Faklands mod beta sea harrier release

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hellfish6 @ 26 April 2003,21:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I would like to encourage anyone with talent to add the VTOL/STOL scripts to OFPMan1's Yak-38 and Yak-141. The readme, as I understand it, permits this. You may need OFPMan1's permission, though.<span id='postcolor'>

I second the notion! Although they would then need some more animations added to them to close their top air intakes and to swivel their exhaust nozzles.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote ([Ash] @ 26 April 2003,21:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Any chance we could drop all the USMC Harrier talk, and concentrate on what the actual release is... A BRITISH Sea Harrier!  <span id='postcolor'>

Well...Oswald gave some very constructive comments (his English is not the best but he tries) and examples of how to improve the VTOL scripting, but you guys kinda blew him off.

But anyways, like others have said, this Harrier addon is indeed VERY VERY high quality work and I absolutely love it. Even if you guys refuse to allow anyone to make a USMC conversion of it, I'll still use it for missions where I'm using British troops.

Hopefully someone will perhaps fix up Vit's harrier jet perhaps (resizing it for one thing) and add the VTOL/STOL scripts to that one for a USMC version.

Anyways, hats of to Col. Klink and your team on the work that went into this addon, and I hope that you all will forward Oswald's scripting to the Colonel so that it will only get better on its final release.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[NavyEEL 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KEVBAZ @ 26 April 2003,19:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">However, rather than decline to make a USMC version simply because you don't want it to be "Americanized", why not retexture one and let us use it?Since nobody has made a large pack of high quality British ground units to use in conjunction with the Harrier, I find it to be pointless to have a British Harrier being flown by US soldiers involved in a US war against the Soviets...

<span id='postcolor'>

We made this addon for OUR MOD which is the FALKLANDS WAR MOD, which is based on a true war which took place back in 82 between Britian and Argentina, why should we waste our time creating an american version if its of no benifit to the mod?  we released it as a public beta out of kindness, just dont expect us to cater for everyone, i for one am fed up of mountians of US addons out there and would rather see british units being released.

Saying that Col Klink has a half done yank version but doesnt know when he can finish it due to the amount of work still to do on the mod.

And its still unsure if were going to release a ground attack version to public, but theres definatley gonna be oe in the mod, the GR3, you might have to wait till then...<span id='postcolor'>

No problem, I fully understand and don't expect you to disregard the theme of your MOD just to cater to our needs.  The only thing that upset me was the remark that there were "enough US addons", that "this addon doesnt need to be americanized", and things of that nature.  Naturally, everyone wants an aircraft that they are familiar with, usually from their own military force.  You guys aren't making a US MOD however, and that's understandable.  Just don't use "too many US addons" as an excuse... simply say that your mod is not involved in making those types of addons.

Okay that's all I have to say anymore in regards to requests for the USMC Harrier.  To get back on topic, thanks again, this is really awesome.  I have a question--does opening the nose cone to "check the radar" have a purpose other than just eyecandy?  Are there any scripts that either are, can, or will be connected to it?

[-Ash- 0]

8--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Miles Teg @ 26 April 2003,228)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote ([Ash] @ 26 April 2003,21:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Any chance we could drop all the USMC Harrier talk, and concentrate on what the actual release is... A BRITISH Sea Harrier!  <span id='postcolor'>

Well...Oswald gave some very constructive comments (his English is not the best but he tries) and examples of how to improve the VTOL scripting, but you guys kinda blew him off.  

But anyways, like others have said, this Harrier addon is indeed VERY VERY high quality work and I absolutely love it.  Even if you guys refuse to allow anyone to make a USMC conversion of it, I'll still use it for missions where I'm using British troops.

Hopefully someone will perhaps fix up Vit's harrier jet perhaps (resizing it for one thing) and add the VTOL/STOL scripts to that one for a USMC version.  

Anyways, hats of to Col. Klink and your team on the work that went into this addon, and I hope that you all will forward Oswald's scripting to the Colonel so that it will only get better on its final release.  

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD><span id='postcolor'>

Fair does..

I don't think we blew him off though.. We basically said that Col Klink visits these forums and will understand it a lot more since he made the addon..

Of course if he doesn't, I will pass them on to him anyway..

I'd like to thank everyone for all the kind comments made here as well.. Makes it all worthwhile in the end!

[eisa01 0]

Great addon now a pic of it

Poor hind now someone else blow up something with the ejection set

thanks to blackdog for hosting!!

[Guest DKM-jaguar]

i see people want to blow this out of proportion. just look CAREFULLY at my original post.

And those who attacked me as a person, me as a modder and me generally:

A) NONE of you even know what i do in the mod, so dont go saying "your an embarrisment if you dont even know anything about the mod]

B) none of you have ever seen my work [yet]

C) none of you know me, so who the hell are you to critisce me or my veiws [which you didnt interpret right anyway

]

D) how much guts does it take to insult someone over the internet? good, all this over a GAME. yes, thats right, a game. now: ontopic.

[Guest DKM-jaguar]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KEVBAZ @ 26 April 2003,19:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">However, rather than decline to make a USMC version simply because you don't want it to be "Americanized", why not retexture one and let us use it?Since nobody has made a large pack of high quality British ground units to use in conjunction with the Harrier, I find it to be pointless to have a British Harrier being flown by US soldiers involved in a US war against the Soviets...

<span id='postcolor'>

We made this addon for OUR MOD which is the FALKLANDS WAR MOD, which is based on a true war which took place back in 82 between Britian and Argentina, why should we waste our time creating an american version if its of no benifit to the mod?  we released it as a public beta out of kindness, just dont expect us to cater for everyone, i for one am fed up of mountians of US addons out there and would rather see british units being released.

Saying that Col Klink has a half done yank version but doesnt know when he can finish it due to the amount of work still to do on the mod.

And its still unsure if were going to release a ground attack version to public, but theres definatley gonna be oe in the mod, the GR3, you might have to wait till then...<span id='postcolor'>

THat is exactly what i was saying, but it seems people saw "US harrier" + "Dont make one" and = ANY US harrier.

I agree about mountains of US addons. And there is probably more US units than all the East side ones with all the unofficial ones and the resistance units all added.

[kevbaz 0]

Ok lets clear things up

Q:Are we going to make a US version?

A:NO

Q:Can other people modify the addon?

A:EMAIL COL KLINK LIKE IT SAYS SO IN THE README

Now please enough about american versions!

[lee_h._oswald 0]

Sorry about my english, but it´s not my language.

The changes I made are only for private testing and I only want to help people have more fun with the harrier.

For me it´s easier to fly and land this plane with those changes.

Thx for telling Col. Klink about it.

MfG Lee

[Guest DKM-jaguar]

YAY!

well anyway. GR3 was operated by the Army air corps, was it not? I thought that the interceptor missions were carried out by naval aircraft while the ground attack was concentrated on by the GR versions? am i wrong? How many GR versions were used?

Do you get bored of people asking you questions?

[Stag 0]

this aircraft is Jaw-droppingly beautiful; easiest the best looking aircraft in OFP now, bar none.

I had a quick play with it last night and found the roll rate to be as savage as most other beta OFP aircraft. as far as the unique attributes of this type of aircraft goes, I concluded that the only way to land accurately using VTOL would be the equivalent of curling; get to about 10 AGL, hit VTOL, hope you stop in the right place and cut the engine. I guess that could be done with practice, but a bit difficult to learn.

When I read LHO's fix, I tried it myself. It almost deletes the need for a VTOL script (operationally, vertical takeoff is hardly ever used, it takes too much fuel, whereas vertical landing is always used at sea). Low speed handling is great. But...

I don't know if this is a problem with the unmodified config (I didn't think to try it before); the AI find it impossible to land at the airport, managing to hit anything except the runway, usually terminally.

LHO's discovery is great for players, but may have screwed things for the AI; my bad for not confirming how the AI handled landings beforehand.

As a stopgap, if KK's original Config worked fine in respect to landing, coudn't an AI only version be made too?

[SilverBullet 0]

Can you tell me how to get to the addon config file so that i can make the changes Oswald suggested? Or if anyones hosting the changed version(probably need permission from Klink).

The addon is really well made, had a blast flying it around. Really great work and i'm glad you guys released it early (before the Falklands mod was complete). I do have some suggestions/observations...

When you turn VTOL on the next time you open the action menu the first option is eject... i ended up ejecting a couple times by accident.

X and C usauly turn (move the tail rudder) the plane/chopper left or right but they stop fuctioning once you're flying.

The script could really use a stop forward motion command and a land command in VTOL mode. Decreasing the altitute is slow and time consuming.

When decreasing or increasing your altitute in the action menu the menu closes each time you select one of the actions, but when lowering/raising your flaps it doesnt close... it would be nice if this could be included for the VTOL actions.

Hope it doesnt seem like i'm complaining, the addon is really great.

[Stag 0]

You'll need to De-PBO the file, make the adjustment, then pack it again. The config is very clearly layed out; the correct line will be easy to find.

You need PBO Tool.

Bear in mind we've not heard what Colonel Klink thinks about all this.

[SilverBullet 0]

Thanks Wardog.

Just tried it with the changes and VTOL landing is much easier now.

[-Ash- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DKM-jaguar @ 27 April 2003,00:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">YAY!

well anyway. GR3 was operated by the Army air corps, was it not? I thought that the interceptor missions were carried out by naval aircraft while the ground attack was concentrated on by the GR versions? am i wrong? How many GR versions were used?

Do you get bored of people asking you questions?  <span id='postcolor'>

The GR3 was actually operated by the RAF during the Falklands War for ground attack missions... It was armed with twin SNEB rocket pods and a handful of Mk82 bombs

HOWEVER....

The Sea Harrier (air superiority fighter - remember it WAS 1982! was used in the initial bombing runs on Port Stanley during the first stages of the war (Just after the famous Black Buck operation) We had no F4 Phantoms out there due to the logistics and the size of the carriers) was operated by the Fleet Air Arm squadron of the Royal Navy - thus the RN insignia on the SH.

For more information have a look at this fantastic site:

Britains Small Wars Harrier Page

[Placebo 29]

I think the question of a US version has now been done to death, any future comments in this thread about the issue can be deleted I think

[kevbaz 0]

Thanks Placebo that will be greatfully appreciated

[CuteQA 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @ 27 April 2003,04:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think the question of a US version has now been done to death, any future comments in this thread about the issue can be deleted I think <span id='postcolor'>

how about a Indo version

just kidding

[r71 0]

the only thing that drives me nuts is the auto gear down at like 275kph. and are the wings a bit short? What weapon loadouts are you going to give it? I have not found a older pic of one yet.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/images/harrier_gr7.jpg

http://www.nasog.net/datashe....k_2.htm

Two 30 mm ADEN cannon pods;

five hardpoints; 8,000 lb (3,630 kg)

warload/5,000 lb (2,270 kg) with vertical

take off; AMRAAM/AIM-7M Sidewinder

AAMs; Sea Eagle SSMs; WE117

nuclear bomb; bombs; rockets

[colonel_klink 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Lee_H._Oswald @ 27 April 2003,00:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sorry about my english, but it´s not my language.

The changes I made are only for private testing and I only want to help people have more fun with the harrier.

For me it´s easier to fly and land this plane with those changes.

Thx for telling Col. Klink about it.

MfG Lee <span id='postcolor'>

I have taken note of your modifications, matey and will experiment with them. Thanks for your input.

Cheers

[colonel_klink 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (R71 @ 27 April 2003,06:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the only thing that drives me nuts is the auto gear down at like 275kph.    and are the wings a bit short? What weapon loadouts are you going to give it? I have not found a older pic of one yet.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/images/harrier_gr7.jpg

http://www.nasog.net/datashe....k_2.htm

Two 30 mm ADEN cannon pods;

five hardpoints; 8,000 lb (3,630 kg)

warload/5,000 lb (2,270 kg) with vertical

take off; AMRAAM/AIM-7M Sidewinder

AAMs; Sea Eagle SSMs; WE117

nuclear bomb; bombs; rockets<span id='postcolor'>

Auto gear down occurs under 80 meters or 200km/h. I am currently working on this.

The GR7 from your link is a later version of the RAF GR3 harrier and yes it does have a larger wingspan.

The information posted in the readme is accurate for the Sea Harrier at the time of its use in the Falklands war in 1982. Load outs varied, but I have tried to be as accurate as possible.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You'll need to De-PBO the file, make the adjustment, then pack it again. The config is very clearly layed out; the correct line will be easy to find.

You need PBO Tool.

Bear in mind we've not heard what Colonel Klink thinks about all this.

<span id='postcolor'>

No addon maker has any control over what others do with the cpp files etc in the addon, except that the model and textures do belong to the author.

Creating a new cpp file and repacking the addon for your own use is permissable, however most addon makers do get concerned when addons are altered and then reposted either as their own or as an altered version.

Remember this addon is beta and was released to get feedback. The majority has been very positive and I appreciate it. I am always open to suggestions for improvement, but it does get tiresome when the same complaints are voiced time and time again with people not reading either the readme or the previous posts.

I would rather spend my time creating addons, rather than have to keep explaining why such and such is not right etc etc. As I have always maintained constructive criticism is welcome, negative.. not worthy of a response.

Anyway to all those who have downloaded and appreciated the efforts so far, thank you.

[lee_h._oswald 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Colonel_Klink @ 27 April 2003,08:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have taken note of your modifications, matey and will experiment with them. Thanks for your input.

Cheers<span id='postcolor'>

That´s what I wanted to hear.

Thanks for your attention and a BIG THANK YOU for your great work on the harrier!

MfG Lee

[Guest DKM-jaguar]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote ([Ash] @ 27 April 2003,01:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DKM-jaguar @ 27 April 2003,00:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">YAY!

well anyway. GR3 was operated by the Army air corps, was it not? I thought that the interceptor missions were carried out by naval aircraft while the ground attack was concentrated on by the GR versions? am i wrong? How many GR versions were used?

Do you get bored of people asking you questions?  <span id='postcolor'>

The GR3 was actually operated by the RAF during the Falklands War for ground attack missions... It was armed with twin SNEB rocket pods and a handful of Mk82 bombs

HOWEVER....

The Sea Harrier (air superiority fighter - remember it WAS 1982! was used in the initial bombing runs on Port Stanley during the first stages of the war (Just after the famous Black Buck operation) We had no F4 Phantoms out there due to the logistics and the size of the carriers) was operated by the Fleet Air Arm squadron of the Royal Navy - thus the RN insignia on the SH.

For more information have a look at this fantastic site:

Britains Small Wars Harrier Page<span id='postcolor'>

I wondered wether they had put any F4's on that place, i could not remember. If they had, what would a mirage vs Fantom be like in outcome? i think that the Harrier was probably more suited to ground attack alhough its slower speed helped it to maintain long attacks in one pass, it also made it more vulnerable to small arms and SAMs. Would it have been diferent to have F4s around?

Had they started getting rid of the proper carreirs by then? its a shame, seeming as the UK had a good naval fleet.  

But i suppose the lack of boats kept the viallge people from finding [and dancing on them]    [joke!]

And i dont know if this was answered in the above explanation by Col klink, but can you do anything about the slow down speed at corners? i dont know any real figures but i am sure that the harrier will not loose so much power in a simple bank.

[colonel_klink 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And i dont know if this was answered in the above explanation by Col klink, but can you do anything about the slow down speed at corners? i dont know any real figures but i am sure that the harrier will not loose so much power in a simple bank. <span id='postcolor'>

Hmm I have noticed this on a number of OFP planes. The game engine is not very kind to aircraft in regards to acceleration or maintaining airspeed. Helos dont seem to suffer so much. Any ideas anyone?

[Guest DKM-jaguar]

Our resident scripting genious, Rastavovich, i think had a work-around for that on the OV-10 broncies. If you want, i will talk to him about any possible way to do this on fast jets. I remember something about changing the values on the turning speeds, maximum speeds and the way they handle for each diferent version. i cant remember exact details but it may be that the values for handling characteristics have a bearing on this. let me see...  

oh, and i applolgise to the people who wanted to get on with this topic as it was intended, for the people who went and blew what i was saying out of proportion. DKM is actually looking into the AV-8B so haha haha ha. I might persaud them to do an RAF GR7 as well. Good idea!!