Us presidential election 2004

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]I do howver believe that any rational person can see that, so in reality I think that the swift boats are doing Kerry a favour by showing the ugly face of the Bush fanatics.

Maybe they are showing a ugly face but they are successfully killing Kerry's veteran vote.

[walker 0]

Quote[/b] ]I do howver believe that any rational person can see that, so in reality I think that the swift boats are doing Kerry a favour by showing the ugly face of the Bush fanatics.

Maybe they are showing a ugly face but they are successfully killing Kerry's veteran vote.

Hi billybob2002

The news I am hearing is that is turning veterans against the Vietnam War Dodger George Bush Junior.

Many republican veterans are quiting or threatening to quit the republican party because they find the fact that a Vietnam War Dodger George Bush Junior is besmirching a war hero, one of their own, their own medals and citations, and the American Flag totaly disgusting.

Please pray continue with your fairy tales.

Backlash is a B*tch

Kind Reagards walker

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Hi billybob2002

The news I am hearing is that is turning veterans against the Vietnam War Dodger George Bush Junior.

Many republican veterans are quiting or threatening to quit the republican party because they find the fact that a Vietnam War Dodger George Bush Junior is besmirching a war hero, one of their own, their own medals and citations, and the American Flag totaly disgusting.

Please pray continue with your fairy tales.

Backlash is a B*tch

Kind Reagards walker

http://www.turkishpress.com/turkishpress/news.asp?ID=24948

Quote[/b] ]

Military Veteran Support For Kerry Drops Dramatically: Poll

AFP: 8/19/2004

WASHINGTON, Aug 19 (AFP) - Democratic presidential hopeful John Kerry's support among military veterans has deteriorated as his Vietnam War record has come under attack, according to a poll released Thursday.

Just after last month's Democratic National Convention, during which Kerry played up his credential as a decorated Vietnam veteran, the Massachusetts senator was tied with President George W. Bush at 46 percent each among veterans, according to the CBS News Poll.

But recent television spots accusing Kerry of lying about his Vietnam War record may have contributed to a dramatic drop in support among veterans for the Democrat, CBS said.

Bush now leads Kerry 55 to 37 percent among veterans.

Among registered voters, Kerry has a razor-thin, 46 to 45 percent lead over the Republican president as neither candidate has been able to break away in the polls.

Kerry led Bush 48-43 percent after last month's Democratic National Convention in Boston, Massachusetts, where the party nominated Kerry as its official candidate.

As Kerry and Bush have exchanged blows, registered voters say the two candidates nearly spend as much time attacking each other as they are talking about issues for the November 2 election.

The poll showed 44 percent believe Bush is spending more time explaining his plans as president, while 43 percent say he is mostly attacking his opponent.

As for Kerry, 47 percent say he is mostly talking about his White House plans, while 42 percent say he spends more time attacking the president.

Bush's approval rating and his handling of Iraq increased by two percentage points but remained low.

The poll showed that 46 percent approve of his job performance today against 44 percent in July.

Forty percent now approve his handling of Iraq, up from 38 percent in July.

The poll was conducted August 15-18 among 1,009 Americans, including 835 registered voters. The margin of error is plus or minus three percentage points.

Just my little fairy tale...

Did you heard about the veterans that turned their backs to Kerry when he spoke at the VFW convention?

[walker 0]

Hi all

Kerry: Bush Campaign Busted Passing Out 'Swift Boat Veterans for Bush' Flyer

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?ReleaseID=34996

Gotcha!

Kind Regards Walker

[Badgerboy 0]

All this aside, Billybob, I assume your with me when I say the entire US election system is a complete mess of interests, lobbies and childish slander.

It's going to reach crisis point soon (Maybe a few more terms), and then things are going to start breaking down.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]All this aside, Billybob, I assume your with me when I say the entire US election system is a complete mess of interests, lobbies and childish slander.

It's going to reach crisis point soon (Maybe a few more terms), and then things are going to start breaking down.

Yep, agree the system has a lot of interest groups (and yes, Kerry got interest groups supporting him) and can be childish at the times. However, I do not think that the "system" will break down but, likely, be modified (i.e. new rules for 527 groups after this current election).

[walker 0]

Hi All

The Vietnam War Dodger George Bush Junior and his dwindling band of supporters want people to discuss fairy tales not the real issues of the election but these are the issues they are most afraid of.

The Economy

They dare not discuss the economy because that is full of monsters like lots of unemployment, a dollar that is worth les and less, debt up to your ears, the maxed out credit card deficit, gas prices at the pump that are higher than ever etc.

Education

With college fees so high and rising that many middle class families cannot send their kids to college, the Vietnam War Dodger George Bush Junior and his cronies in TBA dont want you discussing the fact John F. Kerry has offered a fully refundable College Opportunity Tax credit on up to $4,000 of tuition for every year of college and offer aid to states that keep tuitions down. And he will launch a new effort to ensure that all of our workers can get the technical skills and advanced training they need.

Iraq

They dare not discuss Iraq and National defense because the war is looking very bad and lots people have died and it was all a mistake anyway. There was no WMD. Iraq had nothinhg to do with 9/11 and Al Qaida. They don't want people to discussing that TBA and the Vietnam War Dodger George Bush Junior went out and found lawyers to say it was OK to torture people and rape little boys and that after it was done they got caught.

Health

They dare not discuss health because so many don't have any health insurance any longer; being unemployed or or too low paid and it reminds everyone the economy is going to hell in a hen basket.

Corporate Crime

They dare not discuss crime because that reminds everyone that the Vietnam War Dodger George Bush Junior has a criminal record and is a friend of Kenneth Lay and others in ENRON who gave the Vietnam War Dodger George Bush Junior millions of dollars for his 2000 election campaign and that Dodgy Dick Cheney gave them an energy deal that allowed them to con the people of California out of billions of dollars.

Homeland Defense

They cannot discuss homeland defense because that reminds everyone that on 9/11 when the Vietnam War Dodger George Bush Junior was told "America is Under Attack" he froze in fear and spent 10 minutes having kiddies read him a fairy tale about a goat then he spent 20 minutes taking a photo op.

And in the 34 minutes from first being told "America is Under Attack" to the aircraft hitting the countries chief defense site the Pentagon in the nations capitol Washington the Vietnam War Dodger George Bush Junior did not issue a single order for the nations defense. Not One.

Kind Regards Walker

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]rape little boys

Do you really believe that walker?

[walker 0]

Hi billybob2002

I apologize to you and the rest of the forum for this graphic testimony from here. If you are easily disturbed stop reading now.

Quote[/b] ]Hersh: Children sodomized at Abu Ghraib, on tape

After Donald Rumsfeld testified on the Hill about Abu Ghraib in May, there was talk of more photos and video in the Pentagon's custody more horrific than anything made public so far. "If these are released to the public, obviously it's going to make matters worse," Rumsfeld said. Since then, the Washington Post has disclosed some new details and images of abuse at the prison. But if Seymour Hersh is right, it all gets much worse.

Hersh gave a speech last week to the ACLU making the charge that children were sodomized in front of women in the prison, and the Pentagon has tape of it. The speech was first reported in a New York Sun story last week, which was in turn posted on Jim Romenesko's media blog, and now EdCone.com and other blogs are linking to the video. We transcribed the critical section here (it starts at about 1:31:00 into the ACLU video.) At the start of the transcript here, you can see how Hersh was struggling over what he should say:

"Debating about it, ummm ... Some of the worst things that happened you don't know about, okay? Videos, um, there are women there. Some of you may have read that they were passing letters out, communications out to their men. This is at Abu Ghraib ... The women were passing messages out saying 'Please come and kill me, because of what's happened' and basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys, children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. And the worst above all of that is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror. It's going to come out."

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2004/07/15/hersh/?source=RSS

Quote[/b] ]"I saw [name blacked out] fucking a kid, his age would be about 15-18 years. The kid was hurting very bad and they covered all the doors with sheets. Then when I heard the screaming I climbed the door because on top it wasn't covered and I saw [blacked out], who was wearing the military uniform putting his dick in the little kid's ass," Mr Hilas told military investigators. "I couldn't see the face of the kid because his face wasn't in front of the door. And the female soldier was taking pictures."

It is not clear from the testimony whether the rapist de scribed by Mr Hilas was working for a private contractor or was a US soldier. A private contractor was arrested after the Taguba investigation was completed, but was freed when it was discovered the army had no jurisdiction over him under military or Iraqi law.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1222348,00.html

Walker

[Bernadotte 0]

The reason Kerry is acting now (finally) because he is starting to lose the veteran vote.

Lose the veteran vote to whom?  ...A draft dodging coke fiend who couldn't tear himself away from reading The Pet Goat when told his nation was under attack.  What planet are you on?

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Hi billybob2002

I apologize to you and the rest of the forum for this graphic testimony from here. If you are easily disturbed stop reading now.

You are missing the point. Do you believe that TBA supported (OKed) the sodomizing of kids?

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]All this aside, Billybob, I assume your with me when I say the entire US election system is a complete mess of interests, lobbies and childish slander.

It's going to reach crisis point soon (Maybe a few more terms), and then things are going to start breaking down.

Yep, agree the system has a lot of interest groups (and yes, Kerry got interest groups supporting him) and can be childish at the times. However, I do not think that the "system" will break down but, likely, be modified (i.e. new rules for 527 groups after this current election).

notice how you are talking about Kerry, but not Bush?

[walker 0]

Hi billybob2002

Quote[/b] ]Memo on Torture Draws Focus to Bush

Aide Says President Set Guidelines for Interrogations, Not Specific Techniques

The disclosure that the Justice Department advised the White House in 2002 that the torture of al Qaeda terrorist suspects might be legally defensible has focused new attention on the role President Bush played in setting the rules for interrogations in the war on terrorism.

White House press secretary Scott McClellan said yesterday that Bush set broad guidelines, rather than dealing with specific techniques. "While we will seek to gather intelligence from al Qaeda terrorists who seek to inflict mass harm on the American people, the president expects that we do so in a way that is consistent with our laws," McClellan said.

White House Counsel Alberto R. Gonzales said in a May 21 interview with The Washington Post: "Anytime a discussion came up about interrogations with the president, . . . the directive was, 'Make sure it is lawful. Make sure it meets all of our obligations under the Constitution, U.S. federal statutes and applicable treaties.' "

An Aug. 1, 2002, memo from the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel, addressed to Gonzales, said that torturing suspected al Qaeda members abroad "may be justified" and that international laws against torture "may be unconstitutional if applied to interrogation" conducted against suspected terrorists. My use of bold: Walker

The document provided legal guidance for the CIA, which crafted new, more aggressive techniques for its operatives in the field. McClellan called the memo a historic or scholarly review of laws and conventions concerning torture. "The memo was not prepared to provide advice on specific methods or techniques," he said. "It was analytical."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26401-2004Jun8.html

You then need to consider that at Abu Ghraib 5 diferent groups all came up with the same plan.

The Five groups are:

1) The MPs and soldiers who guarded the prison.

2) The Military Intelligence about to be charged.

3) The doctors who according to The Lancet were activly involved in setting up the torture and hiding the deaths caused by it.

4) The Civilian Security Operatives yet to be investigated.

5) The Civilian Contractors yet to be investigated. There were two of them one them is the rapist in the films he he was arrested and then set free because his company had a get out of jail free card from George Bush Junior.

How do seperate branches in the millitary all come up with same plan independantly?

The key factor here people is that those are all seperate chains of command until you get realy high up.

Kind Regards Walker

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]notice how you are talking about Kerry, but not Bush?

Everybody knows that Bush got interest groups behind him.

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]Lose the veteran vote to whom? ...A draft dodging coke fiend who couldn't tear himself away from reading The Pet Goat when told his nation was under attack. What planet are you on?

I'm on Earth, which one are you on?

Quote[/b] ]According to a CBS poll last month, Kerry is nowhere near getting 50 percent of the veteran vote. President Bush leads Kerry among veterans, 54 percent to 40 percent.

[Bernadotte 0]

Quote[/b] ]Lose the veteran vote to whom?  ...A draft dodging coke fiend who couldn't tear himself away from reading The Pet Goat when told his nation was under attack.  What planet are you on?

I'm on Earth, which one are you on?

Quote[/b] ]According to a CBS poll last month, Kerry is nowhere near getting 50 percent of the veteran vote. President Bush leads Kerry among veterans, 54 percent to 40 percent.

So what?

Please don't tell me that you also believe that all veterans choose the nation's leader solely on the basis of their service record.  And if you do believe that then why on Earth (or any other planet you like) would a veteran prefer Bush's service record over Kerry's?

[ralphwiggum 6]

is this why you were asking for a deal to avoid talkinga bout the issue?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/21/edwards.swiftboat/index.html

Quote[/b] ]ROANOKE, Virginia (CNN) -- A volunteer adviser has quit President Bush's re-election campaign after appearing in a veterans group's television commercial blasting Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry's involvement in the Vietnam-era antiwar movement.

A Bush campaign statement said it did not know that retired Air Force Col. Ken Cordier had appeared in an ad by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. The Kerry campaign has accused the group of illegally working with the Bush campaign.

As a so-called 527 group, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is barred from coordinating efforts with an election campaign.

Kerry's camp calls it a front for the Bush campaign and has urged the Federal Election Commission to cite the group, the Bush campaign and the Republican National Committee for violating federal election laws.

The 527 groups are named for the federal provision that makes such organizations tax exempt and allows them to accept unlimited donations.

Before his departure, Cordier -- who spent six years as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam -- was a member of the Bush-Cheney campaign's veterans' steering committee, campaign spokesman Steve Schmidt said in a written statement issued Saturday night.

Cordier appeared in a commercial launched Friday by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which has accused Kerry of lying about his Vietnam service. In it, he and other Vietnam veterans accuse Kerry, a decorated Navy officer, of selling out his old comrades by joining the antiwar movement upon his return home.

"He betrayed us in the past. How could we be loyal to him now?" Cordier asks in the ad.

Schmidt called Cordier "an American hero" but said he would "no longer participate as a volunteer for Bush-Cheney '04" because of his appearance in the anti-Kerry ad.

"Col. Cordier did not inform the campaign of his involvement in the advertisement being run by a 527 organization," Schmidt said.

The Bush campaign called Kerry's FEC complaint "frivolous" in a response released Saturday and urged commissioners to dismiss it swiftly.

A previous ad by the swift boat group accuses Kerry of lying to get his war medals: three Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star and a Silver Star. Kerry and others say the ads are false and misleading.

The latest ad, a 30-second spot released Friday, uses segments from Kerry's testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1971. In the ad, Kerry says, "They had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads," "randomly shot at civilians," and "razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Kahn."

The ad does not include Kerry's preface, in which he said he is reporting what others said at a Vietnam veterans conference. Instead, a swift boat group member refers to the statements as "accusations" Kerry made against Vietnam veterans.

An official transcript shows Kerry was referring to a meeting in Detroit, Michigan, that was part of what was called the Winter Soldier investigation. Kerry has said he regrets some of the comments but stands by his protests.

also

Quote[/b] ]Two speak up for Kerry

Also Saturday, two former comrades of Kerry backed up the candidate's account of the events that earned him his Silver Star.

William Rood, an editor at the Chicago Tribune, writes in Sunday's editions: "Kerry's critics, armed with stories I know to be untrue, have charged that the accounts of what happened [in 1969] were overblown. The critics have taken pains to say they're not trying to cast doubts on the merit of what others did, but their version of events has splashed doubt on all of us."

Like Kerry, Rood was a lieutenant junior grade and skipper of one of the three boats ambushed twice while on patrol February 28, 1969. Kerry was awarded the Silver Star, the Navy's third-highest combat decoration, for his aggressive response to the ambushes.

Rood won a Bronze Star for his actions in the same clash, and writes that criticism of Kerry " impugns others who are not in the public eye."

He says, "It's gotten harder and harder for those of us who were there to listen to accounts we know to be untrue, especially when they come from people who were not there."

John O'Neill, who wrote a book challenging Kerry's accounts of his service, said Saturday that SBVT was not challenging Rood's commendation. But in a statement issued the same day, he called Rood's account "an obvious political move" and said the group's accusations against Kerry were drawn from two previous books about the Massachusetts senator.

"Anyone who compares the three books on the Silver Star incident will see that they are substantially identical in the facts," he said.

Rood says in the first-person article that Kerry asked him to publicly discuss his account of that mission.

"I can't pretend those calls had no effect on me, but that is not why I am writing this," he writes."What matters most to me is that this is hurting crewmen who are not public figures and who deserved to be honored for what they did. My intent is to tell the story here and to never again talk publicly about it."

Rood writes that Kerry was in charge of the mission and discussed with the other two skippers how to handle the inevitable ambushes.

"We agreed that if we were not crippled by the initial volley and had a clear fix on the location of the ambush," he writes, "we would turn directly into it, focusing the boats' twin .50-caliber machine guns on the attackers and beaching the boats."

Twice on that day Kerry ordered such a maneuver, according to Rood. Each time the ambushes were quelled.

O'Neill's book said Kerry shot a fleeing Vietnamese teenager to win the award.

Rood disputes that, saying he checked with another sailor on that mission and they agreed that "he was a grown man, dressed in the kind of garb the [Viet Cong] usually wore."

Wayne Langhofer, who now works at a gunpowder plant in Kansas, said he also was present for the battle.

"I was with Kerry when he won his Silver Star, and as far as I'm concerned, he did right," he told CNN on Saturday.

but then again

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/08/21/heckler.fired.ap/index.html

Quote[/b] ]CHARLESTON, West Virginia (AP) -- A man who heckled President Bush at a political rally was fired from his job at an advertising and design company for offending a client who provided tickets to the event.

The fired graphic designer said Saturday he won't try to get his job back.

"I'm mad less about losing the job -- I'm more mad about the reasons," said Glen Hiller, 35, of Berkeley Springs. "All I did was show up and voice my opinion."

Hiller was ushered out of Hedgesville High School on Tuesday after shouting his disagreement with Bush's comments about the war in Iraq and the search for weapons of mass destruction. The crowd had easily drowned out Hiller with its chant: "Four more years."

"He surrounds himself with people who support him," Hiller said of Bush. "Your opinion ... is viewed as right or wrong."

When he showed up for work at Octavo Designs of Frederick, Maryland, the following morning, he said he was told he'd embarrassed and offended a client who provided tickets to the event -- and that he was fired.

The client was a public relations worker who represents the Berkeley County school district, he said. "It's just bizarre that you disagree with them and it all turns evil," Hiller said.

Messages left with Octavo Designs were not immediately returned Saturday.

The father of two young girls had worked at the design firm for five months, doesn't plan to appeal the firing, and holds no grudge against his boss.

"To some degree I can see her point of view," Hiller said. "Advertising is all about having the perfect tan and driving a cool car. It's all about image."

Hiller said he now plans to pursue work as a registered nurse, a field in which he worked for 10 years before landing the design job.

Last month, Charleston City Council apologized to two protesters arrested for wearing anti-Bush T-shirts to the president's July 4 rally. The pair were taken from the event in restraints after revealing T-shirts with Bush's name crossed out on the front and the words "Love America, Hate Bush" on the back. Trespassing charges were ultimately dismissed.

[kerosene 0]

Theres a good article here about thew swift boat veterans:

http://www.usatoday.com/news....s_x.htm

Like Hoffmann, none of the 13 men in the TV ad served on either of the two swift boats — small, lightly armed patrol craft — that Kerry commanded. Of the group's 254 members — out of 3,500 swift boat sailors who served in Vietnam — only one served under Kerry. The rest who did serve on Kerry's boats back his record.

Many of Kerry's critics commanded boats that went out on missions with Kerry. Others never met him. Most are still angry about Kerry's leadership of Vietnam Veterans Against the War after he returned home.

Among those criticizing Kerry:

• George Elliott, who came to Kerry's defense during his 1996 Senate campaign when questions were raised about his Silver Star. Kerry received the award after beaching his boat to chase a Viet Cong guerrilla who was firing from shore. Kerry jumped ashore and killed the guerrilla. As Kerry's commander, Elliott approved the award and gave him glowing marks in fitness reports. But in an affidavit last month, Elliott said he "was never informed that (Kerry) had simply shot a wounded, fleeing Viet Cong in the back." Last week, Elliott recanted that affidavit in a statement to The Boston Globe, saying he had made "a terrible mistake." But the Swift Boat Veterans group has since issued a statement reaffirming Elliott's affidavit.

Elliott was not available for comment Sunday, but in an interview with USA TODAY earlier this year, he said that while he strongly disagreed with Kerry's anti-war activities, "I don't know how anyone would have taken the risks he took in combat just for the glory of running for office."

• Adrian Lonsdale, who in 1996 called Kerry "among the finest of those swift boat drivers." He says he changed his mind after reading Brinkley's book. Lonsdale, who outranked Kerry, recalls meeting him only once at an officers club. "The only thing I remember is he whined a lot about the lack of air support," he said.

• Charles Plumly, a retired Navy captain who was Hoffmann's chief of staff. He says Kerry "required a lot of supervision" and "did things without permission." Asked in an interview for examples, he said, "I can't give you exact specifics."

• Van O'Dell and Jack Chenoweth, who are among those who say Kerry lied about an incident on March 13, 1969, for which he received a Bronze Star and a third Purple Heart. Kerry was cited for pulling Army Special Forces Lt. Jim Rassmann from a river during a firefight, despite an arm injury. O'Dell says there was no enemy fire and Kerry "fled the scene." Chenoweth says that Kerry's arm was not bleeding and that the official reports were "completely different than" what he saw.

Rassmann has dismissed such accounts as "pure fabrication." Del Sandusky, Kerry's boat driver, says, "I saw the gun flashes in the jungle, and I saw the bullets skipping across the water," adding that the contrary accounts are "part of the Republican slime machine."

• Louis Letson, a doctor who says he treated Kerry. He says Kerry didn't deserve his first Purple Heart because he "inadvertently wounded himself" and "there was no hostile fire." Medical records, however, note that Kerry was treated for shrapnel by J.C. Carreon, not Letson. Bill Zaladonis, who was on Kerry's boat at the time, says the men believed they were shooting at Viet Cong.

FactCheck.org, a non-partisan group that monitors political ads, says Letson's story is "based on hearsay, and disputed hearsay at that." It concludes, "There is reason to doubt" the Swift Boat Veterans' ad because of its funding and because of the discrepancies in memory between Kerry's defenders and attackers.

-------------

Two of the veterans quoted in the ad are former superiors of Kerry's who gave him superlative reports when he served under them. Many years later and driven by political differences, they now attack. George Elliott provides the most bizarre illustration.

In a 1969 efficiency report, Elliott, a lieutenant commander, said: "In a combat environment often requiring independent, decisive action LTJG (lieutenant, junior grade) Kerry was unsurpassed." In a 1996 press conference, Elliott, then a retired Navy captain, reaffirmed his commendation of Kerry.

http://www.courier-journal.com/cjextra....88.html

------------

so Elliot was either lying then, lying now, or unable to judge the character and performance of officers who served under him, either way the guy is lacking in credibility, as well as his confusing retraction about what he has or has not siad more recently.

Some of the people involved in this probably are probably still pissed about Kerrys statement at the winter soldier tribunal, yet they smear all the veterans that were actually WITH Kerry at the time by suggesting that their all involved in a lie they started decades ago.

[Bernadotte 0]

New York ready to unleash fury on Republicans [The Guardian]

This is going to be far more interesting than the DNC in Boston. Who knows  - it might even work in Bush's favour. New York is lost for the Republicans already but if there are big demonstrations or riots, it can affect people watching it on TV. And it would probably help Bush to tighten his grip on the voters that like him now.

Of my friends in NYC most are preparing to demonstrate, while a few just want to get out of town.  All of them agree that, since violence can only work in Bush's favour, it will most likely be initiated by Bush supporters.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Of my friends in NYC most are preparing to demonstrate, while a few just want to get out of town. All of them agree that, since violence can only work in Bush's favour, it will most likely be initiated by Bush supporters.

LOL, initiated by the Bush supporters. I see the anarchist groups are likely going to start it up more than Bush supporters.

[baff 0]

Quote[/b] ]Lose the veteran vote to whom?  ...A draft dodging coke fiend who couldn't tear himself away from reading The Pet Goat when told his nation was under attack.  What planet are you on?

I'm on Earth, which one are you on?

Quote[/b] ]According to a CBS poll last month, Kerry is nowhere near getting 50 percent of the veteran vote. President Bush leads Kerry among veterans, 54 percent to 40 percent.

So what?

Please don't tell me that you also believe that all veterans choose the nation's leader solely on the basis of their service record.  And if you do believe that then why on Earth (or any other planet you like) would a veteran prefer Bush's service record over Kerry's?

choose bush on the service record of his dad.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]Lose the veteran vote to whom? ...A draft dodging coke fiend who couldn't tear himself away from reading The Pet Goat when told his nation was under attack. What planet are you on?

I'm on Earth, which one are you on?

Quote[/b] ]According to a CBS poll last month, Kerry is nowhere near getting 50 percent of the veteran vote. President Bush leads Kerry among veterans, 54 percent to 40 percent.

So what?

Please don't tell me that you also believe that all veterans choose the nation's leader solely on the basis of their service record. And if you do believe that then why on Earth (or any other planet you like) would a veteran prefer Bush's service record over Kerry's?

choose bush on the service record of his dad.

What?

[billybob2002 0]

Classic...Dole has entered...

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040822/D84KGLT00.html

Quote[/b] ]

Dole Questions Kerry's Vietnam Wounds

Aug 22, 5:06 PM (ET)

By PETE YOST

 

CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) - Former Republican Sen. Bob Dole suggested Sunday that John Kerry apologize for past testimony before Congress about alleged atrocities during the Vietnam War and joined critics of the Democratic presidential candidate who say he received an early exit from combat for "superficial wounds." Dole also called on Kerry to release all the records of his service in Vietnam.

Separately, President Bush's re-election campaign continued to deny links to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, an anti-Kerry group running ads in three states, after the resignation of a campaign volunteer who appeared in the group's new ad.

With Kerry taking a break from campaigning, running mate John Edwards said Bush needs to tell the group to pull its ads, a step the White House and the Bush campaign refuse to take. The White House and Bush's campaign note that Kerry has benefited from more than $62 million worth of similar advertising against the president.

"This is the moment of truth for President Bush," Edwards said in North Carolina. "The American people have to hear directly that these ads need to come off the air." Kerry also fought back in another new ad.

Dole told CNN's "Late Edition" that he warned Kerry months ago about going "too far" and that the Democrat may have himself to blame for the current situation, in which polls show him losing support among veterans.

"One day he's saying that we were shooting civilians, cutting off their ears, cutting off their heads, throwing away his medals or his ribbons," Dole said. "The next day he's standing there, 'I want to be president because I'm a Vietnam veteran.

"Maybe he should apologize to all the other 2.5 million veterans who served. He wasn't the only one in Vietnam," said Dole, whose World War II wounds left him without the use of his right arm.

Dole added: "And here's, you know, a good guy, a good friend. I respect his record. But three Purple Hearts and never bled that I know of. I mean, they're all superficial wounds. Three Purple Hearts and you're out."

Kerry's supporters rose to his defense.

 

"Senator Kerry carries shrapnel in his thigh as distinct from President Bush who carries two fillings in his teeth from his service in the Alabama National Guard, which seems to be his only time that he showed up," John Podesta, former chief of staff in the Clinton White House, said on ABC's "This Week."

Bush served stateside in the Guard during the Vietnam years. Podesta's reference was to the White House's release of documents earlier this year showing Bush's dental visits during his Guard years after questions arose about whether he had always reported for duty.

Bush-Cheney campaign manager Ken Mehlman also blamed Kerry for the ongoing debate, complaining on NBC's "Meet the Press" that "Kerry himself has attacked the president for his service during the Vietnam years," while the Republican's campaign has "so strongly praised" Kerry's tour of duty in Vietnam.

The Bush campaign also said the Federal Election Commission should immediately dismiss what it termed a "frivolous" complaint by Kerry's campaign alleging coordination between the re-election effort and the Swift Boat group.

The White House and the Bush campaign for weeks have denied any connection to the Swift Boat organization, whose early financial support came largely from a prominent Texas businessman with longtime ties to the state's top Republicans, including Bush.

The group's latest ad includes a Bush-Cheney volunteer, retired Air Force Col. Ken Cordier, condemning Kerry's 1971 congressional testimony that Dole spoke of. Cordier was a prisoner of war during Vietnam.

"Colonel Cordier did not inform the campaign of his involvement in the advertisement," a Bush campaign statement said. "Because of his involvement Colonel Cordier will no longer participate as a volunteer for Bush-Cheney '04."

A new Kerry TV ad urged the president to "denounce the smear" and 'get back to the issues" because America deserves better." The 30-second commercial, to air in the same three states as the Swift Boat group ad - Ohio, West Virginia and Wisconsin - compares Kerry's situation to the 2000 primary campaign when "Bush smeared John McCain."

McCain has condemned the ads and called on the president to do so, too.

In response, Bush's campaign released a copy of a letter it was sending to television station managers on Monday defending itself from the claims in the new Kerry ad.

Questions mounted over the motives of Kerry's critics, two of whom had praised his service in 1996, even as Kerry's supporters faced questions about the candidate. Among the allegations is that Kerry lied about being in neutral Cambodia on Christmas Eve 1968.

"I don't think anyone knows for sure whether or not they were in Cambodia that night, but they were near Cambodia on Christmas Eve," John Hurley, who heads a pro-Kerry veterans group, said on "Fox News Sunday.""He was five miles into Cambodia on a different occasion."

Another allegation is that Kerry was not under enemy fire as after-action reports say he was, an incident for which he received a Bronze Star, one of five medals earned in Vietnam.

"The after-action reports were written from Kerry's spot reports from that day," said Kerry critic Van Odell, also appearing on the same program. "None of us knew he even got the Bronze Star until more recently."

I guess Dole is controlled by the Bush team, now....

[ralphwiggum 6]

he doesn't have to be. Dole is a moderate but also a Republican.

[Akira 0]

I guess Dole is controlled by the Bush team, now....

It's called being a Republican.

EDIT:

Quote[/b] ]Dole also called on Kerry to release all the records of his service in Vietnam.

Classic indeed. Refer to Scholer's post about that very thing.

"Release all your records!"

*releases records*

"Release all your records!"