The need for improved manpads

[Beagle 684]

Well, since BAS and others talented Mod Groups started to equip their Aircraft with countermeasures, its nearly impossible to shoot down helos like the BAS MH-60 and MH-47 series with MANPADS.

Are there some Improved MANPADS (man portable air defense systems) like Stinger or Igla-1 avaiable..?

If not... did someone consider to make them, just to readdress the balance...?

[edc 0]

Really, modern countermeasures would be pretty affective, so its probably realistic. I wish the flares/chaff would be unaffective on unguided missiles, like RPG, etc though.

[coporal_punishment 0]

.50cal Machine Guns, m60s, PKs they all do a great job but it takes a while though .

[hardrock 1]

At the ACES (Aircraft and Chopper Equipment Standard) project we are working on a unified chaff script, so that fights like that get a bit more fair and to avoid that one chopper has ineffective CM while another one is not able to be shot

their CM also work against unguided missiles?? I didn't try that, but if that's true we'll try to avoid this

[Beagle 684]

hmmm...I dont wanted to take that example, but if countermeasures are that effective, why are aircraft still hit and shot down...f.e. US CH-47s in Irak..?

It should also be considered, that not only Countermesures are improved, but SAM seekers to...!

[Guest]

The reason that was given was that the CH-47 might have been flying too low for the countermeasures to be effective. But no-one has really given a definitive answer on that one. To be realistic about it, counter-measures should occasionally fail....because that's life!

[@cero 0]

I allways though that counter-measures only work for radio guided weapons, not for heat seeking ones. Or at list on the 80s.

I allways though that.

Oviasly I was wrong. was I?

I been asking for a scripted fully working stinger for a long time That would be interesting.

[edc 0]

Chaff is effective against radar guided weapons, and flares are effective against infared(heat seeking) ones. From what I've heard, the Chinook in Iraq, might not have even had countermeasures.

[EiZei 0]

.50cal Machine Guns, m60s, PKs they all do a great job but it takes a while though .

I can easily down a Mi-17/Blackhawk with a .50cal.

[aj_addons 0]

the soviet AT4 and west carl guv are the best AA weapons hit something with one off these babies and its as dead as a doughnut

[ozanzac 0]

the soviet AT4 and west carl guv are the best AA weapons hit something with one off these babies and its as dead as a doughnut

AT4, you mean as in AT4 spigot, the anti tank weapon, I wouldn't be using that against...........

Oh, your talking Anti Armor. When I see AA I think Anti-Air. I think of Anti Armor as AT, Anti-Tank. My bad...... Or is that somebody elses bad?

[aj_addons 0]

nope i mean helicopters

[Acecombat 0]

Best cheap way is RPG and it doesnt activate anti-AA flares for me

[ozanzac 0]

Quote[/b] ]nope i mean helicopters

Ha ha har, very funny.

Which brings me to a very valid point. People like our funny little 'aj ' here shouldn't have to resort to using AT weapons to bring a chopper down when in actual fact, a Strela or Stinger should be able to do the job in one hit. And sometimes, it can take me as many as 3 misssiles (all that hit) to bring down a single Mi-24. I don't think thats realistic at all. Therefore, increase the damage values of Anti air missiles, cause a one hit, one kill policy should always apply for a chopper.

[Lt_Phoenix 0]

the soviet AT4 and west carl guv are the best AA weapons hit something with one off these babies and its as dead as a doughnut

I often use these too, due to the fact that the current AA weapons are too weak.

Haven't tried them much on choppers with CM though.

[aj_addons 0]

my favorite one has got to have been when in multiplayer i shot down a helicopter with a Bmp's sagger AT missile, the even funier thing was that the enitre opostion team was in the chinock at the time!!!

theres another way to get round the flares problem and that is dont use the lock on function on the strela and stinger and guide the missile yourself and snice the script only activates when the missile is locked on you get a nice toasty helicopter

wreck

[Mr. Snrub 0]

I'd love to see some new man-portable SAMs or even improved Stingers/Strelas...

AFAIK, noone has made any other hand-held SAM systems (except for, I suppose, the RPG-7s that target helicopters). Perhaps the most neglected field of weapons in OFP?

How about a Javelin, SA-16 Gimlet or Redeye?

Even some more static/vehicle-mounted SAMs would be nice, like the RBS-70, any number of Russian SAMs, Crotales etc.

[EiZei 0]

http://hem.passagen.se/finnish....1-1.jpg

Too bad OFP does not support wheeled vehicles and AA-missiles together.

[Beagle 684]

The improvement should affekt the hit Probability, not the amount of damage done to the aircraft.

A slower but more manouverabe Missile would do the Job.

For example: the Misiles used by the SA-6 and M-6 "Linebacker" Addons have a 50% hit probability against the MH-47, but the MANPADS version of the same missile (BIS Stinger and Strela) will allways miss.

This has to be adressed

[toadeater 0]

Coincidentally...

Army: Downed Chopper Used Defensive Systems

WASHINGTON — The Army helicopter shot down over Iraq last weekend apparently had a last-second warning of an approaching missile and managed to launch flares designed to draw the heat-seeking missile away, a senior Army official said Thursday.

It is not clear why the defensive moves did not work, but the official, who discussed the attack investigation on condition he not be identified, said U.S. officials believe the shooter simply got in a "lucky shot."

The helicopter was flying at between 200 and 300 feet, he said — meaning that the fast-moving missile, when fired at the correct angle of approach, allowed little time for its target to escape.

[miles teg 1]

Interesting. Yeah, the warning systems on US military aircraft against heat seeking missiles I imagine would require a second or two in order to dispense flares as there is no lock. I'm no ECM expert, but imagine that it detects heat seeking AA missiles in one of two ways... by the infrared signature of the missile exhaust and/or by radar. I imagine using some type of radar would be very difficult as there would be deadspots and spotty coverage at low altitudes. So I'm guessing that the system detects the IR signature of the missile's exhaust. By the time the flare launched the missile was probably too close to the helicopter for the flare to misguide the seeker.

However it's possible that it may have been a later model Russian made portable AA missile. But perhaps weapons experts looking at the wreckage have determined from pieces that it was a SA-7. If so then they indeed got very lucky as those old SA-7 missiles hardly ever hit their targets.

Apparently they can still do the job on occasion.

But also remember that two missiles were fired and the second one missed.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[edc 0]

The countermeasures system probably looks for the infared signature of the missile, as infared systems are passive, ie they look for an infared signature, they don't send anything out.

[aj_addons 0]

for a helicopter flying towards you or away from you all you need is some sort of wire guided at missle or rpg as your trying to cope with thing moveing across your view

[Badassdom 0]

to shoot down a heli with a stinger or something similar you have to be near it fight path and then its still difficult but the succes very much depends on the skill of the soldier

look at iraq the rebels have just shot down one chopper because they aren't well trained ,but if they get trained their succes rate will go up

look at the mujahadeen in afganistan against the russians

their succes rate was much higher because of the CIA training they received

But with the Bas blackhawks the rocket bents away from the chopper after ignoring the flares(at least that is what it looks like to me)

[aj_addons 0]

thats why you track the chopper manuely and dont use lock on that way you dont activate the incoming missile eventhandler and as a result the flares arnt activated