Arms trade

[denoir 0]

Found this on BBC and found it quite interesting.

Quote[/b] ]Governments spend more than $700bn (?442bn) on their armed forces every year and official annual arms sales value up to $30bn (?18.9bn). BBC News Online looks at the international arms trade as London hosts Europe’s biggest arms fair

Quote[/b] ]What do weapons cost?

Quote[/b] ]Who buys and who sells?

Quote[/b] ]UK exports – how much and who to?

Quote[/b] ]Which companies make the weapons?

I was surprised that Sweden was not listed as many countries use both the CarlGustaf and AT4. On the other hand I don't see Belgium listed as well even though Fabrique National is one of the major small arms producers in the world.  

[hellfish6 7]

Wasn't FN bought out by some kind of multinational corporation? And I don't think Sweden was included because Carl Gustavs and AT4s aren't nearly as expensive as fighter aircraft and ships. Then again, they are started to get a lot of customers for the CV3030 (?) IFV (Finland and one or two others IIRC) and the Grippen (South Africa I know is buying some).

[Major Gripe 0]

What is the US buying from Britain that costs 256.5m GBP? I thought that Bush was trying to encourage Americans to buy American goods to get the economy going, so what kind of example does this set?

BTW does anyone else appreciate the irony in Britain supplying arms to both Pakistan and India? Devious sods us Brits!!  

[denoir 0]

And I don't think Sweden was included because Carl Gustavs and AT4s aren't nearly as expensive as fighter aircraft and ships.

That's a very goot point. You get quite a few rifles for a jet

Gripen isn't selling as much as they expected and it's fairly cheap (you get four JAS for the price of one F15).

But still, Bofors produces a lot of artillery, missiles etc.. I'm surprised that they're not on the top-ten list.

[Renagade 0]

I wonder how much the sa80 costs.I`ve heard of it being  about 600 quid which is still higher than the m16 at $586.

[edit] wtf,stupid fuckin forum screws up the pound sign

Quote[/b] ]about £600 which

[denoir 0]

BTW does anyone else appreciate the irony in Britain supplying arms to both Pakistan and India? Devious sods us Brits!!

Nothing odd about that. Sweden does it too. You can forget about moral and ethics when it comes to arms trade.

Swedish corporations are forbidden by Swedish law to sell weapons to warring parties but they are allowed to sell spare parts to already sold systems. In the case of India and Pakistan they sold howitzers as "spare parts" to artillery shells and some logistics systems that they had sold before the conflict. Even in the Iraq war now Ericsson provided the US military with radar systems with the full approval of our government, which incidentally was against the war.

Quote[/b] ]wtf,stupid fuckin forum screws up the pound sign  

It's a sign! Switch to €!!

[Tovarish 0]

$400-600 for an AK-47 is the most expensive figure I've ever seen  . I would assume that applies to the newer models. Heck, they've been starting to phase out the Ak-74 for a while now. (but the original with the higher caliber still sells well on the export market).

[Tex -USMC- 0]

$400-600 for an AK-47 is the most expensive figure I've ever seen  . I would assume that applies to the newer models. Heck, they've been starting to phase out the Ak-74 for a while now. (but the original  with the higher caliber still sells well on the export market).

That number has to be for a brand new rifle- 'previously enjoyed' AK47s tend to sell much lower.

[denoir 0]

Yeah. Those are however probably the real legal export figures. The black market price for a Zastava M80 (superior to the Ak-74) in good condition was about 100-150 € in Kosovo. For 400 € you could get a HK G36 in original package!

I guess a good source of cheap AKs today would be Iraq.

[NurEinMensch 0]

[...]For 400 € you could get a HK G36 in original package!

[...]

Really something that makes me mad. How do those get into the black market anyways? Someone should start looking into this a lot more serious!

We have rather strict laws on gun ownership in Germany but apparently every [insert really bad word here] can trade with them and somehow get them into the black market.

That's so wrong, especially since I can't own one legally.

[red oct 2]

$400 to $600 dollars for a AK47? whata rip-off. If you look in the right places in my state you can get a semi automatic AK47 from 200 to 400 dollars.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

An SA80 is more expensive than either a G36 or M16 variant, not sure exactly but ..more expensive.

Arms dealers have *always* sold weapons to both sides of a conflict.

[SKULLS_Viper 0]

$400 to $600 dollars for a AK47? whata rip-off. If you look in the right places in my state you can get a semi automatic AK47 from 200 to 400 dollars.

Ditto.I know in some countrys, you can get 'em even cheaper then $100.(Africa I think).

And $500 for an M16?Dang, I'm gettin ripped of for an AR15 for $1200.

[red oct 2]

$1200? why so much? Bushmasters are only supposed to cost about $800.

[black__bird 0]

do believe some of the prices listed are inaccurate.....FAS.org who i have found to be fairly reliable quotes the F-15 as costing $43million not $105million. Also documents i have suggest that the AH-64 in the Delta/ Longbow configuration to cost only $20-$22million and not $50 million.

[red oct 2]

After looking at the first chart, im a little currious as to when the US decided to sell B-2 Spirits. B-2 bombers are never housed in other countries, they take off and land only in the U.S. and to this day are still considered classified. Why would we sell them to other countries if we are so concerned about secrets?

[The Frenchman 0]

Why would we sell them to other countries if we are so concerned about secrets?

Thats a good question.

[red oct 2]

not only that, but why bother selling stealth bombers to europe? there aren't too many european countries that could afford to buy and maintain such military hardware, and more importantly they wouldn't have a need for them. 3rd world countries aren't really likely buyers for a billion dollar bomber either.

[Badgerboy 0]

It's a question of cost. Not many countries can afford to buy a B2 for a billion each. To sell equipment like that requires the recipient country to be 'trustworthy', an 'ally', and loaded.

Britain for example is in possession of all of the US' stealth technology, but only under the guarantee they do not share it with anyone else. This caused friction with other Euro countries, as Britain tends to build aircraft in co-operation with other Euro countries, but would reveal any stealth tech to them. (France was pretty pissed about that actually). This isn't much help to the UK however, as they cannot afford to build their own 'stealthy fighter' without Euro support. (Ignore the JSF for the moment)

Likewise, releasing information like that can lead to new breakthroughs. (DERA's pretty reliable when it comes to that)

Basically it comes down to self interest or money. Remember all those F14's sold to Iran? At the time it was like another country buying a quantity of F-22's today. The Shah however, had a very large purse to dip into, so the fact that they were selling top of the line fighters to an unstable regime mattered not.

Money talks! (If Switzerland wanted B2's, they could get them)

[red oct 2]

So that would also explain why Britians RAF and Royal Navy is the only European military that will be buying the JSF fighter to replace their aging Harriers? If the French were annoyed about Britian not sharing the stealth technology than i wonder how upset they will be when when Britian is the only country in the EU to have stealth fighters.

[Badgerboy 0]

So that would also explain why Britians RAF and Royal Navy is the only European military that will be buying the JSF fighter to replace their aging Harriers? If the French were annoyed about Britian not sharing the stealth technology than i wonder how upset they will be when when Britian is the only country in the EU to have stealth fighters.

Anyone can get JSF, you just need to have the cash! JSF isn't strictly a true stealth aircraft however, it just has a very low RCS. (Radar Cross Section).

However, buying and flying the buggers, and knowing how to build them are two different things. BAe (UK) is building many parts of the JSF (The UK are level one parcipatants in the program, hence the information released to them from the US), whilst countries like the Netherlands are level 3, and don't qualify for specific information.

(BTW, you have to pay to get membership in the development program if your not invited! )

[Commander-598 0]

And $500 for an M16?Dang, I'm gettin ripped of for an AR15 for $1200.

Doesn't make much sense does it...

A fully working M16 is $500-$600, but Semi-Auto AR-15s that are identicle in every other way, cost $1000+

[drewb99 0]

Speaking of stealth, Locheed came up with this and proposed it to the RAF as a replacement for the Tornado GR4-

[Milkman 1]

And $500 for an M16?Dang, I'm gettin ripped of for an AR15 for $1200.

Doesn't make much sense does it...

A fully working M16 is $500-$600, but Semi-Auto AR-15s that are identicle in every other way, cost $1000+

Thats because Bushmasters and Armalites are sold to civilian and police forces. Colt manufactures the Military version of the Armalite, and because they sell it to the military there are no silly taxes to pay. They also produce it in large quanities so parts are far more cheaper for Colt than they are for smaller companies like Bushmaster.

If I wanted an Ak-47, in reasonable condition, a four hour drive to mexico will get me one for about $250, and thats on the legal market. The only problem is getting it back into the US.....

Speaking of the price listing for the Longbow and F-15, I beleive those are the prices for a fully-equipped, fully-loaded aircraft. Electronics, armaments, and fuel. Although that Sukoi is a very good deal, I think it should be more like $30 mil.

[SKULLS_Viper 0]

And $500 for an M16?Dang, I'm gettin ripped of for an AR15 for $1200.

Doesn't make much sense does it...

A fully working M16 is $500-$600, but Semi-Auto AR-15s that are identicle in every other way, cost $1000+

$1245.00 for a Bushmaster Varminter Rifle, at a local gun store(But I have seen a Bushmaster at Sportsman Warehouse for about $800, should of waited   .The only diffrents is a V Match Tubular Forend and flutted barrel.