Ai thread

[Airbourne Alchaholic 0]

With OFP2 I heard it will be a TFPS/RPG/RTS (RTS with squad management, TFPS - Tactical FPS). So...

What about different soldiers/outposts/bases/sectors etc have different opinions of you, depending on what you do. This could lead to the AI giving you more help, such as offering to hitch a ride to a point on the Island, or giving you better information on goings on. Like Morrowind only more "in depth."

Also, will the AI be similar to the one currently being applied to STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl? (As in: do they eat when they're hungry, respond to different situations. If he's shot at or is outnumbered will he call for backup from a local patrol or base? And will that call be forwarded to a helicopter/recon team that is on patrol in that area to take a look, evaluate the battlefield and call the necasary amount of units to aid the soldier? Also, some proper tactics used by the squad/unit, will they send soldiers around the enemy whilst distracting them with suppression fire? I'm sure you get the idea. It may sound like a bit much, but let's be reasonable, this IS what would happen in real life, they wouldn't just listen to an outnumbered squad get captured/killed, they would try to aid them, unless for some reason they cannot.)

[funnyguy1 0]

Yeah, would be great if you could ask npc`s for a ride (no matter what kind of vehicle or aircraft it is).

When they like you they stop, when not, they say they`re busy or had been given orders and so on...

I think bf vietnam has system like this, you just point your crosshair on the vehicle and press a button, then your character yell something, and npc (even if he`s in the air) pickes you up. (somebody suggested already that the menu should be displayed after pointing your cursor on the particular thing such as vehicle door)

I`ve just finished both campaigns from the original ofp and I`m again in the middle of bas campaign on tonal...

Gues what annoys the most...AI in cqb...as always...

edit:

Besides the movement system, there`s one thing I want to see in cqb...

mg gunners, behaves just like normal soldiers. The only thing they doo is that they try to attack the enemy at larger distances.

They should automaticaly select the best positions for covering\suppresing fire.

I hate it when on tonal`s big cities, I have to show my teammates directly where they should be.

I know it`s been suggested, but I forgot It`s such a big bug...You`ll realise it when you again play some cqb missions again.

edit2:

I think you should be able have special keys to command your teams (after the 9 key selection), so you`ll just need to press the "green/alpha" or whatever key and those guys are selected.

In some missions there`s not enough time to prepare the teams, then select their behaviour, order the possitions (it`s a torture in cqb), and set the `watch direction`.

I prefer rather a couple of small teams, consisting from 4 to 6 men under my command, than one big 12 men team.

[Checkmaty 0]

-The cover system used in "Soldiers:Heroes of WW2" was great. It really amazed me how the AI would dynamicly adapt to the changing environment and take cover behind physics objects and basicly anything else that it could. Its cool to see soldiers taking cover behind a tank flipped on its side(Still shooting) or even the wheels from a blown up truck. The soldiers even had different animations for the different types of cover. They will peek around corners and duck down behind objects(very low if the object is small), popping out a little from cover to fire a few shots then hide/duck down again if enemy fired at them(Supressing fire works and enemy will also use it, firing blindly at the general location they think the enemy is at). It would be great to see this cover system used by the AI in OFP2.Would also work very well for house to house fighting. I haven't seen anything else close to it yet. But even if this great cover system is implemented(or another), it would be useless if the AI didn't know how to use it. Enemies and allies should always be fireing from behind some sort of cover, seek the closest cover if threatened(Or if switched to danger mode), move between cover locations relative to threat(OFP does this currently), be able to tell the difference between soft and hard cover, and basicly use cover intelligently. This is missing in OFP and allows for players to massive amounts of enemy very easily.

-AI targeting and shooting(and general accuracy of the weapons) could use some improvments. Enemies should shoot in the general direction of the enemy if none can be seen(supressing fire) instead of the current "super accurate shoot only if you can see one shot kills" that OFP uses. Accuracy(weapon accuracy) should also be lowered a lot for longer firefights.

-The group AI in OFP is done quite well but could use some improvement. The AI in groups should always try to stick and work together instead of going of on thier own in many general directions trying to kill the enemy. Communication and teamwork between multiple groups is also missing in OFP. If the AI could perform maneuvers with other groups(one group supresses while another flanks) this would add a lot to the game and force the player to play more carefully/strategeticly.

-AI tactics would add a lot to the challenge. Currently in OFP the only real tactic that the AI does is flanking. Adding many different tactics like hit and run, ambushing, advancing under smoke cover, calling for artillery/air support, and requesting reinforcements would be great.

-AI soldiers under the command of the player should atleast have the basic combat and survival skills to keep themselvs alive and engange the enemy without any direct commands from the player. This will save a lot of headache and micromanagement so he/she can focus on the action instead of trying to give commands to many units while in the heat of battle.

-A moral system for the AI instead of the "retreat only if squad has lost this many soldiers, or if squad is at this strength" would be great. Being a soldier would really suck(more) if the casualty rate was 90-100%. Moral should change according to what is happening on the battlefield.

-The driving AI currently in OFP does a good job of looking for roads automaticly but are unable to drive straight, always crashing and getting stuck on objects. Could use some major improvments.

-Can't say much for the flying AI, I don't play much with air units. Could use some improvments with targeting and engaging ground forces, especially infantry.

-Having AI that could automaticly rearm themselves would be a great feature and save a lot of micromanagement for the player. Ofcourse, they should not run out into the open while under fire just to get some ammo from a dead body.

-Idle/safe actions/animations for the AI would add a lot to the game world. The AI should be doing something besides standing still in one place while in idle/safe mode.

-The ability to allow the user to modifiy the AI is very important. Suprising what the community can do.

Hoping that the new Operation Flashpoint will offer a AI that will challenge the player and be usefull in multiplayer games.

[fatcroc5 0]

it would be cool if the AI automatically seek cover during arty or air strikes. something like natural ditches, rocks, craters etc...

[dayglow 2]

I disagree that weapon accuracy should be lowered. Guns are accurate, what happens is that people don't take the time to properly line up the shot because of the mental and physical stress of combat. That should be modelled for the AI.

What I don't want is a BIA style of weapon handling where even a properly lined up shot will not hit to force longer firefights. If I have good cover and the element of suprise, I should be able to take the time to line up a shot and hit what I'm shooting.

[Guest Ti0n3r]

Oh I remember BIA. The game was horrible. Mostly cause of one little fault, the weapon accuracy. Oh sorry, I mean the lack of it.

[Johan_D 0]

Oh I remember BIA. The game was horrible. Mostly cause of one little fault, the weapon accuracy. Oh sorry, I mean the lack of it.

and the tunnel vision.. a much hyped game, what was no better than MOHAA.

[Johan_D 0]

I disagree that weapon accuracy should be lowered. Guns are accurate, what happens is that people don't take the time to properly line up the shot because of the mental and physical stress of combat. That should be modelled for the AI.

What I don't want is a BIA style of weapon handling where even a properly lined up shot will not hit to force longer firefights. If I have good cover and the element of suprise, I should be able to take the time to line up a shot and hit what I'm shooting.

It all would be easily solved if BIS programmed a way into the AI, that every soldier just wants to stay ALIVE.

Nothing more. If an AI wants to live as long as possible, it should seek cover, it gets scared under fire and get inaccurate.

That should the skill slider do. Not eye distance, but skill in the way of being afraid, or less afraid.

Johan

[funnyguy1 0]

Some suggestions here have been already realised in ofp1 thx to General Barron`s Handsignals Command System:

thread

Although all of ofp1 limitations, It`s still a great improovement adn substitute of what will bring the game2 I hope.

another thought concerning the AI`s self-sufficience:

Ai guys should have the ability to calculate the danger when in `hold fire` mode, and automatically shoot back when under fire.

another thing, useful during some ambushes.

The first (edit: or loud) shoot of the commander (edit: I forgot about the SD) or the enemy, automatically switches off the `silent`\`hold fire` mode

[Mad Computer Doggy 0]

I would like the following:

-squads bigger than 12 units (obvious)

-more hierarchical levels, like even the squad leaders awaits orders from superiors. e.g. units, squads and platoons...commander

-more communication between different squads

-units should notice both dead enemy and friend units and act upon.

-units/player should be able to simulate death (prone+stand still...)

-ai units shouldn't be able to view through foliage, smoke and other objects, that's just dammit unrealistic. BTW, aren't there yet some bushes in OFP in which the ai can't see you?

But they should notice you if they get closer, say <50 feet

-ai should act differently on different weapon firing. For example, if you're a west guy playing with a AK and some east guys hear you, the should think "might be some idiot playing with it's gun", but being alerted if they hear a M16

-vehicles should be fully accessible. e.g. walking in some...

[gandalf the white 0]

-ai should act fiddefently and different weapon firing. For exampl, if you're a west guy playing with a AK and some east guys hear you, the should think "might be some idiot playing with it's gun", but being alerted if they hear a M16

ofcourse, the moment your buddy opens fire the first thing you think is that he isn't serious .

For the rest... I think it will be taken care of.. it has been suggested so many times... it's just the standard wish list.

[jakerod 254]

Quote[/b] ]Some suggestions here have been already realised in ofp1 thx to General Barron`s Handsignals Command System:

thread

Although all of ofp1 limitations, It`s still a great improovement adn substitute of what will bring the game2 I hope.

another thought concerning the AI`s self-sufficience:

Ai guys should have the ability to calculate the danger when in `hold fire` mode, and automatically shoot back when under fire.

another thing, useful during some ambushes.

The first (edit: or loud) shoot of the commander (edit: I forgot about the SD) or the enemy, automatically switches off the `silent`\`hold fire` mode

Sometimes you want them to holdfire though so that they keep running in oppose to getting stuck out in the open.

Ex. You start getting shot at while running across a field, you want your men to keep moving maybe 2 or 3 of them to get down and return fire but you want the majority to keep running til your behind something.

[Mad Computer Doggy 0]

For the rest... I think it will be taken care of.. it has been suggested so many times...  it's just the standard wish list.

Yep, but here is more. I guess it has been posted a thousand times here in this forum, but I just want to conclude it here.

Some more suggestions:

-players should be able to look up steaper than 45°, though it's currently impossible shooting an aircraft which flies (almost) directly over you. Well, that might be dangerous firing LAWs on a heli flying directly over you, but it's also just going on my nerves.

-binoculars should be easier to use, I mean you should at least be able to creep while looking through it.

-Yeahh, changing one's entire wearing would be cool for espionage/infiltrating missions (I like those Hitman games)

-Definately the entire game physics should be improved, and I spare you the details, cause I know everyone here knows that probably. And GeoMod would be cool(I am just remembering some red faction action...), but I doubt it would work acceptable on terrain 100km^2 big

[ofpchaos 0]

The AI will see you in the night only when you are under 20-30 meters (in the dark) an can identify you under 10-2 meters. When you stay under streetlamp you are good lighted - so the enemy will identify you at longer distance.

AI must hear. When you are to loud the enemy patrol will change his combatmode earlier.

[CherokeeJack 0]

This has been mentioned before, but I think it's really important for the AI to be able to fight and fight well in close situations, like in an urban environment. If Game 2 ends up being a portrayal of near-future combat like I think it is, it's going to need a really good CQB AI to make urban combat fun. When AI soldiers enter a city, their entire ways of thinking should change. I think this would mean tightening up the formations and adapting to changing spaces around them (i.e. going off the street into an alley, the individual AI should be able to tighten up the formation and move along with the player cohesively). Maybe highly-trained AI soldiers could give 360 degree security, and use advanced urban warfare tactics like oh, I dunno, leaning around corners ?

[Jinef 2]

Mad Computer Doggy:

Quote[/b] ] - squads bigger than 12 units (obvious)

I don't know of any country which has sections bigger than 12. Maybe 14? 16? Please give examples of such a military.

Quote[/b] ] -more hierarchical levels, like even the squad leaders awaits orders from superiors. e.g. units, squads and platoons...commander

I think we would all like to see more structure. Sct, Pl, Coy, Bn.

Quote[/b] ] -more communication between different squads

I think we need a proper radio system for this, it's not as bad as IL-2 however the callsigns are still pretty all over the place. Plus the missions have no section in the briefing that lists friendly units and their callsigns.

Quote[/b] ]-units/player should be able to simulate death (prone+stand still...)

Would be quite good, especially for enemy units. I did that feature in a mission once, however by default would be more useful for most people.

Quote[/b] ] - ai units shouldn't be able to view through foliage, smoke and other objects, that's just dammit unrealistic.

They don't really see you, they hear you shoot. Then they fire at the sound, quite accurately. I think that is how it works.

Quote[/b] ]-ai should act differently on different weapon firing. For example, if you're a west guy playing with a AK and some east guys hear you, the should think "might be some idiot playing with it's gun", but being alerted if they hear a M16

They might also think, that's a guy shooting at enemy soldiers. Let's report this. Also I would think that any west guys nearby would be quite entitled to shoot at the source of fire. Using enemy weapons is NOT clever on a real battlefield as you are likely to become a target for both sides.

Quote[/b] ] -vehicles should be fully accessible. e.g. walking in some...

For small vehicle like jeeps, being able to crawl over seats and stuff would just be a waste of time. It's the bigger vehicles that would need movement. In cargo helicopters infantry aren't allowed to wander around playing with things, they are seated. The loadmasters however are constantly moving around.

However being able to lean out, shift to a different position on the other side and have some freedoms from your seated position/s in vehicles would be very useful.

E.G. I was playing a command engine mission controlling a coy of infantry. I had an attached UH60. I used this as an aerial command post. However I found at some points I needed to lean out to see what I wanted and move to the other side of the helicopter.

Interacting with the door gunner by tapping him on the shoulder and pointing with the watch command would be very useful also, same for any AI manned guns not in your group.

Quote[/b] ]-players should be able to look up steaper than 45°, though it's currently impossible shooting an aircraft which flies (almost) directly over you. Well, that might be dangerous firing LAWs on a heli flying directly over you, but it's also just going on my nerves.

Yes I think 190 degrees of movement should be used (I changed that in my personal mod) instead of 125. In real life you can all the way down and all the way up, and an extra 10 degrees. Very useful in urban situations.

However shooting LAWs at helicopters.... try using WGL's simulation of a LAW. It's hard to hit a truck at 200 metres let alone a helicopter. LAWs in BIS OFP are simply crap, arcade style.

Quote[/b] ]-binoculars should be easier to use, I mean you should at least be able to creep while looking through it.

OFFS, have you ever used a pair of binoculars, ever?

Quote[/b] ]-Yeahh, changing one's entire wearing would be cool for espionage/infiltrating missions (I like those Hitman games)

The slime isn't really meant to be modelled in OFP imo. However if you want to have a slime campaign i'm sure someone can make something.

[ofpchaos 0]

When the soldier is standing under the streetlamp there is no difference when the lamp is on or off. His enemy can see him nevertheless.

This muss be fixed. The enemy can see too good when you are standing in the light or in the shadow.

[NeMeSiS 11]

When the soldier is standing under the streetlamp there is no difference when the lamp is on or off. His enemy can see him nevertheless.

This muss be fixed. The enemy can see too good when you are standing in the light or in the shadow.

This is changable in the config AFAIK, just try that ninja addon

[guyguy1 0]

I think that the AI should run for cover (look for houses, walls, rock formations, etc.) when they start taking fire. This would definitely add to the realism and in my opinion is perfectly feasible and possible.

[Shinbusan 0]

Well, mainly I would like to see fully programmable AI. So if BIS will not do something, it can be done. Or if BIS do something not in my way, I will can still make it in my way

[Ryujin 0]

I'd like to see better AI for guards and security units. If a Guard sees something odd, he should call for backup, secure the area and wait for the cavlary to arrive. Squads set guard mode should also do periodic radio checks. Plus, it would be nice to see some "relaxed" animations, for example a group of 5-8 soldiers set to be guards, depending on their alert status, should act accordingly. If they are set to safe + guard then 2-3 guys should sit down or do stuff like mess with their rifle. The others will patrol around the area. But if they are on high alert they will stay low and set up a perimeter. It would be nice if you could set the area they guard, so they could adapt to cover a base or a house.

PS it be cool if troops could dig fox holes!

[funnyguy1 0]

When ai is under fire, it should immediately seek cover behind the nearest wall or object (in the range of x meters).

If ai `knows` your position it should hide behind something in the opposite direction to you, when it doesn`t it should simply hit the dirt just as it`s right now. The thought came when ai after spotting me just lied down in the middle of the street in cqb area...

What with teams then? I think it should be done randomely, some of guys go prone some of them run to the nearest object.

Just writting quickly some ideas from the past few days, it`s really late and i`m exhausted heavily, so forgive any typos, I`ll come back and make it more understandable later:P

[Ryujin 0]

Another thought... It would be cool if you could order your troops to camp for the night, due to the size and free-form nature of the game. I'd also like to see a sort random, freeplay mode. Kinda like the campain, But, you pick your side and set the organization of each side (Armored, Motor-rifle, infantry, etc.) at the Company (or however many troops the game can support) level. Then set where each side starts (east, west, south, north) along with other factors like how many civies(low, med, high) and the presance of resistance fighters. Then the game should spawn this on the selceted map and with the AI generals it should play out by its self. Whoa! Anyhow, it would be nice if it work with user-made stuff.

[orange juice 0]

stuff like this would be very cool yet very hard to realize i think. i guess the ai would always attack in a similar way, even if there are tactic varieties coded in, after some time you will get used to it just as you are now to ai in ofp, it will just take longer. they will render predictable and battles will finally be fought the same way, unless there are some wildcards coded in.

imo it would be a good idea for BIS to do some research on chess computers and split ai into two main parts:

- individual/squad behaviour, basically the thang we know from OFP, just smarter (flanking, scouting, guarding n stuff) PLUS extra detail on HUMAN BEHAVIOUR simulation. they have to be - better: act like being- scared, bored, exhausted, etc.... Now those individuals/squads won´t just stand around but having routines in their heads spinnig which tell them ... not to stand around. programmed common sense LOL. well, now they have to bei controlled/ordered by a higher realm,

- the tactical/strategic, the unpredictable chess computer thing, which would basically be intelligence/command in RL, which analyses battlefield progress in realtime and uses troops just like chess figures i. e. on a squad basis (at all costs defend the "king"/hq, wisely use air support because it´s limited, ...). it has to think ahead several "turns" (as much turns as possible), taking the complete environment (weather conditions, day-/nighttime, morale of own/enemy troops, resources like ammo, ...) into consideration, and of course at the same time handle the enemy side like its chess opponent, calculating whose possibilities.

like in chess, you maye would sit there thinking "huh, why he done that stupid?", ten minutes later the battle is over and you lose!

now, probability BIS reads this and goes like "my, why haven´t we thought of that!" is like zero, isn´t it?

anyway, i know as much about programming as about rocket science, but i think if they did it that way, it would be cool.

[gandalf the white 0]

I thought of something weird.

The only thing the AI knows is that he must compare.

I know AI cannot think creatively, but can you could spawn random commands for the AI, like "action" at "object ID" or move to "grid".

He does this with two groups, one gets put on "combat" mode, and one on "ease" mode.

After both have completed their goal he will compare AI reports.

"combat AI" moved faster, however, "ease" AI spotted a civillian car, some deer, etc.

Another example:

The controlling AI lets one guy "move" to "random radius" from time to time, for comparison, he uses somebody that doesn't move.

Result: the guy that doesn't move sees more in a specific angle, but is more prone to sniper fire.

I don't know if this is possible, the AI doesn't really have to think creatively, just compare, compare, and compare more... but can it?