The Dogs of War

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 03 2003,22:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">At this point it's bloody difficult to say WTF the Iraqis are up to. Is this a sign that their defences are breaking down? Or are they withdrawing into urban areas? There have been some strange developments the last 48 hours.<span id='postcolor'>

No need to over-complicate things.  The surviving Iraqi troops that still want (or have) to fight have probably pulled back.  It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that this will be settled in Baghdad.

Not an earth-shattering analysis, but that's how I see it.

Semper Fi

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ April 04 2003,00:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 03 2003,22:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">At this point it's bloody difficult to say WTF the Iraqis are up to. Is this a sign that their defences are breaking down? Or are they withdrawing into urban areas? There have been some strange developments the last 48 hours.<span id='postcolor'>

No need to over-complicate things.  The surviving Iraqi troops that still want (or have) to fight have probably pulled back.  It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that this will be settled in Baghdad.<span id='postcolor'>

The thing is that there has been no evidence of any significant damage done to the two divisions. Even CENTCOM is backing down now from those claims. You have 30,000 men and 300+ tanks missing. There are reports of attacks on coalition supply lines south east of the front, which could indicate that the Iraqis double backed to cut off the supplies.

Again, the odd thing is that there has been almos to contact with RG units. Intelligence reports indicate that the bombing of their positions did insignificant damage since they were spread out and dug in. There are however no reports of them getting back into Baghdad. So you have two divisions with at least one armored brigade on the loose, but nobody knows where they are. Is that not a bit strange to you?

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 04 2003,00:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">...Is that not a bit strange to you?<span id='postcolor'>

Not really.  From the other thread 5 days ago:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Mar. 30 2003,10:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Some War Predictions:

Saddam Hussein is dispersing/hiding his forces and armament throughout Iraq like the Taliban did in SE Afghanistan, but on a much larger scale.

The Allies will be allowed to enter Baghdad relatively unopposed.  

Saddam Hussein and his chiefs will go into hiding like Mullah Omar did in Afghanistan.

...<span id='postcolor'>

I just hope that infiltrators don't turn it into another Soviet Afghanistan or WWII Stalingrad.

[Jacko 0]

I heard from a belgium reporter that there are 100.000 men in baghdad.

Not only soldiers but armed civillians too, even iraqi's that lived in an other country are coming back too fight for iraq (not saddam).

Even Heard they are dropping clusterbombs now, seems they don't care about civilian casualties anymore

Don't know if this report is really true though

"Hope this war ends soon"

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 04 2003,00:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Again, the odd thing is that there has been almos to contact with RG units. Intelligence reports indicate that the bombing of  their positions did insignificant damage since they were spread out and dug in. There are however no reports of them getting back into Baghdad. So you have two divisions with at least one armored brigade on the loose, but nobody knows where they are. Is that not a bit strange to you?<span id='postcolor'>

Obviously we're getting conflicting reports.  From what I've heard the Air Force worked the RG over pretty well.  In addition, I haven't seen anything about heavy attacks on the supply lines.  If there were 300 tanks running around in some kind of organized manner I'm confident that we'd know about it.

I've seen the brass claiming that they were able to "get inside the decision" and cut the RG off before they could return to Baghdad, but I'm skeptical.  I hope I'm wrong and that the AF knocked them out, but I suspect that most of these missing tanks will turn up in the city.

Semper Fi

[Bernadotte 0]

Has there been any indication of Iraq using decoys like the inflatable tanks deployed by the Yugoslav army in Kosovo?

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ April 04 2003,00:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Obviously we're getting conflicting reports.  From what I've heard the Air Force worked the RG over pretty well.  In addition, I haven't seen anything about heavy attacks on the supply lines.  If there were 300 tanks running around in some kind of organized manner I'm confident that we'd know about it.

I've seen the brass claiming that they were able to "get inside the decision" and cut the RG off before they could return to Baghdad, but I'm skeptical.  I hope I'm wrong and that the AF knocked them out, but I suspect that most of these missing tanks will turn up in the city.<span id='postcolor'>

Republican Guard down, but is it out? - AP Report on the subject.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">SOUTHWEST OF BAGHDAD (AFP) - US commanders say they inflicted major damage on the Iraqi Republican Guard south of Baghdad, but nobody seems to know the whereabouts or intentions of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s elite troops.

US troops reported Thursday pushing to within 15 kilometers (nine miles) south of downtown Baghdad a day after claiming the virtual destruction of at least two crack divisions of the Republican Guard.

But commanders spoke of no major tank battles; nor was there any word on significant Iraqi surrenders or losses other than 500 reported dead at a bridge 30 kilometers (20 miles) southwest of Baghdad.

If the US Central Command (Centcom) has rolled out videos of some of their air strikes every day since the war began two weeks ago, they have produced none of any major hits on the Republican Guard.

So what happened to the tens of thousands of Republican Guard, the hardiest and most loyal of Saddam's fighters equipped with Baghdad's most advanced equipment such as T-72 tanks?

US officials say they just don't know.

"Time will have to tell as to exactly the level of damage that has been inflicted," said Brigadier General Vincent Brooks, deputy head of operations for the US Central Command.

Guard units have taken hits and some have pulled out of their positions and tried to maneuver elsewhere, Brooks told reporters at Centcom's forward command post in Qatar.

But he added: "We know there are a number of forces on the battlefield that have not been engaged in battle. We don't want to be overconfident with what we're seeing. There will still, we believe, be fighting ahead."

Analysts said the quick American advance could mean the Iraqis were drawing them in to the capital for the house-to-house fighting US officials have been determined to avoid.

The New York Times, citing a senior US officer in Washington, said "the enemy is taking what forces he can muster and is ordering them back into the city ... for a last stand."

Other senior brass were sceptical. They said small pockets of troops could make their way back into Baghdad but it would be difficult to infiltrate an entire division of the Republican Guard.

US officials were brimming with confidence Wednesday after reporting significant progress by US army troops toward Baghdad from the southwest and by US marines from the southeast.

They said the Guard's armored Medina division around the city of Karbala and the Baghdad division around Kut to the east were "no longer credible forces" but were reinforced with regular Iraqi army troops.

The Americans positioned themselves at a key intersection and claimed control of all access to the southern approaches of Baghdad, possibly settling in for a siege. They were clearly moving cautiously.

"As to what is inside of Baghdad -- we'll see," Brooks said. "Has the regime extended all of its capability in other areas? Did they use too much of what they had against us? One would have to speculate on that."

The wild card was whether Saddam's forces could be setting a trap for the Americans that they would close with chemical weapons inside a "red line" drawn at some point inside the capital.

Major General Stanley McChrystal, vice director of operations of the Joint Staff, said that as US forces move closer to Baghdad and Saddam's home base of Tikrit to the north, "the likelihood of them using those weapons goes up."

"And so, the posture of our force is prepared for that," he said

<span id='postcolor'>

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ April 04 2003,00:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Has there been any indication of Iraq using decoys like the inflatable tanks deployed by the Yugoslav army in Kosovo?<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, unfortunately for the Iraqi army they didn't stand a chance against our foam rubber A-10 Warthogs.  

Semper Fi

[Blaegis 0]

Don't knock off rubber tank full-scale models. It's an excellent way to screw up the other side's intel. Nowdays they even come with the heating elements in the right places to mimick the target heat signature. So until you have somebody on the ground to confirm it, you don't know if your bomb killed a real tank or a blow-up doll. And seeing that there were some Russian ex-generals doing a consulting gig in Iraq before the war, I'm willling to bet Iraqis are using decoys. Russians are acknowledged experts in military camouflage and deception.

Oh, and speaking of elite Republican Guard

[Major Gripe 0]

Going back to the possible [sic] dropping of cluster bombs, is this in contravention of international treaties or just an unwritten rule that they only be used in extremis?

[bn880 5]

POW Father Denies Daughter Shot, Stabbed

What the heck is going on in this war? That is THE question.

[mr. Duck 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ April 04 2003,02:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">POW Father Denies Daughter Shot, Stabbed

What the heck is going on in this war?     That is THE question.<span id='postcolor'>

Read the comments below, man... This just nuts. Right now, I don't know who to believe, all these conflicting reports...

[PFC Mongoose 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Powell continued, "I think it's sad that we've degenerated into some sort of elite relativism where you only have to be better than the next guy to be considered elite even if that next guy sucks. Any person that goes through two weeks of training shouldn't be called elite."

<span id='postcolor'>

Picturing Colin Powell saying that line almost made me jettison hot coffee from my nose.

XD

[Schoeler 0]

leave it to Powell to speak his mind! LOL

[Schoeler 0]

Oh, BTW:

Capture of Saddam International Airport = Severe reduction in the Iraqi ability to hit Coalition supply lines.

We can ship it via air freight straight to Baghdad now. Expect C-17's and C-5's to start arriving as soon as an air umbrella can be established. Plenty of big fuel storage tanks as well.

[Akira 0]

Iraqi Informer Was Angered At POW Treatment

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ April 04 2003,06:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Iraqi Informer Was Angered At POW Treatment<span id='postcolor'>

Holy Jeebus.  That guy must clang when he walks.

Semper Fi

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ April 04 2003,06:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ April 04 2003,06:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Iraqi Informer Was Angered At POW Treatment<span id='postcolor'>

Holy Jeebus.  That guy must clang when he walks.

Semper Fi<span id='postcolor'>

No joke lol. The world would be a better place with a few more guys like that.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ April 04 2003,07:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The world would be a better place with a few more guys like that.<span id='postcolor'>

Stay tuned.

Bottom line of article:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Believe me, not only I, all the people of Iraq, not the people in the government, like Americans," Mohammed said. "They want to help the Americans, but they are all afraid."<span id='postcolor'>

[Othin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ April 03 2003,21:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Holy Jeebus.  That guy must clang when he walks.

Semper Fi<span id='postcolor'>

For real.  The world is better off for having people like him.  Also:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mohammed @ April 03 2003,01:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"I love America. I like America. Why, I don't know,"<span id='postcolor'>

Who would have thought a Iraqi could sum up my feelings.  Well, me too Mohamed, me too.

And to save others the time.

THIS IS OBVIOUSLY LIES AND PROPAGANDA.  HOW CAN YOU STAND THIS @#)@$

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">THIS IS OBVIOUSLY LIES AND PROPAGANDA. HOW CAN YOU STAND THIS @#)@$

<span id='postcolor'>

No joke! I'm sick of all these lies and propaganda from the blatant government mouthpiece that is the... umm... Kansas City Star? It is absolutely unimaginable that someone could like this degenerate, corrupt, capitalist psuedo-dictatorship we have going here.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Stay tuned.

Bottom line of article:

Quote

"Believe me, not only I, all the people of Iraq, not the people in the government, like Americans," Mohammed said. "They want to help the Americans, but they are all afraid."

<span id='postcolor'>

No, not because he's pro-American, but simply because of the way he conducted himself. Also, he obviously has a great deal of compassion and empathy for fellow human beings, which sometimes seem like all too rare traits. The fact that he happens to be on our side is strictly bonus

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ April 04 2003,06:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No joke lol. The world would be a better place with a few more guys like that.<span id='postcolor'>

Just so long that you remember that traitors are liable to betray again...

[Assault (CAN) 1]

This isn't supposed to be in this thread, but I'm just adding to the current conversation.

In my opinion, when the war is over, it won't really matter if Saddam was hiding chemical/bio/WMD afterall. The real judgement on wether the war was just or not will ultimately fall to the Iraqi people. If they are happy, then we'll all be happy. I just saw the eleven o'clock news, and they were showing videos with coaliton troops advancing towards Baghdad, with all kinds of people lining the road waving and smiling at the Americans as they drove by.

I just hope that Iraq will stay stable after the war, looks like a job for the U.N.    Hey, maybe I can grab a tour over there if Canada decides to go. I really should learn some Arabic.

Tyler

[edit] P.S. Hey Avon, what happened to your postcount?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Posts: 3151<span id='postcolor'>

You posting in the negative now?

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ April 04 2003,07:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ April 04 2003,06:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No joke lol. The world would be a better place with a few more guys like that.<span id='postcolor'>

Just so long that you remember that traitors are liable to betray again...<span id='postcolor'>

lol, I wasn't planning on giving him the keys to my house or anything. And besides, he may have recognized the cruelty of Saddam's regime and decided that his loyalty to Iraq dictated that he help those who would destroy Saddam. If you look at it like that, he isn't really a traitor.

[Oligo 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ April 04 2003,07:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And besides, he may have recognized the cruelty of Saddam's regime and decided that his loyalty to Iraq dictated that he help those who would destroy Saddam. If you look at it like that, he isn't really a traitor.<span id='postcolor'>

By definition, he is still a traitor. Consider that U.S. taleban, Walker was he? He decided for himself that U.S. is evil and acted accordingly. Now you call him a traitor, which he was if you ask me. Likewise this Iraqi decided that his current government is evil and acted accordingly. This makes him a traitor.

Personally I hate persons who betray and rat on people and I would never trust them.