Us presidential election 2004

[Schoeler 0]

You really are a mindless republican troll aren't you?

I've done what you asked and posted kerrys records even though it would have been simple enough to look up the records yourself.

You HAVE NOT done the same for Bush as requested because you are too chickenshit to admit Bush has hidden his entire record of military service.

It's easy to sling mud at Kerry and parrot the GOP talking points, but get into a real argument where you have to supply the burden of proof to back up your claims and you cut and run.

Either quit sounding  like a retarded parrot and repeating the republican propagandistic mantras that have been given to you and that your opinion entirely consists of, or go away.

I'm done "arguing" with you.  I give you facts, I give you evidence, you give me one-liners that need no substantiation and then you change the subject.

I think you are an intellectual coward.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]You really are a mindless republican troll aren't you?

I've done what you asked and posted kerrys records even though it would have been simple enough to look up the records yourself.

You HAVE NOT done the same for Bush as requested because you are too chickenshit to admit Bush has hidden his entire record of military service.

It's easy to sling mud at Kerry and parrot the GOP talking points, but get into a real argument where you have to supply the burden of proof to back up your claims and you cut and run.

Either quit sounding  like a retarded parrot and repeating the republican propagandistic mantras that have been given to you and that your opinion entirely consists of, or go away.

I'm done "arguing" with you.  I give you facts, I give you evidence, you give me one-liners that need no substantiation and then you change the subject.

I think you are an intellectual coward.

Is Bush's time in the NG one of his center pieces of his campaign?

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a39ea05224b3e.htm

http://news.findlaw.com/legalnews/lit/election2004/docs.html#ltbush

[Schoeler 0]

I mean the entire record, not just points statements.

I served in the Reserves, I know what a record looks like.

You were so adamant about Kerry releasing all his records including medical, I'm going to be equally adamant about Bush releasing his.

I'm still waiting.

[ralphwiggum 6]

.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/18/bush.wisconsin.ap/index.html

Quote[/b] ]CHIPPEWA FALLS, Wisconsin (AP) -- Hoping to gather enough support in northwestern Wisconsin to turn the state his way in November, President Bush said Wednesday he will push for extra education benefits for National Guard members and reservists.

Men and women who have "put their jobs on hold" to serve their nation deserve support in return, Bush told hundreds of supporters.

Bush said he would increase monthly education benefits for National Guard members and reservists who have been on active duty for more than 90 consecutive days.

one word: deficit.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]You were so adamant about Kerry releasing all his records including medical, I'm going to be equally adamant about Bush releasing his.

Bush folks said that all his military and medical records have been released and not holding anything back...

http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1676081

Quote[/b] ]one word: deficit.

Kerry: Deficit

Bush: Deficit

[Schoeler 0]

Quote[/b] ]You were so adamant about Kerry releasing all his records including medical, I'm going to be equally adamant about Bush releasing his.

Bush folks said that all his military and medical records have been released and not holding anything back...

http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1676081

Quote[/b] ]one word: deficit.

Kerry: Deficit

Bush: Deficit

Better, but all those records show is that Bush was paid. They don't include officer fitreps that verify if he was really there or not. Not surprisingly, no one seving on the base at that time remembers Lt. Bush. They remember hearing that he was coming, but they don't remember ever actually meeting him, seeing him or flying with him.

Washington Post Article

Capitol Hill Blue Article

Reuters Article

So the question remains, where was Bush?

Where are the records that indicate he was at his post?

[walker 0]

Hi all

Let us remember what we need to discuss are the issues.

The issues are the fight against corporate crime, Economics, Foreign Relations and  Defense.

On all these issues George Bush Junior has proved himself a miserable failure.

Corporate Crime

In four years of George Bush Junior in the White House Big Corporate Business has become a byword for corruption in the US with TBA having links to the business ventures of crooks and fools one after another. Dodgy Dick Cheney's Halliburton that went bankrupt under his leadership bailed out by a 7 billion dollar and rising no competitive bid contract. There are documents that point to Dodgy Dick Cheney having had a hand in that deal but they dont want us to see the documents. Halliburton has spent its time in Iraq conning and overcharging the US tax payer and Uncle Sam's Soldiers by millions at a time. Yet more big corporate corruption sponsored by the NeoConMen

George Bush Junior who has a criminal record and a long record of failed and bankrupt businesses has links to Kenneth lay and others in the corrupt ENRON company. The George Bush Junior 2000 election campaign received millions in contributions from ENRON the company which conned the Californians out of billions in it's fake power shortage. Members of TBA and their alliesmet with these criminals before and after the news of their big corruption broke they have censored what they talked about. One would expect little else from a bunch of NeoConMen.

On Economics

The US stock exchange has taken its biggest downturns ever under George Bush Junior. This is because as you would expect under the leader ship of a failed business man George Bush Junior has seen its currency reach toilet paper levels, its unemployment levels rise as they have not since the depresion, middle class wages are in a never ending downward spiral.

And then there is the question of the big fake oil shortage that has seen gas prices at the pump shooting through the roof George Bush Junior's buddies in Enron conned the Californians out of billions and gave millions to George Bush Junior's 2000 campaign and now George Bush Junior's Oil speculator budies are doing the same to the whole USA. The price of oil does not need to be so high it is pushed that way by a fake oil chrisis just like Enron's fake power shortage. The Only people that are benefiting are George Bush Junior's buddies the Saudi family, the Bin Laden family, George Bush Junior's oil family, Dodgy Dick Cheney's Oil buddies, TBA's NeoConMen one and all.

On Foreign Relations

The USA has made more enemies and lost more friends since the Iraq war than anyone could have thought possable after 9/11. George Bush Junior has turned so many against the US that Castro goes to sleep laughing, Iraq's Mullahs sit quietly watching the US waste its army on their enemies, Korea has felt so strong under the weakend US millitary it has anounced nukes and misilles and is prepaired to sell them to the highest bidder while watching the US retreat from the peninsular with tail tucked between its legs. That weakness is something China is not missing and it looks now to taking over Taiwan.

Mean while Europe by turns shakes it head in disbelief and looks askance at US foreign policy that is tuning the world into a more and more dangerous place.

On defense

Before 9/11George Bush Junior spent the first part of his period in office not listening to intelligence reports intstead he was on holliday.

On 9/11 He froze in Fear was read a book about a goat and in 34 minutes did not issue a single order for the nations defense.

After 9/11 George Bush Junior because he "couldnt be bothered swating flies" and he wanted to pretent he could be the man he made up a fantasy enemy that the army could beat so he could get on an aircraft carrier and say "job done" NOT.

Kind Regards Walker

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Corporate Crime

Maybe you can help me, Walker. I remember reading about corporate prosecution is up compared to the Clinton years. However, I cannot remember the source. Maybe you can point me where to find the corporate prosecution stats are.

[walker 0]

Hi billybob2002

I am saying the corporate crime is up under George Bush Junior. If more of the criminals are being caught that proves that the laws which came in under Clinton are catching them despite Gorge Bush Junior trying to resind them. It proves the FBI and the Police are successfully using Clinton's laws.

Of course we then have the problem that TBA then try to let them off in court. Wittness the latest TBA get off jail free card to Halliburton. TBA has long had friendships with the likes or the corrupt people in ENRON.

Kind Regards Walker

[Akira 0]

Kerry is running for the president and his record should be looked at like Bush. Sure you can find the others but it will not change the truth.

Why don't I see you as adamant to see Cheney's records? He is second in command (some say first in command) and yet you don't worry about his records despite the fact he has been to the hospital on two highly publized heart related visits.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Kerry: Deficit

Bush: Deficit

correction:

Kerry: could be in deficit

Bush: already in deficit

[walker 0]

Hi all

Quote[/b] ]Records Counter A Critic Of Kerry Fellow Skipper's Citation Refers To Enemy Fire

By Michael Dobbs

Washington Post Staff Writer

Thursday, August 19, 2004; Page A01

Newly obtained military records of one of Sen. John F. Kerry's most vocal critics, who has accused the Democratic presidential candidate of lying about his wartime record to win medals, contradict his own version of events.

In newspaper interviews and a best-selling book, Larry Thurlow, who commanded a Navy Swift boat alongside Kerry in Vietnam, has strongly disputed Kerry's claim that the Massachusetts Democrat's boat came under fire during a mission in Viet Cong-controlled territory on March 13, 1969. Kerry won a Bronze Star for his actions that day.

But Thurlow's military records, portions of which were released yesterday to The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act, contain several references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at "all units" of the five-boat flotilla. Thurlow won his own Bronze Star that day, and the citation praises him for providing assistance to a damaged Swift boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him."  

Thurlow now joins the doctor who was not there, the REMF Lt. Cmdr. George M. Elliott, sat on his butt reading reports about the incident from his base in the Gulf of Thailand, and people who were nerver on the boat as proven fantasists.

Seems like these guys dont know truth from fantasy. Any one who supports them I have a marvelous suit of clothes to sell you it is invisable to people with below average IQs so you will be able to see it but all them dumb people who dont agree with you wont be able to see how fine it is, it is also as light as feather so you wont even feel your self wearing it. Pay me $1000 and I will sell you some.

I wonder what the next fairytale will be from the swift boat fantsists? George Bush Junior turned up with his underpants over his trousers and his blainkie flowing from his shoulders to rescue all the USA's Bosnia MIAs from the clutches of the wicked witch of the east.

Kind Regards Walker

[Winters 1]

Hi Walker,

I bet if those guys were around in the 60's they would have said Kennedy crashed his PT Boat on a sea turtle while drunk.

[walker 0]

Hi all

I am glad to see John F. Kerry has decided to call George Bush Junior to account on his fantasist front organisation.

Quote[/b] ]Kerry Accuses Bush Of 'Dirty Work'

(CBS/AP) John Kerry accused President Bush on Thursday of relying on front groups to challenge his record of valor in Vietnam, asserting, "He wants them to do his dirty work."

Defending his record, the Democratic presidential candidate said, "Thirty years ago, official Navy reports documented my service in Vietnam and awarded me the Silver Star, the Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts."

"Thirty years ago, this was the plain truth. It still is. And I still carry the shrapnel in my leg from a wound in Vietnam."

Kerry received five medals for his service in Vietnam a generation ago, but his record has come under campaign challenge in television commercials aired by "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth," funded by supporters of the president.

Mr. Bush and the White House have refused to condemn the ads, despite calls to do so — from Sen. John McCain, a Republican who is a former Vietnam prisoner of war, as well as from Democrats.

In a rapid response to Kerry's speech, Bush campaign spokesman Steve Schmidt said the charge "leveled by Senator Kerry is absolutely and completely false."

"The Bush campaign has never and will never question John Kerry's service in Vietnam. The president has referred to John Kerry's service as noble service," the Bush spokesman said.

At the same time, neither the president nor any of his spokesmen condemned the ad.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/08/19/politics/main637003.shtml

How someone; who admits he dodged the vietnam war by getting into the National Guard, prefering that to blowing out his eardrum to get out of the draft on medical grounds; has the afrontery to use a bunch of fantasists to fight his campaign for him goes beyond my understanding. These are the acts of a coward.

Put up or shut up George Bush Junior where are your medals where is your war service record.

Kind Regards Walker

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Kind Regards Walker

It is time for the rebuttal:

Quote[/b] ]For Immediate Release August 19, 2004

Statement By Swift Boat Veterans for Truth Member Larry Thurlow

I am convinced that the language used in my citation for a Bronze Star was language taken directly from John Kerry's report which falsely described the action on the Bay Hap River as action that saw small arms fire and automatic weapons fire from both banks of the river.

To this day, I can say without a doubt in my mind, along with other accounts from my shipmates-there was no hostile enemy fire directed at my boat or at any of the five boats operating on the river that day.

I submitted no paperwork for a medal nor did I file an after action report describing the incident. To my knowledge, John Kerry was the only officer who filed a report describing his version of the incidents that occurred on the river that day.

It was not until I had left the Navy-approximately three months after I left the service-that I was notified that I was to receive a citation for my actions on that day.

I believed then as I believe now that I received my Bronze Star for my efforts to rescue the injured crewmen from swift boat number three and to conduct damage control to prevent that boat from sinking. My boat and several other swift boats went to the aid of our fellow swift boat sailors whose craft was adrift and taking on water. We provided immediate rescue and damage control to prevent boat three from sinking and to offer immediate protection and comfort to the injured crew.

After the mine exploded, leaving swift boat three dead in the water, John Kerry's boat, which was on the opposite side of the river, fled the scene. US Army Special Forces officer Jim Rassmann, who was on Kerry's boat at the time, fell off the boat and into the water. Kerry's boat returned several minutes later-under no hail of enemy gunfire-to retrieve Rassmann from the river only seconds before another boat was going to pick him up.

Kerry campaign spokespersons have conflicting accounts of this incident-the latest one being that Kerry's boat did leave but only briefly and returned under withering enemy fire to rescue Mr. Rassmann. However, none of the other boats on the river that day reported enemy fire nor was anyone wounded by small arms action. The only damage on that day was done to boat three-a result of the underwater mine. None of the other swift boats received damage from enemy gunfire.

And in a new development, Kerry campaign officials are now finally acknowledging that while Kerry's boat left the scene, none of the other boats on the river ever left the damaged swift boat. This is a direct contradiction to previous accounts made by Jim Rassmann in the Oregonian newspaper and a direct contradiction to the "No Man Left Behind" theme during the Democratic National Convention.

These ever changing accounts of the Bay Hap River incident by Kerry campaign officials leave me asking one question. If no one ever left the scene of the Bay Hap River incident, how could anyone be left behind?

John Kennedy: A um ah, Ich bin ein Berliner.

Grampa Simpson : He's a Nazi, get him.

At least they got Kerry and co. to admit that his legendary Christmas eve (?) story did not happened but now it happened on another day.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]I am glad to see John F. Kerry has decided to call George Bush Junior to account on his fantasist front organisation.

Moveon.org and the other "527" groups must be doing the dirty work for Kerry...

[billybob2002 0]

Zell Miller (D) is the keynote speaker for the RNC.

http://www.yahoo.com/_ylh=X3....4

Quote[/b] ]

Pro-Bush Democrat Keynote Speaker for Republicans

18 minutes ago Add Politics to My Yahoo!

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Retiring Democratic Sen. Zell Miller (news, bio, voting record) of Georgia, who has backed President Bush (news - web sites) for re-election, will deliver the keynote address at the Republican National Convention, Republican officials said on Thursday.

Miller, who supported Bush's tax cuts and has consistently voted with the Republican Senate majority against his own party, will speak on Wednesday Sept. 1, the third night of the New York convention, said Ed Gillespie, chairman of the Republican National Committee (news - web sites).

The keynote address at the national political convention is usually given by a major party figure or a rising political star.

The Democrats at their convention in Boston last month gave the job to Barack Obama, a young, black state legislator who is expected to win back the U.S. Senate seat from Illinois from the Republicans.

Miller himself was a Democratic keynote speaker at the 1992 convention that nominated Bill Clinton (news - web sites) for the presidency.

The 72-year-old senator is retiring from the Senate at the end of his term in January. He served as Georgia governor from 1990 to 1998 and was appointed to the Senate in 2000 following the death of Republican Paul Coverdell and later won the election to fill out the term.

[Schoeler 0]

Quote[/b] ]Kind Regards Walker

It is time for the rebuttal:

Quote[/b] ]For Immediate Release August 19, 2004

Statement By Swift Boat Veterans for Truth Member Larry Thurlow

I am convinced that the language used in my citation for a Bronze Star was language taken directly from John Kerry's report which falsely described the action on the Bay Hap River as action that saw small arms fire and automatic weapons fire from both banks of the river.

To this day, I can say without a doubt in my mind, along with other accounts from my shipmates-there was no hostile enemy fire directed at my boat or at any of the five boats operating on the river that day.

I submitted no paperwork for a medal nor did I file an after action report describing the incident. To my knowledge, John Kerry was the only officer who filed a report describing his version of the incidents that occurred on the river that day.

It was not until I had left the Navy-approximately three months after I left the service-that I was notified that I was to receive a citation for my actions on that day.

I believed then as I believe now that I received my Bronze Star for my efforts to rescue the injured crewmen from swift boat number three and to conduct damage control to prevent that boat from sinking. My boat and several other swift boats went to the aid of our fellow swift boat sailors whose craft was adrift and taking on water. We provided immediate rescue and damage control to prevent boat three from sinking and to offer immediate protection and comfort to the injured crew.

After the mine exploded, leaving swift boat three dead in the water, John Kerry's boat, which was on the opposite side of the river, fled the scene. US Army Special Forces officer Jim Rassmann, who was on Kerry's boat at the time, fell off the boat and into the water. Kerry's boat returned several minutes later-under no hail of enemy gunfire-to retrieve Rassmann from the river only seconds before another boat was going to pick him up.

Kerry campaign spokespersons have conflicting accounts of this incident-the latest one being that Kerry's boat did leave but only briefly and returned under withering enemy fire to rescue Mr. Rassmann. However, none of the other boats on the river that day reported enemy fire nor was anyone wounded by small arms action. The only damage on that day was done to boat three-a result of the underwater mine. None of the other swift boats received damage from enemy gunfire.

And in a new development, Kerry campaign officials are now finally acknowledging that while Kerry's boat left the scene, none of the other boats on the river ever left the damaged swift boat. This is a direct contradiction to previous accounts made by Jim Rassmann in the Oregonian newspaper and a direct contradiction to the "No Man Left Behind" theme during the Democratic National Convention.

These ever changing accounts of the Bay Hap River incident by Kerry campaign officials leave me asking one question. If no one ever left the scene of the Bay Hap River incident, how could anyone be left behind?

John Kennedy: A um ah, Ich bin ein Berliner.

Grampa Simpson : He's a Nazi, get him.

At least they got Kerry and co. to admit that his legendary Christmas eve (?) story did not happened but now it happened on another day.

You're telling me Thurlow never read the citiation for his own bronze star?

This means he was perfectly happy with the account saying he was under fire that led to him recieving the medal and all those years proudly wore a medal he was awarded under false pretenses?

You can't have it both ways, either he earned the medal under fire and is lying about the nature of the engagement, or he recieved a medal he didn't deserve and lied for 30 years about why he got it.

Either way, this guy is a lying asshole and anyone who believes him is a stupid asshole.

What's more credible, applying the principle of Ockham's Razor that the simplest explanation tends to be the right one:

1) The Navy awarded medals to two men after doing extensive investigations before handing out the decorations and was fooled by John Kerry into thinking these men deserved them.  All of the men testifying to the fact that Kerry deserved the medal as did Thurlow are now lying to serve John Kerry's narrow interests, and that the Swiftboat Vets for Truth group, despite the fact that it has been shown the bulk of whom did not serve with John Kerry and among whom are many noted republicans and also whose stories have now largely been disproven are absolutely not now serving some narrow interest.

or

2)Kerry and Thurlow recieved fire during the same engagement in Vietnam, were put in for and justly deserved a medal and Thurlow and others are now trying to discount that fact to smear John Kerry.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]I am glad to see John F. Kerry has decided to call George Bush Junior to account on his fantasist front organisation.

Moveon.org and the other "527" groups must be doing the dirty work for Kerry...

kinda funny that all those negative commercials by GOPs have 'I'm George Bush and I approve message.' in the begining.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]You're telling me Thurlow never read the citiation for his own bronze star?

This means he was perfectly happy with the account saying he was under fire that led to him recieving the medal and all those years proudly wore a medal he was awarded under false pretenses?

Quote[/b] ]It was not until I had left the Navy-approximately three months after I left the service-that I was notified that I was to receive a citation for my actions on that day.

I believed then as I believe now that I received my Bronze Star for my efforts to rescue the injured crewmen from swift boat number three and to conduct damage control to prevent that boat from sinking. My boat and several other swift boats went to the aid of our fellow swift boat sailors whose craft was adrift and taking on water. We provided immediate rescue and damage control to prevent boat three from sinking and to offer immediate protection and comfort to the injured crew.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]Retiring Democratic Sen. Zell Miller (news, bio, voting record) of Georgia

GEorgian...must be a closet GOP.

wonder if Arnold is showing up for RNC?

[Schoeler 0]

Quote[/b] ]You're telling me Thurlow never read the citiation for his own bronze star?

This means he was perfectly happy with the account saying he was under fire that led to him recieving the medal and all those years proudly wore a medal he was awarded under false pretenses?

Quote[/b] ]It was not until I had left the Navy-approximately three months after I left the service-that I was notified that I was to receive a citation for my actions on that day.

I believed then as I believe now that I received my Bronze Star for my efforts to rescue the injured crewmen from swift boat number three and to conduct damage control to prevent that boat from sinking. My boat and several other swift boats went to the aid of our fellow swift boat sailors whose craft was adrift and taking on water. We provided immediate rescue and damage control to prevent boat three from sinking and to offer immediate protection and comfort to the injured crew.

Yet he did nothing to change the report or see if maybe the Navy thought doing damage control on a boat under non-threatening circumstances still merited a decoration as high as the bronze star?

I can tell you two things about your willingness to accept this statement:

1)You never served in the Navy

and

2)You'll believe anything the Bush people tell you even in the face of obvious contradictory evidence.

Listen, with regard to point two, George Bush has asked me to sell you a bridge and some land in Florida. Cheap too! He needs the money to fund his anti-Kerry ads in the upcoming months. Just send me $5000 via pm, I'll see to it he gets the money.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]GEorgian...must be a closet GOP.

I think he said he never be a republican and is just worried where his party is going...

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]I can tell you two things about your willingness to accept this statement:

1)You never served in the Navy

and

2)You'll believe anything the Bush people tell you even in the face of obvious contradictory evidence.

I was posting his statement and he has right to respond. I see you think Swift folks are apart of the Bush "team". I guess you follow anything Kerry says without any proof.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]GEorgian...must be a closet GOP.

I think he said he never be a republican and is just worried where his party is going...

like Sen. McCain? the one who is now branded as a traitor?

anyways, wasn't Iraq war center piece of Bush's releection campaign?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004....cnn=yes

Quote[/b] ]PATRAS, Greece -- Iraqi midfielder Salih Sadir scored a goal here on Wednesday night, setting off a rousing celebration among the 1,500 Iraqi soccer supporters at Pampeloponnisiako Stadium. Though Iraq -- the surprise team of the Olympics -- would lose to Morocco 2-1, it hardly mattered as the Iraqis won Group D with a 2-1 record and now face Australia in the quarterfinals on Sunday.

Afterward, Sadir had a message for U.S. president George W. Bush, who is using the Iraqi Olympic team in his latest re-election campaign advertisements.

In those spots, the flags of Iraq and Afghanistan appear as a narrator says, "At this Olympics there will be two more free nations -- and two fewer terrorist regimes."

"Iraq as a team does not want Mr. Bush to use us for the presidential campaign," Sadir told SI.com through a translator, speaking calmly and directly. "He can find another way to advertise himself."

Ahmed Manajid, who played as a midfielder on Wednesday, had an even stronger response when asked about Bush's TV advertisement. "How will he meet his god having slaughtered so many men and women?" Manajid told me. "He has committed so many crimes."

The Bush campaign was contacted about the Iraqi soccer player's statements, but has yet to respond.

To a man, members of the Iraqi Olympic delegation say they are glad that former Olympic committee head Uday Hussein, who was responsible for the serial torture of Iraqi athletes and was killed four months after the U.S.-led coalition invaded Iraq in March 2003, is no longer in power.

But they also find it offensive that Bush is using their team for his own gain when they do not support his administration's actions in Iraq. "My problems are not with the American people," says Iraqi soccer coach Adnan Hamad. "They are with what America has done in Iraq: destroy everything. The American army has killed so many people in Iraq. What is freedom when I go to the [national] stadium and there are shootings on the road?"