Un dropping ball in congo?

[PitViper 0]

not looking good.  *shakes head*

http://www.opinion.telegraph.co.uk/news....al.html

what a mess.

[FSPilot 0]

the UN has dropped more balls than me playing a basketball game.

Think the US will get involved?

[PitViper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ 13 May 2003,01:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Think the US will get involved?<span id='postcolor'>

The U.S military is already stretched to capacity.  The UN needs to get some other members to commit.

[ralphwiggum 6]

my advice to US poliy makers. stay the hell out of there.

unless you want to be labled as another US imperialists.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ 13 May 2003,08:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">my advice to US poliy makers. stay the hell out of there.<span id='postcolor'>

Don't worry.

I've never seen a policy maker go into these places.

[killagee 0]

My film developer is from the Congo. He's got some real scary stories to tell. I think the UN must act now. The Europen Ready Reaction Force, along with Australian, NZ, African and East European allies are capable of stabalising the situation. Much of the problem is aggrevated by the diffirent african governments supporting the various sides of the war... War in the Congo , as in many places, had become a logistical process and too many people are profiting off it, mostly the 5 permanent members of the Security council who sell weapons ( second hand through third party african states and companies).

Politicians stink

[theavonlady 2]

Seriousness aside for a second, that description would make for an interesting OFP mod.

[Cloney 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ 13 May 2003,07:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the UN has dropped more balls than me playing a basketball game.

Think the US will get involved?<span id='postcolor'>

If we do get involved we are playing "the world policeman", if we don't get involved we are "condoning genocide". Let the Euro's deal with this one, if they want to whine about it then *maybe* they can do something about it. It's like a little kid who spills his juice on the floor and cries about it forever until Daddy finally comes and cleans it up for him.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ 13 May 2003,07:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the UN has dropped more balls than me playing a basketball game.

Think the US will get involved?<span id='postcolor'>

If you didn't know the US is part of the UN as well. The UN is not a magical autonomous organization - it consists of the countries that are members.

So sending in UN forces means also sending in US forces.

Now having said that, I think indeed the UN should get involved but I don't know if it is possible. Right now all the resources are already tied to Afghanistan, Sierra Leone, East Timor, Mozambique, Kosovo and a dozen other places.

There are about 6,000 UN peace keepers in Congo, but that's too little to make any difference.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Cloney @ 13 May 2003,12:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ 13 May 2003,07:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the UN has dropped more balls than me playing a basketball game.

Think the US will get involved?<span id='postcolor'>

If we do get involved we are playing "the world policeman", if we don't get involved we are "condoning genocide". Let the Euro's deal with this one, if they want to whine about it then *maybe* they can do something about it. It's like a little kid who spills his juice on the floor and cries about it forever until Daddy finally comes and cleans it up for him.<span id='postcolor'>

What you seem to fail to understand that there is a difference between beating up a criminal and beating up an old lady to get her purse.

The Iraq operation was not "world policing", it was the equivalent of beating up an old lady to take her purse. Kosovo was "world policing". Although not very successful it was at least done for a good cause.

Bush would never, ever go into Congo, unless they found oil or if there was an attack on American interests and the attackers had some connection to Congo.

Edit: Oh, yeah, forgot to say US participation is irrelevant. The averge US commitment of troops to UN missions has been in the last decade between 1-5%. It's in an all time low now with about 1% participation. Not to mention that you havn't paid your UN debt.

[Jinef 2]

More and More killing. The British are very stretched, i doubt we will be sending help anytime soon.

[Harnu 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Not to mention that you havn't paid your UN debt.<span id='postcolor'>

Now you're sounding like a union rep

[PitViper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ 13 May 2003,06:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What you seem to fail to understand that there is a difference between beating up a criminal and beating up an old lady to get her purse.<span id='postcolor'>

Saddam Hussein was an old lady with a purse?  

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Iraq operation was not "world policing"<span id='postcolor'>

Right.  It was a rescue mission.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Kosovo was "world policing". Although not very successful it was at least done for a good cause.<span id='postcolor'>

that is a babysitting job.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh, yeah, forgot to say US participation is irrelevant. The averge US commitment of troops to UN missions has been in the last decade between 1-5%. It's in an all time low now with about 1% participation.<span id='postcolor'>

The Korean War was and continues to be a UN operation.  We've had 40,000+ troops involved in that operation for more than 50 years.  Forgetting to count them?

Speaking of UN operations in Africa, has there ever been one where peacekeepers aren't being chased off by ragtag bands of rebels?

[Die Alive 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ 13 May 2003,11:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh, yeah, forgot to say US participation is irrelevant. The averge US commitment of troops to UN missions has been in the last decade between 1-5%. It's in an all time low now with about 1% participation.<span id='postcolor'>

The Korean War was and continues to be a UN operation.  We've had 40,000+ troops involved in that operation for more than 50 years.  Forgetting to count them?<span id='postcolor'>

I've read somewhere that the total number of peacekeepers in 2002 was around 50 000 worldwide. The highest number was over 75 000 in 1993, most of them in the Balkans.

-=Die Alive=-

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ 13 May 2003,17:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ 13 May 2003,06:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What you seem to fail to understand that there is a difference between beating up a criminal and beating up an old lady to get her purse.<span id='postcolor'>

Saddam Hussein was an old lady with a purse?  <span id='postcolor'>

Yes.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Iraq operation was not "world policing"<span id='postcolor'>

Right. It was a rescue mission.

<span id='postcolor'>

Right. Rescuing the Iraqi oil from Saddam. Rescue it was.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Kosovo was "world policing". Although not very successful it was at least done for a good cause.<span id='postcolor'>

that is a babysitting job.

<span id='postcolor'>

Since when is high altitude bombing considered "babysitting"?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Speaking of UN operations in Africa, has there ever been one where peacekeepers aren't being chased off by ragtag bands of rebels?

<span id='postcolor'>

Somalia. There the US soldiers were chased off by ragtag bands of rebels. The UN is still in place AFIK.

[PitViper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ 13 May 2003,11:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Somalia. There the US soldiers were chased off by ragtag bands of rebels. The UN is still in place AFIK.<span id='postcolor'>

There are UN troops in Somalia?  uhhh... Are you sure about that? The last I've read is that the place is still in anarchy and run by competing factions of warlords.

[FallenPaladin 0]

Well, there are also troops in Afghanistan and there is anarchy and the place is run by warlords except the most of Kabul.

Why should it be different in Somalia?

[PitViper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FallenPaladin @ 13 May 2003,12:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, there are also troops in Afghanistan and there is anarchy and the place is run by warlords except the most of Kabul.

Why should it be different in Somalia?  <span id='postcolor'>

WTH?

Afghanistan is nothing like the condition of Somalia.

and I haven't got an answer yet to the troops question.

back on topic:

Perhaps the Belgian military should completely deploy to Congo. It is their colonial abortion

[Cloney 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ 13 May 2003,17:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">0--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ 13 May 2003,170)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ 13 May 2003,06:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What you seem to fail to understand that there is a difference between beating up a criminal and beating up an old lady to get her purse.<span id='postcolor'>

Saddam Hussein was an old lady with a purse?  <span id='postcolor'>

Yes.<span id='postcolor'>

Whoa! Denoir pulled an FSPilot!

[FSPilot 0]

Saddam Hussein was certainly not an old lady with a purse. He killed lots and lots of innocent people.

[Harnu 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Saddam Hussein was certainly not an old lady with a purse.  He killed lots and lots of innocent people. <span id='postcolor'>

Gotta admit tho.  Saddam as an old woman with a purse is a pretty funny visual  

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote  

Speaking of UN operations in Africa, has there ever been one where peacekeepers aren't being chased off by ragtag bands of rebels?<span id='postcolor'>

Somalia. There the US soldiers were chased off by ragtag bands of rebels. The UN is still in place AFIK. <span id='postcolor'>

Maybe I read it wrong but he said when when aren't they being chased off?

[plons 0]

sadamn can sure run fast for an old lady :-)

Wasn't this a topic about Congo ? or am I wrong.....

stop with this anti-american behaviour and us european arent whiners, just smart and goodlooking

the whole world should work togheter to solve this crisis, but you must admit that bush won't give a damn about congo because it doesn't have any economic potential.

Irac was a problem that had to be solved somehow and hoessein is or was a massmurderer but maybe ( and I say maybe) they were other solutions. but please stay on topic. and that topic was congo ?

[JAP 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ 13 May 2003,21:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FallenPaladin @ 13 May 2003,12:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, there are also troops in Afghanistan and there is anarchy and the place is run by warlords except the most of Kabul.

Why should it be different in Somalia?  <span id='postcolor'>

WTH?

Afghanistan is nothing like the condition of Somalia.

and I haven't got an answer yet to the troops question.

back on topic:

Perhaps the Belgian military should completely deploy to Congo. It is their colonial abortion <span id='postcolor'>

WAS !

Yeah, we should go in, we and all our 90 F-16's that havent been upgraded for years and of which only about 30 fly and the rest are spare parts

[Harnu 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">WAS !

Yeah, we should go in, we and all our 90 F-16's that havent been upgraded for years and of which only about 30 fly and the rest are spare parts <span id='postcolor'>

Just as the American Military how to use Duct Tape. We'll get all 90 of them up again!

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ 13 May 2003,22:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Saddam Hussein was certainly not an old lady with a purse.  He killed lots and lots of innocent people.<span id='postcolor'>

Hehe. That FSPilot expression is really catching on

Of course Saddam was a bloody butcher who killed lots of his own people. He didn't however kill a lot of Americans, he was pretty much defenseless when put against the US military and he did have a lot of sweet oil.

So when I'm saying "Old lady with purse", I'm talking from American perspective, not Iraqi.

Anyway, back on topic. Congo (and many other situations in Africa) should be dealt with. Unfortunately nobody gives a damn about Africa. Not Europe, not USA. The resources that are given the UN are symbolic and not nearly enough to do any good. They aren't even capable of delivering proper humanitarian aid.  

And Europe is no better here than USA is. We cared about Kosovo since those were Europeans dying but apparently there are different rules for Africans