Update 23/08/2022 Thermal

[jgaz-uk 132]

The apparent update seems to have ruined the Thermal imaging with loss of contrast depending on heat. there is now glowing tufts of grass, bushes & trees? update looks far from realistic . the origination thermals for the ArmA series was taken from, VBS1 as sold to the US UK & Aussie military for training, & was ahead of its time in a PC computer game.

 

Arma 2 pic.

 

 

 

 

A3 pic after update; Trees & bushes dont give off that much heat!    how is this an improvement?

 

What real Thermal looks like; Grass & trees dont glow as you can see.

[jgaz-uk 132]

Is the change for commercial reasons as in previous thermal system would not work in a new engine for ArmA 4?

 

[jgaz-uk 132]

Just discovered that mist &  fog now glow white hot! looking through thermals check it out, Would appreciate a way to role back to previous version of A3 thermal please.

[mickeymen 324]

20 hours ago, jgaz-uk said:

What real Thermal looks like; Grass & trees dont glow as you can see.

 

We can't judge it from one single picture! We don't know what time of year this photo was taken. What weather, what time of day!

I'm sure it must depend on the current location and time of year, time of day and the current weather!

For example If the grass and trees are heated in under the sun, in the July after noon,  then they will just glow, because it was heated in the sun and therefore radiates heat.

And at the same time, in the late evening, it should lose its warmth and fade towards the night. Everything is simple and logical here

 

I agree that the new thermal system is crappy, but I think the main problem is that it has nothing to do with the current weather and time of day.

 

[jgaz-uk 132]

After direct sunlight, rocks, concrete, & tarmac will retain heat for hours (unless it rains)  Trees & bushes will retain very little heat & not for very long. & Steam might be hot, but fog/mist is obviously cold. Basically this update is a big retrograde step for thermal imaginary in ArmA3 & I wonder why they have done it?

In the second picture (A3pic) down you can see glowing trees way off in the distance, the whole thing looks more like a negative of a daylight picture.

 

Taking into account what you say mickey I set the game to 2am on the 6 of December & this is what you get; just as bad!

 

[topden 62]

11 hours ago, mickeymen said:

I agree that the new thermal system is crappy,

 

gold words! real crappy

[zap44 11]

I thought it might be the magic mushrooms.  Hope they go back to the old thermals.  These are unusable.

 

[jgaz-uk 132]

If they care about their loyal customers the should listen to them & change it back the what it was. Please do Bis.

 

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2854993968

 

How on earth can you call this an improvement. whats going on here?

[pierremgi 4879]

Totally unrealistic. Trunks are glowing as well as standard units under effort! They should be more or less at same temperature than the ground.

[Reticuli 14]

While I think it's an improvement in overall visibility, it seems to be partially using the wrong methods to do it, and as a result stuff that should stand out and 'pop' doesn't.  Other clutter is hot enough that a hot body is glowing around glowing bushes, and therefore doesn't stand out enough.  And the most thermally transparent clothing is also still too hot compared to bare skin.

I think this is BI's attempt to increase the detail of stuff that would not otherwise be emitting much IR in that band, because previously it was completely washed out and you couldn't differentiate the dirt from rocks, grass, trees, etc, without some major use of Reshade and/or contrast tweaks.  The solution was tweaking the dynamic range curves they're using, not making trees and grass glow hot like a motor vehicle. 

That said, the multi-color modes are now much better utilized than before, as they're not blasting out your retinas with hot green or pink as much.  Reshade was capable of making them look very useable, though, and now Reshade is less able to improve the new TI inadequacies.  So, if they stick with these color shifts but fix what's hot a little while adjusting the dynamic range curves, that might get to where we need to be in that respect. 

IMO, they have more important issues with thermal imaging than what's glowing hot, though, which includes too wide of a FOV in goggles.  All TI FOV should be narrow in the game, even if you have 16:9 FOV available in NV mode.  Same goes for the Viper helmet, though it's worth noting that the recent changes now make its black-hot mode horrible on the eyes.

Edit: 

I've reverted back to the prior build legacy:

"A Legacy Build Steam branch is available for advanced users. It contains the previous significant main branch version (2.08). It can be used to compare specific changes between major releases. The access code for this branch is: Arma3Legacy208"

https://dev.arma3.com/post/spotrep-00105

To show you what's possible with some tweaks, here is what the NGSW-FC Vortex scope looks like in TI mode with legacy 2.08 build and my Reshade settings:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MSM36VHxW2vUE9-x-6xFB1enFv9KU8aW/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NbuXaidsd2Dr5Ng7Hg6uQ4h-Y6xrtXxv/view?usp=sharing

Here's 'Thermal Vision Goggles by Rad (OP Edition)' Pilot Integrated Vision helmet:

Thermal Vision Goggles by Rad (OP Edition)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15c5EId_R8OEniHhBNLj8EXGcXDxFT2NY/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12g5EKYl-4nPO5XoUUMybvQ0LVlS7dr6S/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UsgnJJaUXVbaYJZbxQQYMz9IWj1QHQYx/view?usp=sharing

***

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G2wM0NS7J1cCB0DUE0qDZu-LjbHmB5ts/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Uw333P_J9aFgp0HjDDF62ghSl-GUpb7K/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ExQaoyb_L-WCjlVeyBbqHcyI9Qa5nNW4/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1j5tM6OBnh7_vJIjQIT79FTMa0q7keYPr/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SPcXFNOqRp0toibad_D6QzUwqDhg4zAB/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PuOheKTLph2l0dxul-NJhR9yVOPTtQKC/view?usp=sharing

[major-stiffy 279]

NVG and heat vision are almost totally useless now. What was BI thinking?

[Reticuli 14]

More on this subject:
 

 

[jgaz-uk 132]

 Thermal is just Black & white Night vision, not a patch on what it was, & what it is in real life, i dont want to revert back to the prior build legacy, as will not be able to join other servers that have not reverted. Why cant bis try listening to the outcry of players not liking the change & revert the update for us all???

 

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2860620749

 

[Mk.Stonebridge 0]

On 9/4/2022 at 3:26 PM, Reticuli said:

While I think it's an improvement in overall visibility, it seems to be partially using the wrong methods to do it, and as a result stuff that should stand out and 'pop' doesn't.  Other clutter is hot enough that a hot body is glowing around glowing bushes, and therefore doesn't stand out enough.  And the most thermally transparent clothing is also still too hot compared to bare skin.

I think this is BI's attempt to increase the detail of stuff that would not otherwise be emitting much IR in that band, because previously it was completely washed out and you couldn't differentiate the dirt from rocks, grass, trees, etc, without some major use of Reshade and/or contrast tweaks.  The solution was tweaking the dynamic range curves they're using, not making trees and grass glow hot like a motor vehicle. 

That said, the multi-color modes are now much better utilized than before, as they're not blasting out your retinas with hot green or pink as much.  Reshade was capable of making them look very useable, though, and now Reshade is less able to improve the new TI inadequacies.  So, if they stick with these color shifts but fix what's hot a little while adjusting the dynamic range curves, that might get to where we need to be in that respect. 

IMO, they have more important issues with thermal imaging than what's glowing hot, though, which includes too wide of a FOV in goggles.  All TI FOV should be narrow in the game, even if you have 16:9 FOV available in NV mode.  Same goes for the Viper helmet, though it's worth noting that the recent changes now make its black-hot mode horrible on the eyes.

Edit: 

I've reverted back to the prior build legacy:

"A Legacy Build Steam branch is available for advanced users. It contains the previous significant main branch version (2.08). It can be used to compare specific changes between major releases. The access code for this branch is: Arma3Legacy208"

https://dev.arma3.com/post/spotrep-00105

To show you what's possible with some tweaks, here is what the NGSW-FC Vortex scope looks like in TI mode with legacy 2.08 build and my Reshade settings:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MSM36VHxW2vUE9-x-6xFB1enFv9KU8aW/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NbuXaidsd2Dr5Ng7Hg6uQ4h-Y6xrtXxv/view?usp=sharing

Here's 'Thermal Vision Goggles by Rad (OP Edition)' Pilot Integrated Vision helmet:

Thermal Vision Goggles by Rad (OP Edition)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15c5EId_R8OEniHhBNLj8EXGcXDxFT2NY/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12g5EKYl-4nPO5XoUUMybvQ0LVlS7dr6S/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UsgnJJaUXVbaYJZbxQQYMz9IWj1QHQYx/view?usp=sharing

***

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G2wM0NS7J1cCB0DUE0qDZu-LjbHmB5ts/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Uw333P_J9aFgp0HjDDF62ghSl-GUpb7K/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ExQaoyb_L-WCjlVeyBbqHcyI9Qa5nNW4/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1j5tM6OBnh7_vJIjQIT79FTMa0q7keYPr/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SPcXFNOqRp0toibad_D6QzUwqDhg4zAB/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PuOheKTLph2l0dxul-NJhR9yVOPTtQKC/view?usp=sharing

Hey can you share your night vision preset please ? 

[Reticuli 14]

On 10/1/2022 at 12:52 PM, Mk.Stonebridge said:

Hey can you share your night vision preset please ? 

I'm mostly using the ReShadePreset preset, but I've included all of mine I can cycle through.  All effects above the alphabetical list below (starting above the Adaptive Fogs) are the effects I have variously had in some combination or other.  Yes, the occlusion effects unfortunately let you see through smoke somewhat with NV mode, but it's the only way to allow the TI modes to see through smoke.  The last few days I've been trying to also improve the NV mode while not too adversely affecting what I achieved in the TI modes.  The most useful way in general is with BloomLensFlares & AdaptiveMapper also On that I just started using and then FilmicPass & UnSharp Off (maybe UnrealLens off, too, that I just started using), because then you get slightly brighter highlights and much darker light amplification/LLTV nightvision.  However, if you turn the former two Off and the latter two On (or a creative combination) you can get something that's better for the TI modes specifically, doesn't require the ACE & BettIR IR flashlight as much, and gets exactly those pics above.  FilmicPass makes not only the NV mode dark without boosting the highlights, though, but also can make the darker TI modes almost unusably dark.  And again, I reverted back to 2.08 legacy branch.

I think this is all my Reshade stuff:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1r2rdYd4YFMYuFkAA5c3e8TLS849s_9oy/view?usp=sharing

Here are my current primary two mod lists.  ACE Dispersion is less necessary on the LessGuns list, as it's intended to rebalance vanilla guns to be more like certain generously accurate mod gun packs:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A-RzaQZFDiKx02qF6COkjKXIzusPev-T/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1az2NljBnq_bK90sP_zdr4iCzpHR_UC5s/view?usp=sharing

And for posterity, here's my Reticuli profile that I just had to recreate and then back up.   Previous to the prior profile reset, I had TPW skirmish max respawn distance at 1,500, but I've left it at 750 for now.  I've turned ACE vehicle crashes off for now, as every bump in car rides was too much and I wanted to survive helo crashes as long as I don't get caught in the fire & cook off.  DCO requires you command a dismount landing of multiple helos at slightly separate times right now due to a bug that causes them to apparently share waypoints and collide.  Obviously, if you want to try all my settings, you should rename the profile(s).  It should still work with 2.10 public and the dev branch, too.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bW8Q1uABsffKkCcTtVc5iOLiSmIGQbOM/view?usp=sharing

Oh, and don't forget ctrl + C to conserve your jogging strength. 🙂 Double shift is faster alternative sprint.  4 is fast weapon swap, so if you accidentally hit it or swap, then hit it again to swap back.  ctrl + T is low ready (ditto default ctrl ctrl) and alt + T is high ready.  Z, X, C are the Enhanced Movement commands when you also hold alt.  I think I put C as climb, Z as the other one (jump?), and X as combo.  J goes to the Command Menu, and its associated keys also require like ctrl + the top row number keys instead of just the number keys alone.  I have tab currently set for the IVCS push to talk.

[jgaz-uk 132]

Players should NOT have to mess with ReShadePreset preset, just to make thermals look more realistic!!

 

Looks like Bis decided to just ignore their loyal customers, & for long enough, for them to just give up & forget about it.

 

They might just move on to other games......

 

Bis please dont treat those " loyal customers" with contempt. At least give them the option to roll back thermals to the previous original version.

[ohNeily 2]

On 10/3/2022 at 7:48 PM, Reticuli said:

I'm mostly using the ReShadePreset preset, but I've included all of mine I can cycle through.  All effects above the alphabetical list below (starting above the Adaptive Fogs) are the effects I have variously had in some combination or other.  Yes, the occlusion effects unfortunately let you see through smoke somewhat with NV mode, but it's the only way to allow the TI modes to see through smoke.  The last few days I've been trying to also improve the NV mode while not too adversely affecting what I achieved in the TI modes.  The most useful way in general is with BloomLensFlares & AdaptiveMapper also On that I just started using and then FilmicPass & UnSharp Off (maybe UnrealLens off, too, that I just started using), because then you get slightly brighter highlights and much darker light amplification/LLTV nightvision.  However, if you turn the former two Off and the latter two On (or a creative combination) you can get something that's better for the TI modes specifically, doesn't require the ACE & BettIR IR flashlight as much, and gets exactly those pics above.  FilmicPass makes not only the NV mode dark without boosting the highlights, though, but also can make the darker TI modes almost unusably dark.  And again, I reverted back to 2.08 legacy branch.

I think this is all my Reshade stuff:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1r2rdYd4YFMYuFkAA5c3e8TLS849s_9oy/view?usp=sharing

Here are my current primary two mod lists.  ACE Dispersion is less necessary on the LessGuns list, as it's intended to rebalance vanilla guns to be more like certain generously accurate mod gun packs:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A-RzaQZFDiKx02qF6COkjKXIzusPev-T/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1az2NljBnq_bK90sP_zdr4iCzpHR_UC5s/view?usp=sharing

And for posterity, here's my Reticuli profile that I just had to recreate and then back up.   Previous to the prior profile reset, I had TPW skirmish max respawn distance at 1,500, but I've left it at 750 for now.  I've turned ACE vehicle crashes off for now, as every bump in car rides was too much and I wanted to survive helo crashes as long as I don't get caught in the fire & cook off.  DCO requires you command a dismount landing of multiple helos at slightly separate times right now due to a bug that causes them to apparently share waypoints and collide.  Obviously, if you want to try all my settings, you should rename the profile(s).  It should still work with 2.10 public and the dev branch, too. IRL, I'd probably just use laser sight like Lasermax https://gritroutdoors.com/lasermax/ over thermal scope anyway. Less weight, less hussle.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bW8Q1uABsffKkCcTtVc5iOLiSmIGQbOM/view?usp=sharing

Oh, and don't forget ctrl + C to conserve your jogging strength. 🙂 Double shift is faster alternative sprint.  4 is fast weapon swap, so if you accidentally hit it or swap, then hit it again to swap back.  ctrl + T is low ready (ditto default ctrl ctrl) and alt + T is high ready.  Z, X, C are the Enhanced Movement commands when you also hold alt.  I think I put C as climb, Z as the other one (jump?), and X as combo.  J goes to the Command Menu, and its associated keys also require like ctrl + the top row number keys instead of just the number keys alone.  I have tab currently set for the IVCS push to talk.

Huge thanks for presets.

 

On 11/16/2022 at 2:46 PM, jgaz-uk said:

Players should NOT have to mess with ReShadePreset preset, just to make thermals look more realistic!!

 

Looks like Bis decided to just ignore their loyal customers, & for long enough, for them to just give up & forget about it.

 

They might just move on to other games......

 

Bis please dont treat those " loyal customers" with contempt. At least give them the option to roll back thermals to the previous original version.

Agree, would be nice to have "legacy thermal" in options instead of messing around with presets...

[Reticuli 14]

On 11/23/2022 at 3:42 AM, ohNeily said:

Huge thanks for presets.

 

Agree, would be nice to have "legacy thermal" in options instead of messing around with presets...

 
These Reshade presets are with legacy thermals.

[Janez 530]

@ohNeily, btw, you don't have to quote all that just to reply one sentence, especially if your post is under theirs. Use @ tag if you want to get someones attention or quote relevant parts of their post. If you have the need to quote their whole, long post, you can use the first and last sentence and <snip> the middle, for example.

[Constantine Tkachenko 3]

Arma3Legacy208 is not available on steam anymore, and thermals are still broken on current version. 
Can we have 208 back please?

[Reticuli 14]

That sucks if you can't get 208 now.

I presume BI didn't revert these changes?

In real thermals, the higher up on horizon the terrain is (denser stuff / deg  V.FOV) the hotter it appears, vs looking down @ ground that's cooler due to less stuff / deg V.FOV assuming similar viewed objects. Obviously if it was hot tarmac under your feet and a grass field in the distance, that's a different situation.

Grass, shrubs, & trees also have less contrast btwn them all & also ground.

***

How to keep using 208 while staying online:  Make the application manifest file in the steam folder for Arma 3 read-only.   You can also turn off workshop updates in Steam settings.  Pause the download, clear Steam cache.  Viola!  Start the launcher directly.

[orborneee 1]

On 10/3/2022 at 11:48 PM, Reticuli said:

I'm mostly using the ReShadePreset preset, but I've included all of mine I can cycle through.  All effects above the alphabetical list below (starting above the Adaptive Fogs) are the effects I have variously had in some combination or other.  Yes, the occlusion effects unfortunately let you see through smoke somewhat with NV mode, but it's the only way to allow the TI modes to see through smoke.  The last few days I've been trying to also improve the NV mode while not too adversely affecting what I achieved in the TI modes.  The most useful way in general is with BloomLensFlares & AdaptiveMapper also On that I just started using and then FilmicPass & UnSharp Off (maybe UnrealLens off, too, that I just started using), because then you get slightly brighter highlights and much darker light amplification/LLTV nightvision.  However, if you turn the former two Off and the latter two On (or a creative combination) you can get something that's better for the TI modes specifically, doesn't require the ACE & BettIR IR flashlight as much, and gets exactly those pics above.  FilmicPass makes not only the NV mode dark without boosting the highlights, though, but also can make the darker TI modes almost unusably dark.  And again, I reverted back to 2.08 legacy branch.

I think this is all my Reshade stuff:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1r2rdYd4YFMYuFkAA5c3e8TLS849s_9oy/view?usp=sharingSuper Mario
Here are my current primary two mod lists.  ACE Dispersion is less necessary on the LessGuns list, as it's intended to rebalance vanilla guns to be more like certain generously accurate mod gun packs:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A-RzaQZFDiKx02qF6COkjKXIzusPev-T/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1az2NljBnq_bK90sP_zdr4iCzpHR_UC5s/view?usp=sharing

And for posterity, here's my Reticuli profile that I just had to recreate and then back up.   Previous to the prior profile reset, I had TPW skirmish max respawn distance at 1,500, but I've left it at 750 for now.  I've turned ACE vehicle crashes off for now, as every bump in car rides was too much and I wanted to survive helo crashes as long as I don't get caught in the fire & cook off.  DCO requires you command a dismount landing of multiple helos at slightly separate times right now due to a bug that causes them to apparently share waypoints and collide.  Obviously, if you want to try all my settings, you should rename the profile(s).  It should still work with 2.10 public and the dev branch, too.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bW8Q1uABsffKkCcTtVc5iOLiSmIGQbOM/view?usp=sharing

Oh, and don't forget ctrl + C to conserve your jogging strength. 🙂 Double shift is faster alternative sprint.  4 is fast weapon swap, so if you accidentally hit it or swap, then hit it again to swap back.  ctrl + T is low ready (ditto default ctrl ctrl) and alt + T is high ready.  Z, X, C are the Enhanced Movement commands when you also hold alt.  I think I put C as climb, Z as the other one (jump?), and X as combo.  J goes to the Command Menu, and its associated keys also require like ctrl + the top row number keys instead of just the number keys alone.  I have tab currently set for the IVCS push to talk.

This is really a complicated method, I hope there will be more optimal solutions 

[jgaz-uk 132]

Basically it seems ArmA 3 thermals, are crap & will remain crap. which is a real shame on you Bis!

[Tankbuster 1746]

Such a shame we've come to this. A feature so comprehensively ruined.

[Rylan Young 2]

Apparently you're supposed to be able to limit the visual range or "temperature" like with a real thermal imaging device.  I believe all FLIR devices have that functionality built in.  There are commands but they are both limited and broken, so there is supposed to be a solution but I guess BI never checked if it worked. I made a feedback ticket for it that explains how and why it is broken and why it certainly needs to be fixed.

A BI dev has confirmed to me personally that you should be able to isolate and normalize a slice of the "temperature" range in Discord and provided further info on how it should work.  I don't know how it took everybody so long to notice lol

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T185536

 

With any luck, this will at least allow mission creators to get something usable out of the current system.  It's a pretty crazy move to just thoroughly break a feature that worked good enough before in the last major update of the game and then just not fix it or roll it back or even do anything to improve it.  I'm quite annoyed by this, honestly, especially since modders can't do anything about it.  Just because this game is old and nearing the end of support and isn't actively being developed doesn't mean it's ok to make it worse or ignore it's problems.