War against terror

[Colossus 2]

Quote[/b] ]§8)Remove image tags when quoting a post containing an image

If you quote a post that contains an image please remove the image tag so that the link is posted not the image, it helps keep the thread tidy and easier to read if the same image isn't being posted repeatedly, you need only delete one [ to stop the image from hotlinking.

Just wanted you to know.

[Akira 0]

THis is good a place as any to put this:

On CNN:

Quote[/b] ]BREAKING NEWS

Saudi Arabia declares state of alert, cancels leave of security forces, after ailing King Fahd taken to hospital, Interior Ministry source tells CNN.

[Nemesis6 0]

Surely you understand that Israel is far from innocent when it comes to the causes of its current conflict with the Palestinians?

I'd like you to elaborate on that sentence if you don't mind...

[Acecombat 0]

THis is good a place as any to put this:

On CNN:

Quote[/b] ]BREAKING NEWS

Saudi Arabia declares state of alert, cancels leave of security forces, after ailing King Fahd taken to hospital, Interior Ministry source tells CNN.

Nothing new , the guys a cat hes got nine or perhaps nine hundred lives , he goes in bad condition seemingly as if hes gonna come out in a box but everytime he comes back alright. I wonder what drugs he gets ....

But i dont see what this has to do with war on terror .

[chops 111]

Surely you understand that Israel is far from innocent when it comes to the causes of its current conflict with the Palestinians?

I'd like you to elaborate on that sentence if you don't mind...

Well... if UN resolutions are anything to judge by, Israel has defied double the number of UN resolutions than Iraq ever did, that's not even counting the number of resoluitions that the US vetoed in the first place.

Quote[/b] ]During the period between 1967 and 2000, Iraq was the subject of 69 Security Council resolutions. By comparison, Israel, our closest "ally" in the Middle East, has been the subject of 138 resolutions. Not surprisingly, most of those resolutions call upon Israel to comply with basic principles of international law embodied by the UN Charter

From here...

[SFWanabe 0]

Id they are sooooo superior to everyone else then how come they cant bare for they're women to show they're faces?

[SPQR 0]

Because they are ninjas

[SFWanabe 0]

Because they are ninjas

They're about as cowardly as ninjas I'll say that much.

[ralphwiggum 6]

hmmm...good info or bad info? anyone would like to run cost-benefit ratio analysis?

http://news.yahoo.com/s....wN3bA--

Quote[/b] ]SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico - They fed them well. The Pakistani tribesmen slaughtered a sheep in honor of their guests, Arabs and Chinese Muslims famished from fleeing U.S. bombing in the Afghan mountains. But their hosts had ulterior motives: to sell them to the Americans, said the men who are now prisoners at Guantanamo Bay.

Bounties ranged from $3,000 to $25,000, the detainees testified during military tribunals, according to transcripts the U.S. government gave The Associated Press to comply with a Freedom of Information lawsuit.

A former     CIA intelligence officer who helped lead the search for     Osama bin Laden told AP the accounts sounded legitimate because U.S. allies regularly got money to help catch Taliban and al-Qaida fighters. Gary Schroen said he took a suitcase of $3 million in cash into     Afghanistan himself to help supply and win over warlords to fight for U.S. Special Forces.

"It wouldn't surprise me if we paid rewards," said Schroen, who retired after 32 years in the CIA soon after the fall of Kabul in late 2001. He recently published the book "First In: An Insider's Account of How the CIA Spearheaded the War on Terror in Afghanistan."

Schroen said Afghan warlords like Gen. Rashid Dostum were among those who received bundles of notes. "It may be that we were giving rewards to people like Dostum because his guys were capturing a lot of Taliban and al-Qaida," he said.

Pakistan has handed hundreds of suspects to the Americans, but Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed told the AP, "No one has taken any money."

The U.S. departments of Defense, Justice and State and the     Central Intelligence Agency also said they were unaware of bounty payments being made for random prisoners.

The U.S. Rewards for Justice program pays only for information that leads to the capture of suspected terrorists identified by name, said Steve Pike, a State Department spokesman. Some $57 million has been paid under the program, according to its Web site.

It offers rewards up to $25 million for information leading to the capture of al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

But a wide variety of detainees at the U.S. lockup at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, alleged they were sold into capture. Their names and other identifying information were blacked out in the transcripts from the tribunals, which were held to determine whether prisoners were correctly classified as enemy combatants.

One detainee who said he was an Afghan refugee in Pakistan accused the country's intelligence service of trumping up evidence against him to get bounty money from the U.S.

"When I was in jail, they said I needed to pay them money and if I didn't pay them, they'd make up wrong accusations about me and sell me to the Americans and I'd definitely go to Cuba," he told the tribunal. "After that I was held for two months and 20 days in their detention, so they could make wrong accusations about me and my (censored), so they could sell us to you."

Another prisoner said he was on his way to Germany in 2001 when he was captured and sold for "a briefcase full of money" then flown to Afghanistan before being sent to Guantanamo.

"It's obvious. They knew Americans were looking for Arabs, so they captured Arabs and sold them — just like someone catches a fish and sells it," he said. The detainee said he was seized by "mafia" operatives somewhere in Europe and sold to Americans because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time — an Arab in a foreign country.

A detainee who said he was a Saudi businessman claimed, "The Pakistani police sold me for money to the Americans."

"This was part of a roundup of all foreigners and Arabs in that area," of Pakistan near the Afghan border, he said, telling the tribunal he went to Pakistan in November 2001 to help Afghan refugees.

The military-appointed representative for one detainee — who said he was a Taliban fighter — said the prisoner told him he and his fellow fighters "were tricked into surrendering to Rashid Dostum's forces. Their agreement was that they would give up their arms and return home. But Dostum's forces sold them for money to the U.S."

Several detainees who appeared to be ethnic Chinese Muslims — known as Uighurs — described being betrayed by Pakistani tribesmen along with about 100 Arabs.

They said they went to Afghanistan for military training to fight for independence from China. When U.S. warplanes started bombing near their camp, they fled into the mountains near Tora Bora and hid for weeks, starving.

One detainee said they finally followed a group of Arabs, apparently fighters, being guided by an Afghan to the Pakistani border.

"We crossed into Pakistan and there were tribal people there, and they took us to their houses and they killed a sheep and cooked the meat and we ate," he said.

That night, they were taken to a mosque, where about 100 Arabs also sheltered. After being fed bread and tea, they were told to leave in groups of 10, taken to a truck, and driven to a Pakistani prison. From there, they were handed to Americans and flown to Guantanamo.

"When we went to Pakistan the local people treated us like brothers and gave us good food and meat," said another detainee. But soon, he said, they were in prison in Pakistan where "we heard they sold us to the Pakistani authorities for $5,000 per person."

There have been reports of Arabs being sold to the Americans after the U.S.-led offensive in Afghanistan, but the testimonies offer the most detail from prisoners themselves.

In March 2002, the AP reported that Afghan intelligence offered rewards for the capture of al-Qaida fighters — the day after a five-hour meeting with U.S. Special Forces. Intelligence officers refused to say if the two events were linked and if the United States was paying the offered reward of 150 million Afghanis, then equivalent to $4,000 a head.

That day, leaflets and loudspeaker announcements promised "the big prize" to those who turned in al-Qaida fighters.

Said one leaflet: "You can receive millions of dollars. ... This is enough to take care of your family, your village, your tribe for the rest of your life — pay for livestock and doctors and school books and housing for all your people."

Helicopters broadcast similar announcements over the Afghan mountains, enticing people to "Hand over the Arabs and feed your families for a lifetime," said Najeeb al-Nauimi, a former Qatar justice minister and leader of a group of Arab lawyers representing nearly 100 detainees.

Al-Nauimi said a consortium of wealthy Arabs, including Saudis, told him they also bought back fellow citizens who had been captured by Pakistanis.

Khalid al-Odha, who started a group fighting to free 12 Kuwaiti detainees, said his imprisoned son, Fawzi, wrote him a letter from Guantanamo Bay about Kuwaitis being sold to the Americans in Afghanistan.

One Kuwaiti who was released, 26-year-old Nasser al-Mutairi, told al-Odha that interrogators said Dostum's forces sold them to the Pakistanis for $5,000 each, and the Pakistanis in turn sold them to the Americans.

"I also heard that Saudis were sold to the Saudi government by the Pakistanis," al-Odha said. "If I had known that, I would have gone and bought my son back."

[Bordoy 0]

Not sure if anyone picked anything up on this

Quote[/b] ]Hamas link to London mosque

A MUSLIM leader appointed to help to run the recently reopened Finsbury Park mosque in north London is a former military commander of Hamas, the Palestinian terrorist organisation. Mohammed Kassem Sawalha is one of five trustees appointed to give the mosque a fresh start.

The mosque was closed last year after becoming a centre of Islamic militancy under Abu Hamza al-Masri, the radical cleric facing charges in Britain and America.

Sawalha’s link with Hamas emerged after he was named as a co-conspirator in an American court case involving racketeering and conspiracy. Last week the cleric, who arrived in Britain 15 years ago and has been given indefinite leave to remain, said that he still supported Hamas, notorious for its suicide attacks in Israel.

However, he said he was committed to peace in Britain and would help to run the mosque in an open and inclusive way. “I am supported by the Muslim community and have been working ever since I arrived for that community,†he said.

Asked whether he supported the military activities of Hamas, he replied: “I have no comment on the question of military activity. I am working here to give a new direction to this mosque and break with the past.â€

According to US court documents, Sawalha was a leading militant in the early 1990s “in charge of Hamas terrorist operations within the West Bankâ€. The documents, from the federal court in Chicago, claim he met two of the three “conspirators†accused of laundering millions of dollars to finance Hamas activities, including the purchase of weapons.

The purpose of the first meeting with the men was alleged to have been to discuss revitalising Hamas’s operations. He met one of the men a second time in London in January 1993. Sawalha allegedly directed him “to provide money to various Hamas members and provided him with contact informationâ€.

Although Sawalha is named as a co-conspirator, he has not been charged. Asked last week if he faced arrest in the United States, Sawalha said: “I have not tried to travel there.â€

Sawalha was president of the Muslim Association of Britain which is believed to have links to the Muslim Brotherhood, one of the oldest radical Islamic groups.

Abu Hamza is in prison facing trial in Britain on 16 charges, including incitement to murder, intending to stir up racial hatred and being in possession of a document “likely to be useful†to someone plotting terrorism. He is also awaiting extradition hearings on a warrant issued by the US Department of Justice.

Following his arrest a group of his supporters tried to take over the mosque, but after extensive discussion between the surviving trustees of the charity that runs the mosque — including Mohammed Sarwar, the Labour MP, the police and the Charity Commission, which had closed it — five new trustees were appointed.

Last night Sarwar, MP for Glasgow Govan, said he would remain a trustee despite being told of Sawalha’s links to Hamas. He was happy with the way the mosque was being run by the new trustees: “The Muslim community is delighted that the Abu Hamza regime is gone and the mosque is open.â€

Barry Norman, the Metropolitan police chief superintendent who has been working closely with the trustees, said: “I am aware of the background, but if I took the view that I’m not working with this or that person I’d end up spending my whole life in my office.â€

Hopefully it's nothing and the person has changed.

[SFWanabe 0]

Surely you understand that Israel is far from innocent when it comes to the causes of its current conflict with the Palestinians?

I'd like you to elaborate on that sentence if you don't mind...

Well Israel started the 2000 conflict by invading the occupided territories largely unprovked

[baff 0]

Israel is a rogue state. It is has illegal WMD and it is more than a threat to regional security, it is an active participant in it's instability.

It's a violent and repressive culture engaged in a cynical land grab from it's weaker neighbours.

Considering the history of the Jewish people in the last century the behaviour of the Israeli society is all the more sickening. No one people in all the world should know better.

It is very difficult in the extreme to have sympathies with the state of Israel.

It takes a really ugly bunch of people to be less lovable than the Palestinians.

[SFWanabe 0]

Quote[/b] ]It is has illegal WMD

There has been no soild proof to confirm nor deny that fact.

Quote[/b] ]It's a violent and repressive culture engaged in a cynical land grab from it's weaker neighbours.

Also that is not true. The Jewish people have been threatened by the surrounding arab states since the first few hours of its birth. Israel has only been trying to reclaim land it claims as they're's but that doesnt mean I agree with needlessly asking for violence like what they did in 2000.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Israel has only been trying to reclaim land it claims as they're's but that doesnt mean I agree with needlessly asking for violence like what they did in 2000.

I must have a foggy memory about what happened in 2000...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Aqsa_Intifada

Quote[/b] ]On September 27, Sgt. David Biri (http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Memorial/2000/Sgt+David+Biri.htm) (Information from Israeli government (http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0ijw0)) was killed; Israeli sources typically view this as the start of the Intifada.

On September 28, 2000, in the West Bank city of Kalkilya, a Palestinian police officer working with Israeli police on a joint patrol opened fire and killed his Israeli counterpart. That same day the Israeli opposition leader Ariel Sharon visited the Temple Mount (called Har HaBayt in Hebrew, Al-Haram As-Sharif in Arabic) in the Old City of Jerusalem, the holiest site for Judaism, the third holiest site in Islam, and a place of special significance to Christianity.

Palestinians claim East Jerusalem, which Israel unilaterally annexed in 1980, as their capital. Palestinians, the UN and many countries consider East Jerusalem to be part of the Israeli-occupied West Bank or at least disputed, and treat Tel Aviv as the Israeli capital. Israel considers the whole of Jerusalem to be the Israeli capital, and part of Israel.

Sharon's impending visit was officially announced in advance, and prior to it some moderates on both sides protested, because of his controversial political stance and his massive armed bodyguard — over 1,000 strong. He was warned that this could lead to riots but Sharon declared that he went to the site with a message of peace. On the site, he publically proclaimed the area as eternal Israeli territory, reiterating Israel's official policy, according to the Jerusalem Law passed by the Knesset in 1980.

The day after Sharon's visit, following Friday prayers, large riots broke out around Old Jerusalem; during the riots, several Palestinians were shot dead. A 12-year-old boy, Muhammad al-Durrah, and his father were caught in crossfire between Palestinian militiamen and the IDF, attempting to hide behind a concrete water barrel. Images of the boy's death were captured on videotape and broadcast around the world, causing much outrage. In subsequent riots in early October a total of twelve Arab-Israelis and one Palestinian were shot and killed by Israeli police. The violence quickly escalated and in the first six days of the Intifada, 61 Palestinians were killed and 2,657 were injured.

On October 12, two Israeli reservists who entered Ramallah were arrested by the PA police. Because the soldiers were dressed in civilian clothes and one was reportedly wearing a Palestinian headdress, they were suspected of belonging to an undercover Israeli assassination squad. An agitated Palestinian mob stormed the police station, beat the soldiers to death, and threw their mutilated bodies into the street. The killings were captured on video and broadcast on TV, outraging Israeli public opinion. [10] (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/969778.stm) [11] (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/mideast.htm#readmore) [12] (http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2000/504/pal92.htm) [13] (http://archives.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/meast/10/12/mideast.violence.03/) In response, Israel launched a series of retaliatory air strikes against the Palestinian Authority.

[SFWanabe 0]

Israel used that incident to re occupy the west bank. Also Sharon didnt just visit Temple Mount he more or less took it over. That my friend is asking for needless violence.

[billybob2002 0]

Israel used that incident to re occupy the west bank. Also Sharon didnt just visit Temple Mount he more or less took it over. That my friend is asking for needless violence.

What is the saying...Sticks and stones made break my bones but words never will (something like that).

[nSe7eN 0]

Israel used that incident to re occupy the west bank. Also Sharon didnt just visit Temple Mount he more or less took it over. That my friend is asking for needless violence.

That visit was more than unnecessary.

When someone with such history visits such place, I think he is really looking for problems!

Which he successfully caused!

[SFWanabe 0]

Amen brother.

[baff 0]

The Israeli government gives financial grants to settlers to move into the occupied territories. (Even to this very roadmapped day).

It also Forceably destroys Palestian building on the borders to create a safe no mans land, (and then builds in that no mans land and has to knock down some more Palestinan buildings to make it safe again, and so on.

Your living in the past if you think Israel lives in fear of it's neighbours.

The Yom Kippur war reversed all that.

It's the regional superpower. It bombs it's neighbours at will and without retaliation. They daren't even return fire.

I'm aware that it is an artificially created nation and that the Palestinians were kicked out to make room for them, I'm also aware that the they grabed a load of land off of Syria in the six day war. Something I feel they were very justified to do.

To say they are surrounded on all sides by people who hate them is a bit of an understatement. The entire world hates them.

It takes a truley horrific society to completely turn around the sympathies of the entire planet in 60 years flat.

By the way exactly what kind of proof were you suggesting anyone would need about Israeli WMD?

Why not read up on some of it for yourself here (taken from a U.S. bias) at http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/

[Warin 0]

Illegal WMD?

The state of Israel is a sovereign nation.  They have the right to develop weapon systems with which to defend themselves.  If you feel that Israel's WMD are illegal, then obviously you feel that similar weapon systems within the aresenals of the USA are illegal as well, and thus Bush is as bad as Saddam and Osama for not freeing his nation of them?

Just curious.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

baff-

Quote[/b] ]The Israeli government gives financial grants to settlers to move into the occupied territories. (Even to this very roadmapped day).

It also Forceably destroys Palestian building on the borders to create a safe no mans land, (and then builds in that no mans land and has to knock down some more Palestinan buildings to make it safe again, and so on.

It is worth mentioning that they are now providing financial incentives for settlers to move out of their settlements (i believe in the west bank?), which seems like a sensible if inconsistent policy. Also in the news the Israeli court backs the pullout plan .

I think and hope one day, if a lasting peace is found Israelis may come to regret the repressive actions and some of the license given to settlers just as i regret some of the actions of the British army in Northern Ireland (and as we can see regret expressed under the Truth and Reconciliation system in South Africa).

There are numbers of secularists, socialists, minority groups and others in Israel. With so many immigrants from different parts of the world and belief systems im not sure you can really talk about any -homogeneous- 'culture' of violence and repression, yes Israel is a militaristic society but if you look into its history thats not overly surprising. Im no fan of a great number of the actions of the state of Israel but i wouldnt say i hate 'them', nor do i think its true or quite fair to say the 'entire world hates them'.

I agree though that Israel is the regional power now and the days for arabs of 'pushing them back into the sea' or whatever are long past (whatever rhetoric may be maintained by some palestineans). The idea that as the greatest regional power Israel should show restraint is one that i agree with, but i also accept that when the suicide bombers arent coming your way its easy to say that. Did Britain show restraint in much of the Thatcher era, or did France show restraint in Algeria? For that matter its questionable to what extent the United States have shown restraint since 11/09/01 (what with apparent Guantanamo bay abuses of power + Abu ghraib, multiple prisoners dieing in detention, the high altitude bombing of Afghanistan etc).

[AKM 0]

Quote[/b] ]Illegal WMD?

The state of Israel is a sovereign nation.  They have the right to develop weapon systems with which to defend themselves.  If you feel that Israel's WMD are illegal, then obviously you feel that similar weapon systems within the aresenals of the USA are illegal as well, and thus Bush is as bad as Saddam and Osama for not freeing his nation of them?

Sure they do. I think it's funny how America and their political, economic, and military lackey, Israel, think it's OK to force legislation through without applying it to themselves. If something happens in the UN that America doesn't like, they Veto it, and Israel vetoes it as well. Which means that in the Western world, it is very rarely reported and often described as "Leftist Propaganda," frighteningly enough, by the more and more authoritarian / totalitarian pseudo-religious fundamentalist cult that is the American Government. What the Fuck happened to "Seperation of Church and State?"

I think it's easy to say that the modern-day Israelites are essentially the Nazis of the Middle East. They are continuing to carry out a expansionist, genocidal campaign against their territorial neighbours and they continue to oppress the Araboushim through extravagantly violent means; recall three Hellfire ATGM missiles and a blind parapeleagic in a wheelchair outside a Mosque after morning prayers? Remember the literally hundreds of people who volunteered to be suicide bombers after that?

In essention, Israel is creating it's own problems at this stage. The point where they can be annhilated militarily no longer exists with such great American force in-region, unless the Israelites do something the Americans dislike. The Americans, not the "Terrorists" are the real threat to global security here.

In closing, I don't hate the Israelites, I hate their government. I don't hate the Germans, but I intensely dislike Nazism, a more... German-engineered, efficent form of Italian Fascism.

Quote[/b] ]It's the regional superpower. It bombs it's neighbours at will and without retaliation. They daren't even return fire.

There have been recorded cases where a single shot, fired into the air, has sparked a ONE HOUR LONG retaliatory fire from all Israeli assets in region, including shots from Merkava main-guns! This round was fired into the air to demonstrate the stark reality to a Western observer.

Quote[/b] ]Israel is a rogue state. It is has illegal WMD and it is more than a threat to regional security, it is an active participant in it's instability.

Israel is not a rogue state. Israel has American backing, and thus they are untouchable. They are not a rogue state. They are probably one of the three "Justifiable" states, the other being the UK and the final being the Americans. Again. As you have yet to learn, the Americans constantly redefine the geopolitical map as they strive for hegemony in an incredibly accelerated timeframe.

Regarding WMD, it's never been proven that they possess these. But; it was never proven that Iraq possessed any WMD other than chemical agents that were expended gassing Kurds and the Iranians. And these agents were given to the Iraqis by the Americans.

The entire "War on Terror" is a fucking farce. In Chechnya, it's simply a genocidal vendetta between the Russians (Slavs and their Pan-Slavic 'allies') and the Chechens. In the Middle East, it's essentially a grab for petroluem reserves by the two regional superpowers with the British coming in on the coat-tails of the Americans, and any actual "Counterterror" operations are directed more at the governments in power in said regions than at any kind of "Insurgents" or "Terrorists" on the ground, in order to make the area more "Pro-America."

In this day and age, where simply saying that George Bush is a moron, which is undeniably true, has you labeled "Anti-American," or talking about sources and data other than that provided by the dominant media and the government proper, also has you labeled a "Anti-American," something is severly, severly wrong.

A lot of you will disagree with me. Hell, in review, I'll disagree with myself on some articles. But it's been a day and a half since I last managed to sleep, and I'm halfway through trying to drink myself into a stupor.

The final point, is to garner multiple reliable information leads and those are usually from the "left", but not Michael Moore. Oh no, that fat bastard is using what's happening for "Shock Value" rather than factual accuracy. Keep in mind that the Democrats and the Republicans are essentially the same party and that the same overall scheme of things would be in place regardless of who actually won the election. The Americans have been doing this since they declared the Manifest Destiny back in the 17-1800s.

And finally, and I mean it this time, I'll apologize to anyone I may have offended in advance. I'll be sleeping (God Willing / Insh'Allah) for the next dozen hours so I'll be unable to reply directly. Open your eyes, gather yourself some data from multiple reliable sources, and draw yourself "the big picture."

If you like what you're seeing, you're probably a right-wing American.

[SFWanabe 0]

Quote[/b] ]Sure they do.

Theres no such thing as Illegal WMDs AKM and Baff.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]If something happens in the UN that America doesn't like, they Veto it, and Israel vetoes it as well. Which means that in the Western world, it is very rarely reported and often described as "Leftist Propaganda," frighteningly enough, by the more and more authoritarian / totalitarian pseudo-religious fundamentalist cult that is the American Government. What the Fuck happened to "Seperation of Church and State?"

The US has vetoed 10 Security Council resolutions from 2000-4 with nations abstaining in each of those vetoes. There were 59 SC resolutions alone in 2004. Also, Israel can't be on the SC and does not have veto power. Do you even know what is a authoritarian / totalitarian pseudo-religious fundamentalist cult?

Quote[/b] ]recall three Hellfire ATGM missiles and a blind parapeleagic in a wheelchair outside a Mosque after morning prayers? Remember the literally hundreds of people who volunteered to be suicide bombers after that?

Should I shed a tear for that jackass thug? It's sad that they will die for that thug.

Quote[/b] ]The Americans, not the "Terrorists" are the real threat to global security here.

:/

Quote[/b] ]There have been recorded cases where a single shot, fired into the air, has sparked a ONE HOUR LONG retaliatory fire from all Israeli assets in region, including shots from Merkava main-guns! This round was fired into the air to demonstrate the stark reality to a Western observer

There have been recorded cases that Hamas has fired rockets from Lebanon.

Quote[/b] ]

Regarding WMD, it's never been proven that they possess these. But; it was never proven that Iraq possessed any WMD other than chemical agents that were expended gassing Kurds and the Iranians. And these agents were given to the Iraqis by the Americans.

Actually, Iraq developed the chemical agents (which are WMDs) and the US companies gave dual-use technology. Also, them modern Nazis prevented Iraq from obtaining nuclear weapons.

Quote[/b] ]In essention, Israel is creating it's own problems at this stage.

The Israeli govt. has to walk on a fine line and not try to piss off the right-wing Israelis. You remember the last time that happened when they fell off that line. BTW, Palestinian should not be getting a free passs on the violence.

[Warin 0]

I object to the use of the word "Nazi" in reference to the state of Israel.

Feel free to point out whatever flaws/strengths you see in the government of Israel, but stop with the specious comparisons of the Jewish people to the Nazi's. It is insensitive and amazingly ignorant of historical fact. Please stop it.

One thing I will agree with Billybob on is taht there aer elements of the Palstinian people and government which believes terrorism is a tool for change. Israeil might employ an iron fist at times, but I hardly think it is completely unjustified. Both sides hold pretty much equal blame for the terrorism in that bit of the Middle East.