Us presidential election 2004

[whisperFFW06 0]

* EDITED nevermind, next time I'll read through the entire post ;) *

[KaRRiLLioN 0]

Actually the income tax is a crap idea.

The nat'l sales tax idea is much better, but I'm not sure that it's OT to go into depth here on the specifics.

Those who pay no taxes now would get a full refund check each month

Everyone would be taxed on what they spend, not what they earn, so the rich would still pay the lion's share of taxes since a 25% tax on a yacht is a lot more than it would be on a fishing boat.

Corporations would no longer have federal tax incentives because they'd be paying a 25% tax on everything they buy (unless it's for resale) just like everyone else.

Prices on goods would fall since the built-in price of double-taxation of corporations would be gone

You don't have to be libertarian to appreciate it. In fact, two Republican senators ran on the Fair Tax Code as the basis of their campaign, and both won, despite the rhetoric their Dem opponents threw at it.

You have to admit, the current tax code is a special-interest bonanza! Corporations have so much crap built into it for their own good that it's time we dumped it. Just think, no more tax returns to fill out each year!!

[denoir 0]

Do I post that stuff on this forums? No because it is country bashing and flame baiting.

It's not. First of all it's directed at the people that voted for a specific candidate. It's not against Americans or America.

Second, posting that image is not necessarily showing the opinion of of the poster - it is just a reflection of what UK media is writing.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]It's not. First of all it's directed at the people that voted for a specific candidate. It's not against Americans or America.

Second, posting that image is not necessarily showing the opinion of of the poster - it is just a reflection of what UK media is writing.

So, why did the person who posted the 50 thingy got banned? He was posting a reflection of what a US person wrote. It is still flame-baiting because I voted for Bush and a piece of shit mag is trying to insult me. Should I talk about their teeth or something? The people who voted for Bush are americans.

[Pathy 0]

And the people who voted for kerry (ie are against bush) are also Americans. Otherwise they couldnt have voted

[whisperFFW06 0]

Quote[/b] ]It's not. First of all it's directed at the people that voted for a specific candidate. It's not against Americans or America.

Second, posting that image is not necessarily showing the opinion of of the poster - it is just a reflection of what UK media is writing.

So, why did the person who posted the 50 thingy got banned? He was posting a reflection of what a US person wrote. It is still flame-baiting because I voted for Bush and a piece of shit mag is trying to insult me. Should I talk about their teeth or something? The people who voted for Bush are americans.

How does one dare touch America! In newspaper!!! Shock! Horror!

Once more, plz refresh your mind, I've seen exactly the same thrown at my country (France) some months ago (and many were finding this very funny), on US newspaper and references to them put here.

I bet at this time, country bashing was ok?

[gandalf the white 0]

Quote[/b] ]It's not. First of all it's directed at the people that voted for a specific candidate. It's not against Americans or America.

Second, posting that image is not necessarily showing the opinion of of the poster - it is just a reflection of what UK media is writing.

So, why did the person who posted the 50 thingy got banned? He was posting a reflection of what a US person wrote. It is still flame-baiting because I voted for Bush and a piece of shit mag is trying to insult me. Should I talk about their teeth or something? The people who voted for Bush are americans.

How does one dare touch America! In newspaper!!! Shock! Horror!

Once more, plz refresh your mind, I've seen exactly the same thrown at my country (France) some months ago, on US newspaper and references to them put here.

I bet at this time, country bashing was ok?

proof! and give us a laugh

[ralphwiggum 6]

So, why did the person who posted the 50 thingy got banned?

cause there was a graphic image at the site?

[kerosene 0]

And what do you suppose Kerry would do about the situation with Arafat?

Exactly the same as Bush probably, even if the democrats had won, the course is set on the middle east and Kerry would have probably opted for a continuation of Bushes policy. Its not as though the plight of the palestenians was an election issue.

[denoir 0]

So, why did the person who posted the 50 thingy got banned? He was posting a reflection of what a US person wrote.

What 50 thingy?

Quote[/b] ]It is still flame-baiting because I voted for Bush and a piece of shit mag is trying to insult me.

So you think that nothing that can be potentially insulting to anybody can be discussed? I find your use of the letter "e" distrubing and insulting. Please cease and desist.

Quote[/b] ]Should I talk about their teeth or something?

That would be directed at all the British. You could say "how can 5,000,000 (made up number) people be so stupid to read the Daily Mirror". Or you can say "How can 2,000,000 people in Sweden be so stupid to vote no to the EMU".

Voting for a candidate is a choice - a political expression and as such a legitimate target for attack.

Quote[/b] ]The people who voted for Bush are americans.

That's nonsense. So if I'm saying that those that supported Kerry's tax plan are stupid, then I'm insulting all Americans? Yeah, all the ones that voted for Bush are Americans, but not all Americans voted for Bush.

It's a legitimate attack on a political opinion.

[KaRRiLLioN 0]

This is politics and there's been plenty of country bashing being thrown around on all sides.

If it makes some people feel better, then fine, let them wallow in the ecstasy of bashing. I don't know too many people who haven't made a derogatory massly generalized comment or two about any number of things.

Of course things almost got out of hand on teamspeak the night before the election. Several of us were playing some WW2 coops. There was a German, a French fellow from Salsburg, 3 Canadians, a Brazilian, and several Americans of various political persuasions talking and someone started on politics. Man, I thought I was going to have to shut down the TS server, lol.

Well, we managed to calm it down, and then proceeded with our German invasion of Skye Island vs. those nasty American imperialists!!

[-33ker 0]

Just to let you guys know.  Here in sunny Peoria, i registered to vote and they never sent me my card in the mail to come down and vote.  I did receive a call on who i'd vote for also before hand and i answered kerry.  So does Bush fix the votes?  Perhaps he does.

That's why I think your voting system sucks. It doesn't mean that you actually can vote if you register. Some "administration mistakes" could always appear and make people disappear from the lists...

anyway...

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]Quote (billybob2002 @ Nov. 04 2004,18:09)

So, why did the person who posted the 50 thingy got banned? He was posting a reflection of what a US person wrote.

What 50 thingy?

Around page 280 I think, someone posted a link to a site that had "50 Reasons to vote for Bush."

Besides the idiocy of the statements, the genius directly linked to the page where there were pictures of decapitated people, the burned people in Falluja, and other dead body pictures.

[DanAK47 1]

I never received a voter card and was able to vote. Your name should be on the list there.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]That's nonsense. So if I'm saying that those that supported Kerry's tax plan are stupid, then I'm insulting all Americans? Yeah, all the ones that voted for Bush are Americans, but not all Americans voted for Bush.

It's a legitimate attack on a political opinion.

Not even going to respond...

[Monkey Lib Front 10]

Quote[/b] ]That's nonsense. So if I'm saying that those that supported Kerry's tax plan are stupid, then I'm insulting all Americans? Yeah, all the ones that voted for Bush are Americans, but not all Americans voted for Bush.

It's a legitimate attack on a political opinion.

Not even going to respond...

Yea because you finally have realised that he is right.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Yea because you finally have realised that he is right.

No, because I can say something about the anti-war iraqi people and Kerry supporters on this board. You are all reading my posts wrong. Not saying anything about Bob but the image is offensive to any board member who voted for Bush. Hence, the image is flame-baiting.The 58 million is  

Quote[/b] ]

How does one dare touch America! In newspaper!!! Shock! Horror!

Once more, plz refresh your mind, I've seen exactly the same thrown at my country (France) some months ago (and many were finding this very funny), on US newspaper and references to them put here.

I bet at this time, country bashing was ok?

No, I do not country bashed unless country bashed first.

[quicksand 0]

Well it came to this,Bush won.It served numerous lessons like the futallity of polls when candidates are relatively close in the ellections and how could a man get reelected regardless if a majority of the electorate considers considers the economy as his major weakness and one of the war he started a deepening failure.

A CNN poll outlined that the only stronger point Bush had which in turn beyond doubt won him the ellections was the war on terrorism and the fact that he sticks with what he says regardless of being wrong.It ineveitably comes to my mind if any other administration let's say had Gore won the ellection put in his position after 9-11 woudn't have persued the enemy and try to capture Osama bin Laden himself and if this wasn't the natural course of events,I have no reason to think otherwise.

So what would have been the main diference in the end between TBA and a fictional Gore,ah yes this president also invaded a country that had nothing to do with the WoT under false pretenses,ending up killing 100,000 civillians as most recent numbers show -which indeed was a humanitarian desaster as TBA asserted Iraq was running the risk only with a reverse of the characters responsable for it.Continuing on this path of stinging facts it's obviously worth mentioning  the 1,000 US serviceman KIA and how severly bogged down USA is,in a war that doesn't seem to show any sign of tipping in ones favour 18 months after it commenced 16 months after he declared glorious victory.

For this and moresome that I could get into I consider Bush voters were severly misled by shallow reasoning that in the end led them to turn a blind eye on the emerging catastrophy of our generation-Iraq.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]The people who voted for Bush are americans.

That's nonsense. So if I'm saying that those that supported Kerry's tax plan are stupid, then I'm insulting all Americans? Yeah, all the ones that voted for Bush are Americans, but not all Americans voted for Bush.

It's a legitimate attack on a political opinion.

I don't feel attacked. I ain't one of the 59 Million

[Blake 0]

It's interesting to see that the same arguments and fears that Powell used to oppose Iraqi occupation after the first Gulf War have now become reality.

[NavyEEL 0]

How many civilians would have continued to be killed under Saddam Hussein had we not gone into Iraq? Just because you don't hear about those deaths on the mainstream news, does it mean that they were ok? Sure there maybe have been deaths in the short-run, but in the long-run a safe Iraq will be better for all involved.

And what about Sudan? What about Rwanda back during the Clinton administration? No countries did anything, to include the United States and Europe. At least Bush is trying to do something instead of just sitting there.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]That's nonsense. So if I'm saying that those that supported Kerry's tax plan are stupid, then I'm insulting all Americans? Yeah, all the ones that voted for Bush are Americans, but not all Americans voted for Bush.

It's a legitimate attack on a political opinion.

Where did I say all americans?

Your post:

Quote[/b] ]First of all it's directed at the people that voted for a specific candidate. It's not against Americans or America.

It is against americans for Bush.

Quote[/b] ]I don't feel attacked. I ain't one of the 59 Million

I hope you like Japan. I always wanted to go there..

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]I hope you like Japan. I always wanted to go there..

Lemme know when you go so I can have them refuse entry. They ain't too fond of Bush either...

Quote[/b] ]How many civilians would have continued to be killed under Saddam Hussein had we not gone into Iraq?

Thats swell since that wasn't at all the reason given. If the US was so concerned about that why not finish the job in 91? The truth is that is just another smoke screen reason by the TBA as they continue to hunt for the ever allusive, non-exsistant WMDs.

And in any case, I suppose we will have to invade every dictator now. For liberty, and freedom and all that right? Have fun in the rest of the Middle East, Africa, parts of Asia and South America.

[denoir 0]

Not saying anything about Bob but the image is offensive to any board member who voted for Bush. Hence, the image is flame-baiting.The 58 million is  

Flame baiting is defined by the forum rules as:

"flame-baiting is making a post to someone that is obviously intended to elicit an angry response."

The rule is not that you can't post anything that will be offensive to anybody. It is that you should not post things that will trigger flame wars.

In this case SpongeBob was not stating his opinion but showing the opinion of a UK newspaper. The worst that can happen is that somebody goes on a rant agaisnt the Daily Mirror. Since that woundn't constitute flaming, there is no problem.

The image does not provoke flaming between users, so it's not an issue as far as the forum rules go.

NavyEEL:

The most outrageous overblown claims about Saddam say that he was responsible for about 700,000 deaths during his ~25 years in power. That's an annual figure of 28,000. You've been there less than two years and you are up to 100,000 - which is supposed to be a conservative estimate. Apart from that, the country is on a downward spiral with things getting worse by the day. There is a real risk of a complete breakdown and a civil war. A possible scenario is that it will spread throughout the region. Then we are talking about millions of deaths.

The second thing, that you seem to conveniently forget is that you're not there to save the Iraqis. You are there to pre-emptively defend yourself by removing Saddam and dismantling his WMD. As it turns out, there were no WMD and for that excuse, you've killed 100,000 civilians - all of them as innocent as those killed by AQ in New York.

Quote[/b] ]

And what about Sudan? What about Rwanda back during the Clinton administration? No countries did anything, to include the United States and Europe. At least Bush is trying to do something instead of just sitting there.

What about Sudan? I don't see Bush doing anything there. As for Rwanda, you are quite right. We're however not talking about historical rights and wrongs. A comparison is not appropriate as Iraq was not about saving the Iraqis from Saddam.

[Blake 0]

Quote[/b] ]Sure there maybe have been deaths in the short-run, but in the long-run a safe Iraq will be better for all involved.

You should use the word maybe. And we are talking about 100,000 deaths directly/indirectly after the invasion

in a period of 16 months compared to 200,000-300,000 death in period of 35 years of Saddam Hussein regime. I supported the war but I just wanted to point out these statistics.

Quote[/b] ]And what about Sudan?  What about Rwanda back during the Clinton administration?  No countries did anything, to include the United States and Europe.  At least Bush is trying to do something instead of just sitting there.

Then what is he doing about North-Korea and Iran? Darfur is a mess, does Bush care? Somalia is still in chaos

EDIT: To me, a supporter of the war, looking at these statistics and facts is not very gratifying to say the least, but admitting the facts that are going on the ground might just help to put things into perspective. Bull-headed denial of reality does not really help adopting to situation - which does not mean pull-out as it's quite impossible.