Nogovan army?

[ran 0]

the pattern that SEBASTIAN MULLER created for the MTLB is indeed very good but since it is already taken by FIA whats the originality of the army having the same one?

no originality needed since the FIA should have been mainly composed of former NDF members

[CanadianTerror 0]

Well I guess that's why I posted the uniform textures. Using the FIA camo makes the Nogovan army look like a rebel army with no originality.

You'd think that they'd get new uniforms at least and the same for armour/air force colors

[Wick_105 0]

why not have the Loepard 1A2 as the MBT mixed in with BTR 60/70s as apc's, D30 howitzers with MTLB's as the prime movers for the artillery or even some 2S1 self propelled guns.

and what's the main source of income for nogova? depending on that the country could have the latest in armour and air technology.

I like the idea of 1 battalion with 1 parra coy and 2 light coys

but why not also have a battalion - with 2 coys of mech inf

or have an army of 10% pro 90% conscripts or something like that?

[hellfish6 7]

Mech infantry is expensive, especially when these islands are so small. I kind of figured that if need be, they could take some APCs from the reserves and use them to mechanize an infantry company. Light infantry tends to be pretty versatile (and cheap) and very little training is needed to make a rifleman an APC driver.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Light infantry tends to be pretty versatile (and cheap) and very little training is needed to make a rifleman an APC driver.

how about making them commander and have them try to go over a fallen tree trunk?

i'd have to give votes for light infantry.

[TopCover 0]

If Nogovans studied their own militairy history, they could come to the conclusion that all the Nogovan defence force should consist of is: 1 officer and 2 conscripts sitting in a warehouse 1 day a year so every able bodied citizen can come and collect 1 ak with 20 mags, a rpg-7 with a few grenades, 3 satchels, a compass, a map and a copy of Troskas' Field Guide to Total Destruction

But seriously a self defence force seems justified and the numbers offered in this thread seem credible to me. Budget wise it might be a stretch but i assume a few frigates and corvettes together with a company sized landing force for good measure would not be completely useless, considering the amount of water within the borders.

[Tim Pink 0]

Hi everyone

Im really loving this idea but what i would like to know is would the soldiers be equiped with Body amour eg, Kevlar, Flak Jackets and modern day luxuries like such.

And when you think of it, if the Tonal Rebelion front can have a series of UAZ's with PK's and BRDMS with Pk'sthen i think the nogovan government could afford to use and maintain the same.

you could also say that the nogovan ocean was full of oil and gave them a seriously large income if they were trading with the U.S and it could be the main reason for the russians invading.

The idea for the troska military academy is good, and also you might b able to tie Gastovski into it, after the "Cold War Crisis" Gastovski returned to nogova to train a spec ops group to always be on hand if a state of war arose.

and whos to say that the americans and nogovans havent crossed trained in the 20 yrs since the first invasion lol.

I posted a really good idea in the other airforce topic and i know realise that it was the wrong place lol

ill paste it here

the whole idea of a nogovan army gives you so much to work with.

one idea i came up with is that this whole campaign and situation could be based around the present day.

i mean America is fighting the threat of terrorism and that has kept them occupied with a large majority if their forces in Afganistan and Iraq.

And the Russians have used this oppurtunity to try another attack on Nogova to try and bring it under communist rule.

The only difference is that Nogova has had a good 20 yrs to build up its military might and this time when the russians attack they(even thought still being outnumbered) are way more prepared to meet this threat.

whilst America asks the Russians to cease their assault on the island\s they arent really in a position to intervene(because of their forces being occupied with other conflicts) so it would mean that it would be a slug fest between Russia and the Nogovan republic with no assistance from the outside world.

its still unclear how big a nogovan force would be but the nogovan police force could also be called on to don the army BDU's in a state of war.

Would the modern Nogovan soldiers wear, eg Body Amour, what type of Camo

also if this is set in a more modern time you could incorporate Earl and Sucheys Russian soldiers into the mix

I would love to be a part of this mod if u need a mission designer/ maker

Thanx

Tim

[Apollo 0]

It seems most here would feel that a generally obsolete and unneffective army for Nogova would be right.This takes into consideration that Nogova toghether with Malden and Everon is a poor country.But why keep it a poor country? We could add a oil well or offshore platform or 20 and include some dense industrial area's/ports and make it look like a small but rich country due to exports.In that case it could afford relative modern jets though not top of the line like for ex. F16's or Jas37 Grippen's.And as armor something like mainly Leopard tanks and other easy to buy Western material.It would be better IMO for playablilety reasons to make the Nogova army atleast having a chance to hurt invading army's.

[stevevcb 3]

How about a compromise? How about older Western gear? Stuff like US M60s, UK Chieftains, French AMX-30s, German Leopard 1's? Why not tool the squaddies up with M16A1's, FN FAL's or G3's? The Nogovan army doesn't need to be outdated Eastern gear or cutting-edge Western tech, does it?

[ran 0]

i was thinking about homemade modifications on vehicles for exemple an M113 with BMP1 turret or vice-versa to get a new IFV or APC

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]How about a compromise? How about older Western gear? Stuff like US M60s, UK Chieftains, French AMX-30s, German Leopard 1's? Why not tool the squaddies up with M16A1's, FN FAL's or G3's? The Nogovan army doesn't need to be outdated Eastern gear or cutting-edge Western tech, does it?

Well ,we got 3 standard BIS Islands.Before we start making army's for these islands ,shouldnt we first decide how the nation of 3 silands if not Multiple nations look like?

For ex. We could make 2 nations ,the Republic of Nogova and the People's republic of Everon wich also includes Malden.Everon is naturally Communist and Nogova capitalist.

Or we could make the islands 1 country ,be it communist or capitalist (or in between) ,or 3 country's.

When we have decided on what the island/s political system will be ,we can start discussing their economy.Do we make them poor ,or only certain ilands poor ,or even rich?Afterall ,it's wealth wich decide's what material you will buy.We can give the islands industry's wich can have a value in game economy wise ,and ports etc. (there some good addons for that)

I love the thought of giving the OFP islands in depth identity's ,each with their charasteristic feature's.So that they are really worlds on themselfs.Since the game is played in the Cold war it would be nice IMO to have independant nations on the Islands

wich are either Commie ,capitalist or neutral.And industry could be a reason to fight to ,especially if you have thing's like oil wells.

There is also a nice addon released wich combines all three islands on one map.We could improve on that map ,give the islands more feature's withought lagging the map and use it for wars between the Islands or something.

Ah well ,just my thoughts....

[supersheep 0]

TopCover: I think maybe that's a bit big (see below for why). Maybe more like a couple of coast patrol boats (like lifeboats) and patrol topedo boats, and a corvette. I think a frigate would be a bit big. Oh, and there'd be no point in having a company just for landings, because it'd never be used. Have some landing craft sitting at a dock somewhere, make BTR-60's and PT-76's the armour, and voila! Light army, that can also do short distance opposed landings (i.e the short distance from Nogova to Everon\Malden\Kolgujev). Whatcha think?

I think everyone seems to be thinking of a Nogova with a population that could afford to buy F-16's and the like. But it probably isn't. Nogova has an area of approximately 100 sq km. Most European countries have a population density of anything up to 400 per sq km. I know this isn't exactly the best way to use figures like this, but I like it, because it provides a compromise between what the island could support in RL and what we need to support this. So that's 40,000, maybe 50,000. The whole island chain (Nogova, Everon, Malden, Kolgujev), I'd say 100,000, tops. Which flatly contradicts my earlier 20,000. :oops: So something of the size of Imshi-Yallah's actually would be quite feasible, possibly even bigger if it involves conscription\time of war. Personally I'd rather see it Soviet-equipped, because Nogova feels Soviet to me (just look at the tower blocks, and that name!) but that's just me.

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]I think everyone seems to be thinking of a Nogova with a population that could afford to buy F-16's and the like. But it probably isn't. Nogova has an area of approximately 100 sq km. Most European countries have a population density of anything up to 400 per sq km. I know this isn't exactly the best way to use figures like this, but I like it, because it provides a compromise between what the island could support in RL and what we need to support this. So that's 40,000, maybe 50,000. The whole island chain (Nogova, Everon, Malden, Kolgujev), I'd say 100,000, tops. Which flatly contradicts my earlier 20,000. :oops: So something of the size of Imshi-Yallah's actually would be quite feasible, possibly even bigger if it involves conscription\time of war. Personally I'd rather see it Soviet-equipped, because Nogova feels Soviet to me (just look at the tower blocks, and that name!) but that's just me.

Why should poppulation alone be determinal for the income of Nogova.There is also a thing like high value natural resources wich can bring in a lot of money.Enough small nations in the world that could afford a very decent army if they would put their oil income in it.Just give Nogova a few industrial area's ,an important port and a x amount of oil wells with pipeline's and theres youre income for f16's .In addition ,it makes the island finnaly worthwhile to invade.

And there is also such a thing like financial and material support.Should this Island be allied to NATO or Warshaupact then it would probably receive a fair ammount of support.

[Imshi-Yallah 0]

First of all most of the ideas, here are for an FIA army which is not what we are talking about, my post was based on research on real nations.

Take for instance East Timor which has a population of less than 300,000 their nascent ETDF will consist of around 2,000 personnel.

The number of towns in Nogova, the infrastructure that was in place and the high rsk level involved suggests a population of greater than 10,000 something that is likely to expand after a period of oppression.

Given the extreme vulnerability of the Island a ratio of over 90 Soldiers per thousand population (Israels Level in 2001 when they though peace was coming) is almost certain.

The Equipment I selected is all easy to maintain and being donated free of charge for at least the lats 10 years.

Someone asked about the logistical tail, Unlike the US army this is a relatively low tech and light force, also it is not expeditionary in role which further reduces the need for logs and tech personnel.

In answer to accusations that the army is too high tech, I'd point to the absence of surveillance radars, ATGMs, AFVs, Modern Recconaisance vehicles (i.e. Sensor based ones) and any sort of NBC equipment.

Back to the issue of logisitics and personnel, remember that the fewer types of equipment used the less expensive and personell intensive your military is, no one in Nogova is going to say they dont need an army for a good many years yet, dont forget that they weren't only invaded in recent memory but they also remember trouncing a superpower.

The Militia creates ample opportunity for the inclusion of old Eastern and FIA type equipment in modern Nogova campaigns but like BAS' Tonal it is a sense of realism that sets a scenario apart.

Tonal is great because with a limited amount of addons plus realistic forces from the various National mods it is possible to create any number of co-existing and interlinking mission and campaign scenarios, something that including a morass of addons for the sake of it will spoil because every force will encounter a different enemy and the whole modern Nogova scenario will lose its credibility and become just another lost addon/campaign pack.

[ozanzac 0]

Okie dokie, what are we discussing here.

Potential Nogovan Army units or the GDP of Nogova?

I don't think it really matters if 'Nogova' can maintain a single rusty T-34 or a million OPLOT's, numbers is up to the mission (and hopefully campaign) creators.

What we first need to decide, is equiptment.

Predominantly age, and origin.

I put down a blend of Soviet and Czech equiptment as the basis of Nogova's armed forces. Of late seventies to early eighties vintage.

Why? Look at the original resistance soldiers. They were running around with AK's, and not just any old AK. But the czech SA Vz.58 (AK-47cz) of soviet heritage. Thus, in my view, a czech/soviet equipped army makes sense.

Because even after the collapse of Communism, the Czech army maintained its Soviet Equiptment right up until 2001, using nothing more advanced than T-72(?) type equiptment.

Just my view on things

[supersheep 0]

Apollo: I was working on the assumption that it has no oil wells or similarily important resources. If it does, it changes that and it could conceivably have F-16s, but that sort of relatively advanced aircraft seems a bit out of place to me. I think less modern stuff, like Hawks and Mig-23s is more the way to go. That's ore for the aircraft thread though.

Imshi: Think that was me asking about logistics. Thanks for clearing that one up, makes a lot of sense now. I suppose in the case of an invasion, all the clerks would probably go shoot someone! The army you posted back in the beginning is 2,000 men and about 4,000 reserve, making around 6,000. So what kind of population are you thinking of?

ozanzac: You need to have a fair idea of the GDP and population to work out what sort of military it can have. If it's got a tiny population, then they can't have a ten division army! Yes, you can ignore the size of the island and how rich it is, but we are trying to get something with a bit of realism in it. Admittedly, it is getting a bit out of hand though... Sorry!

On the subject of equipment, yes, I agree with ozanzac. Equipment should be late sevnties, early eighties Soviet Bloc stuff. But if you're aiming for a post-Resistance thing, then I'll pass on something someone else said on the Air Force thread. The Nogovan army would be starting to replace their old, and hard-to-service (because I doubt the Soviets will gve them parts) armour with NATO equipment that has been donated.

I also think that there should be some sort of SAM system for the island. I think someone released an SA-6 (or similar) pack a while back, so put it on a couple of ground launchers, a few radar buldings, and voila. It doesn't even need to be operational, it could be just for looks, although DKM have released a pack that could allow you to have separate radars and launchers.

[CanadianTerror 0]

I just did a very quick edit job on the Kmarns pack. I used Edge's U.S woodland textures from his resistance pack. I dont mean this has to used but I think the Kmarns pack is a good one to go with for soldier models.

[GoOB 0]

All this discussion about logistics has my head spinning around. According to a small text file I found about the Finnish defence forces during the seventies I can tell they didn't really have a very advanced logistics system. They would confiscate civilian trucks, cars anything to transport their material. I would imagine that the Nogovan defence forces would do something similar. Using alot of civilian vehicles to haul their soldiers and equipment.

[Imshi-Yallah 0]

Yes they would have, whats your point? They still had their own trucks also, whats more you cant make any number of essential repair, recovery, workshop and other technical vehicles appear out of your local Skoda dealership.

[GoOB 0]

It's called a toolbox and it fits quite nicely in any form of mid sized truck And besides wouldn't repair vehicles be a matter for the enginering corps?

And as for what vehicles they would use as eventual repair and workshop vehicles I would pretty much guess PV35 trucks, much like the ones in-game already but with a new coat of paint

[reconmercs 0]

I just did a very quick edit job on the Kmarns pack. I used Edge's U.S woodland textures from his resistance pack. I dont mean this has to used but I think the Kmarns pack is a good  one to go with for soldier models.

http://www.operationnorthstar.com/pics/NogovanSoldier.jpg

When quoting please skip the image

that looks very nice..what are u thinking as being their primary rifle...I would go with something like the FN FAL or an older HK like the G3 also since the nogova resistance used stolen soviet gear in the campaign a couple AKs and PKs would be ok I guess

[AKM 0]

This all sounds great.

I'm thinking that the NDF (Official name?) should be around HellFish-6's description, and perhaps they could have some decent gear. I'm assuming we're all thinking "Modern." Nogovan military now. So I'd give 'em some old Swedish/Finnish kit, or alternatively, T-64 tanks with upgraded armour - same goes for BMDs, BMP's, BTRs, that kinda thing.

We should try to shift ourselves away from the Eastern-Bloc mentality. Lets assume for a second that they got some diplomatic contacts in Sweden, Finland, wherever. We'll also assume that they have some decent infrastructure and economy, so they can afford half-decent kit.

My current vote for individual equipment:

Webbing of the M-91 Finnish style, older ALICE rucksack (Differnt model than the Resistance one, please.)

Camouflage pattern should be Malden Highlands (Working off the Edge camouflage schemes)

The major debate now seems to be personal weapons - FN MAG or PKM general purpose machineguns would cut it, very good weapons. As to issue assault rifle, AK-5, Kulsprutepistol-M45 (Swedish-K) and that kind of thing may work - scratch the AK-5 though... slightly too Scandanavian. We can rule out SIG assault rifles - the price tag on those is bloody huge. The Kalashnikov seems to be a standard here, but I'd prefer to see that gone - its used way too many times. I'm thinking not a FIA army clone here, but a European Army. Something minus mostly soviet-equipment would be good.

So far, my idea:

Something based loosly off CT's previous work, with the Edge's Resistance Malden Highlands camouflage pattern as a standard uniform, with issue webbing not unlike that. Issue rifle may be a FN-FAL or similar - those are good weapons. I'd like to see a "Swedish-K" included, for no other reason than I saw the suggestion and liked it. It'd be useful for vehicle crews and logistics techs.

Vehicles should be around... dunno - T-64's with ERA plating would be good vehicles to start with, that's about as "primitive" as one can go without it turning into a FIA-army-clone. Modern aircraft are OK, to an extent, provided they are surplus soviet ones - the Russians have been offloading their old MiG and Sukhoi fighters as of late..

Basic transport should mostly be wheeled - retexed URALs and UAZ's would cover it, BTR-60,70,80 series vehicles are good as well - BMD's and BMP's for fighting vehicles would cover it over fine.

So far, its looking good.

AK

[AKM 0]

Okay, so here is a basic ORBAT and TO&E, mostly bastardized off HellFish-6. *Nods at HellFish in thanks*

Quote[/b] ]

Army of the Independant Nogovan Republic:

Active Duty (Professional Officer, Non-Commissioned Officer cadre, Conscript - mandatory 3 year service - enlisted men.)

1st Battalion, Nogovan Light Infantry

A Company: Airborne Infantry, based on Malden, 110 men

B Company: Light Infantry, based on Everon, 110 men

C Company: Light Infantry, based on Nogova, 110 men

D Company: Heavy weapons (one platoon attached to each A, B and C Companies), 74 men

HHC Company: Support (HQ, recon, supply), based on Nogova, 56 men

C Squadron, Nogova Light Horse based on Nogova

1st Troop (Platoon): 8 T-64BV, 32 men

2nd Troop: 4 T-55A, 16 men

3rd Troop: Mech Infantry platoon (BMP-2), 46 men

HQ Troop: 3 T-55A, 1 ZSU (or comparable AA platform), 2 BMD, 26 men

F Battery, Nogovan Light Artillery, based on Nogova

6 M-101 or D-30 guns plus PV3S trucks, 50 men. *NOTE: Need Russian Field Guns and Howitzer pieces, easier to come by*

"Troska" Troop, Nogovan Special Air Service

24 men

Military Police Platoon, one squad on each island. 44 men.

1 Field Company, Nogova Engineer Regiment

85 men, one platoon on each island.

General HQ, based on Nogova, 40 men incl. General Officer Commanding Nogovan Army (GOCNA)

2 Service Battalion

A Company: Personnel Services (pay, legal, admin, etc.) 20 men

B Company: Medical Services (provides medical support to all Nogovan forces, supervises medic training) 59 men, 4 doctors

C Company: Training Support (incl. drill sergeants, runs military academy and creates and implements Army doctrine), 47 men

D Company: Maintenance (maintains vehicles, motorpools, facilities and weapon systems) 124 men

E Company: Logistics Support (stocks warehouses and supplies units, provides transportation, etc.) 113 men

Reserve Forces Require 2 weeks' service per year. Six years' service mandatory after conscription.

Everon Defense Battalion

approx 200 reservists, 3 T-55As, 7 BMP-1

Malden Defense Battalion

approx 250 reservists, 5 T-55A, 10 BMP-1

Nogova Defense Battalion

approx 400 reservists, 10 T-55s, 20 BMP-1/ BMP-2s and BTR-60/BTR-70s

Additional Reserve Equipment (in storage due to operating costs, lack of spare parts, poor servicibility, etc. Remnants of Soviet-supported coup in 1985)

3 T-72M

2 T-80U

5 BMP-1

6 BMP-2

2 ZSU-23-4

12 122mm Howitzers

6 Ferrret scout cars

Infantrymen (Foot) Personal Equipment:

1 set LBE style equipment. 1 ALICE-type rucksack.

1 Personal rifle, basic load of ammunition, two grenades.

2 sets BDU, 1 "Dress" uniform. BDU to be of the (Edge Camo pattern) Malden Highlands pattern.

1 Field Cap, 1 Helmet, 1 Beret (Parade Dress, Black with NDF insignia)

Infantryman (Mech) Personal Equipment:

1 set LBE equipment

Basic load of ammunition

Standard - issue assault weapon - folding stock variation if possible.

1 field cap, 1 helmet, 1 beret. (NDF insignia, Black with Mechanized corps insignia)

Infantryman (Parachutist) Personal Equipment:

Same as Mechanized, only with Rucksack, folding-or-sliding-stock assault weapon. Blue Beret with Airborne and NDF insignias.

Infantryman (Logistics,Support,HQ,HQRadioTech) Personal Equipment:

1 Sidearm, 3 magazines

Role-Specific equipment

2 Set BDU, 1 set dress, Field cap, beret (Black, Logistics insignia)

Vehicle:

First-Line Equipment (Active Forces):

T-64BV, T-64 tanks. Possible ERA plating on the more "Advanced" tanks.

BMD-3, BMP-2 IFV/APCs.

BTR-70, APC's

Ural and UAZ vehicles - UAZ cut-off tops with mounted PKT or NSV machineguns would work well as "Fast Attack" vehicles.

Second Line Equipment (Reserves):

T-55A tanks.

BMP-1 APC/IFVs

BTR-60

Ural trucks, regular UAZs. More cut-tops as there are fewer APC and IFV type vehicles.

Aircraft:

To be decided.

It is to be noted that all equipment is re-painted in the NDF colours.. with insignias in the proper places.

-AK

[The Frenchman 0]

I support having the NDF armed with ran's R-tech infantry firearms.

[GoOB 0]

Hrm... If a Swedish rifle is going to be used as an assault rifle by the NDF it would proobably be the AK4. The AK5 would be "far" too expensive for the NDF. KSP-M45 could serve as a sidearm for crewmembers and base personnel. Also a good choice for the navy or coastal patrol.

Standard issue machinegun... Personally I would love to see something Czech be put to use here. Or some domestic verion of the Bren gun or something.