed reconnaissance missions, officials said Monday.

AP Photo

Related Links

• RAH-66 Comanche (Boeing)

The contractors for Comanche are Boeing Co. and Sikorsky Aircraft Corp.

With about $8 billion already invested in the program, and the production line not yet started, the cancellation is one of the largest in the history of the Army. It follows the Pentagon (news - web sites)'s decision in 2002 to cancel the Crusader artillery program — against the wishes of Army leaders.

Pentagon officials said a public announcement was planned for Monday afternoon.

Loren Thompson, who follows aviation and other defense issues for the Lexington Institute think tank, said he believes the Army under new chief of staff Gen. Peter Schoomaker favors ending the Comanche program, even though the service had been counting on it to provide a new reconnaissance capability.

"The Bush administration has now killed the two biggest Army weapons programs it inherited from the Clinton administration," Thompson said, referring to the Crusader and Comanche.

Earlier this year the White House budget office asked the Pentagon to provide independent reviews of the Comanche and another expensive aviation program, the Air Force's F/A-22 Raptor fighter.

Although killing the Comanche project would save tens of billion in future costs, the cancellation decision is expected to require the Army to pay at least $2 billion in contract termination fees.

The Comanche program was started in 1983 and had survived many reviews. Initial production was scheduled to begin in 2006.

Bah they cancelled the pretty helicopter

[theavonlady 2]

I deleted my DKM Comanche the moment after I read this.

Everyone should do the same.

No?

[Scorpio 0]

That's a lot of money wasted. For nothing.

[Grizzlie 0]

@theavonlady

I will wait a bit. It can be same story like with B1. Election soon

[Gollum1 0]

Wow. Lots of money down the drain. But why did they suddenly cancel it, after spending so much money on what I thought was a needed and very advanced helicopter? Budget?

If that was the case, the air superiority fighter Raptor would be less useful in this "war on terror".

Well, that's this armchair general's opinion.

[svendejong 0]

Quote[/b] ]That's a lot of money wasted. For nothing

for nothing ?

no, i had loads of fun playing with the dkm version.

See al that 'wasted' money as a big investment in our ofp fun

[havocsquad 0]

The current administration is looking for good excuses to cut money whereever it can since they have come under huge fire from both democrats and their own GOP conservatives.  God forbid they give up their tax cuts, but lets screw the defense contractors good and say it was in the name of the U.S. fisical budget.

I think if a democrat won the November election in the U.S., he should reactive the Commanche program, and eliminate the Bush tax cuts.  I'm sure that would win a lot of support from blue collar workers, defense corporations, and the working poor since the tax cuts only hurt national security by putting a very widely ignored by the Bush administration spending limit for defense.

It looks like the current president wants the U.S. to fight enemies with stones and sticks.

If the current administration tries to kill the F/A-22 program, expect the White house to get a TON of political donator's asking for answers from mr Bush.

[Baphomet 0]

That's very United States government to run up a huge tab like that. Sure every country does it. Yes. I'm not United States biased or anything, but still. They've got a huge deficit... do they seem to care? No. They're like the brother of a bar owner who can run up as high a tab as they want without any reprecussions.

It does not surprise me that they scrapped it. For some reason the chopper didn't seem like it'd be that feasible. I'll bet you the V-22 will suffer the same fate.

Quote[/b] ]I deleted my DKM Comanche the moment after I read this.

Everyone should do the same.

No?

It was no more realistic as a concept as it is now that it's a dead project. =P

*goes back to strafing Tiger tanks with black baron's UFO.*

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Wrong helicopter, wrong war, wrong enemy, too expensive, too specialized, too thin-skinned, etc. Take your pick as to why the program was cancelled. Aside from it being yet another aviation marvel that will never see production, what other reason was there to continue the program? With the advent of UAVs and the increasing sophistication of satellite surveillance and programs like JSTARS, what real reason is there to continue pouring money into a reconaissance helicopter that, although incredible in its own right, has a job description that can be carried out by cheaper (or more versatile) platforms, in addition to being incredibly vulnerable in a battlefield environment despite the massive amount of funds expended to perfect its stealth components. Ultimately, the Commanche is a case of a program that was outpaced by the realities of what the military needs from its combat helicopters, and its cancellation is a textbook example of the Pentagon doing something it rarely does- cutting their losses while they still could.

[Donnervogel 0]

I never felt it was any good anyway.

[The Frenchman 0]

Why cant they cancel military projects that I hate?

*Cough* OICW, F22, UCAV and Land Warrior *Cough*  

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]Why cant they cancel military projects that I hate?

Because the Pentagon is an enormous bureaucracy that can't stop a project once it's started.

Quote[/b] ]*Cough* OICW, F22, UCAV and Land Warrior *Cough*

All filled with microchips .

[Sgt. Stryker 0]

you people over look the obvious, they droped the highly successful "new helicopter project" I wonder why that is....... Hmmmmm.... heres an idea, it has now become top secret cause they developed or discovered something about it so powerful it cant be know, remember the sr71? yeah, well there ya go.

[Harnu 0]

Why cant they cancel military projects that I hate?

*Cough* OICW, F22, UCAV and Land Warrior *Cough*  

Ya, I don't like Landwarrior or the OICW. But then again I haven't used them. So I'll just have to join the military and see if they implement it during my time.

[Balschoiw 0]

Before I condemn a weapon I want to test it. I was not happy about G36 also when I first tested it. Was used to 7.62 cal so gun first felt like a toy.

For the comanche. I don´t think that the helo has an existance as it´s role is overdone by non-personel military mechanisms. There is no justification for such a helo.

The Osprey is a dead on arrival plane. It will never make it over the years. It bears to much risks and doesn´t work right.

I tried to fly it in a simulator the XPlane simulator that actually simulates planes like they are. Closest to reality I know. The osprey is no good plane. I wouldnt be unhappy to see it cancelled. That will certainly save some lives.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Yeah, but the USMC were putting their money on that. Without an OSPREY, they have to continue to rely on CH-53 and the UH-1N.....

[Milkman 1]

What a waste, we need a replacement for the apache very badly.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

What a waste, we need a replacement for the apache very badly.

Erm, Comanche was meant to replace Kiowa and Cobra and COMPLEMENT the Apache??

[hellfish6 7]

What a waste, we need a replacement for the apache very badly.

What's wrong with the Apache? It's still the most capable attack helicopter in the world. The AH-64D is only a couple of years old.

The RAH-66, like the F-22 and the Crusader, was a weapon designed for the Cold War. The development cycle was just very, very long and it's very hard to kill these programs once they get started.

Hopefully the F-22 will be next. We're better off keeping the F-15s until the JSFs come on line.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Yeah, but the USMC were putting their money on that. Without an OSPREY, they have to continue to rely on CH-53 and the UH-1N

Yes but isn´t it better to cancel a program that has shown not to work than to force it through without eliminating the risks just for the sake of it ?

Cancel it if it doesn´t work and look for something else.

[denoir 0]

Tex is right, with more advanced satellite reconnaissance and better UAV:s, the need for the Comanche is limited. It is however built on a huge assumption: air superiority.

In a large scale conflict, you simply don't have enough birds to cover all the points of interests. Furthermore if there is a cloud cover, then satellites are of limited usefulness. IR has its limitations. If you are up against a semi-decent integrated defense system, then UAV:s are useless. Choppers still have the advantage of using terrain for cover.

So, the bottom line is, if future wars are going to be like the Iraq war, then there is little use for the Comanche. It does however cripple the US capability of waging a war against countries with more modern systems.

[hellfish6 7]

I think the Corps should use the HH-60H if it's really worried about the CH-46s and they need a quick solution. They're already designed to be operated off of ships, can carry 22 men in a pinch, sling load a HMMWV and there is no shortage of spare parts.

I think if the Osprey really is a danger, the Corps might want to take a look at the NH-90 for a near-future medium lift copter. It's new, it's proven, and IIRC it's got better performance than the Blackhawk.

Then again, I've seen pics of the Marines deploying from mercenary Mi-17s, so maybe that can be an option in the future.

[Milkman 1]

Just my opinion, but I don't think the apache (Not longbow!) can match up to a Ka-52 or Mi-28.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Just my opinion, but I don't think the apache (Not longbow!) can match up to a Ka-52 or Mi-28.

Helos usually don´t dogfight

[hellfish6 7]

Just my opinion, but I don't think the apache (Not longbow!) can match up to a Ka-52 or Mi-28.

So are you suggesting that your opinion determine American Army procurement policy?

Nobody in the world flies Mi-28s or KA-52s in any significant number, and they won't for years. Buying 650 helicopters that are redundant is not a solution.