A question to bas addon studio

[Schoeler 0]

How about the OFP Community Upgrade Project. Sort of a competition with BIS to see who can make the better upgrade for the game. We work together to create new units and a campaign or two, and see if we can't give them a run for the money (figuratively speaking of course, as our upgrade would be free). I think this represents a serious challenge to the community, but it sure as hell would be fun wouldn't it?

[Guest BratZ]

I like the FLAC name...not that it has anything to do with me liking planes(lol).

I been trying to match standards,I'm not a weapons expert at all tho.And if we were grouped together,then each modmaker wouldn't have to learn all themselves?

I'm just saying that there are alot of good modmakers holding out on information.Appears every new modder has to learn it all (good way to weed out the incompetent I guess?)

Just that I dream of the day ,that we have enough Units to have a total war or even the disposable war design like BF1942.Seems odd everyone making the same (not same really) rifles and vehicles.I have to be careful on what projects I start,and everyone has models in process we don't know about.Not a very efficient way to get new addons.

I asked and initiate weapons standards,everyone says they want to but nothing happens,I'd like to see progress in that area.

[Sigma-6 29]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OFP was never designed to be a SIM game, and I don't think it would work well if taken to that extreme.<span id='postcolor'>

I disagree. I believe that you set the realism standard, and people who want to put gameplay ahead of it can go ahead, perhaps there's simply a different tag, or even a different regulated standard. . . Personally, I think gameplay is 'enhanced' by realism. . .

IE, the Iraqi trying to figure out a way to kill the Challenger is more fun to me than making the Iraqi's equipment more powerful than it is. It's men and ingenuity that win wars, not gear. . . and "even a child can be taught to find the chinks in any suit of armour". . .

I've found a hundred ways to overwhelm modern US gear, for example, with grossly inferior forces, and in my opinion, it's a lot more fun and more challenging.

[earl 0]

PFLRA

People's Front for the Liberation from Redundant Addons.

...I guess I'm caught in the middle of this discussion about redundant addons, as I'm working on some weapons similar to what BAS has done, and have already heard a lot of groans about "another M4/M16 addon".

The idea certainly has merit - but it might also stifle new talent. If this was already in place before I started modeling for OFP - I probably would never have even started. Why should I do all this work for some committee to tell me "not good enough for the standard addon"? Next, anyone who does try a model that was already done will be forced into direct competition, because you either bump somebody else's work out of the community approved addon, or you lose and your addon won't see the light of day. It would turn me off, and maybe other people would feel the same. In that case, modelers lose the chance to make familiar weapons and build skills.

I'm very apprehensive of any committee or regulations. Maybe that makes me an anarchist, but I think it will be very difficult to keep this system healthy. I'll certainly be watching to see where this goes.

Just to comment on selecting one's model and another's texture... the real skill in texturing is with UV Mapping/Unwrapping which happens on the modeling end. You can't combine weapon #1 with texture #2 without a great deal of work. I would never want to unwrap someone else's model because it's unfamiliar. I plan my texturing while I'm modeling, so when I'm unwrapping, I already know how I will go about doing it.

And, as a last word -- I do remember saying somewhere in my SR-47 thread that I would never get involved with making Western small arms... 'the SR47', (an American rifle that fires Russian ammo) I said, 'is as close as I would ever get'.

Heh.

Suchey's request to get me on board and the awesome progress shots I was seeing is what changed my mind. So here I am in the exact situation that I would rather have avoided...

[Tigershark 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Suchey @ Feb. 22 2003,00:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FL.A.C (Flashpoint Addon Collective)

pronounced like flak

?<span id='postcolor'>

I like this idea.....Flac.....has a ring to it...and the words don't sound like we are some committee which I'm sure the community will react negatively to

[Mora2 0]

Lets face it..... evryone knows which are the best standarised addons here....

When my clan gets the server we will for sure include BAS pack , Seb nam pack and others....

When you are speaking about the collective i should raise it with respect to other modellers....

We don´t like baby talented modders to cry and go away......

And i still want an Iraqui attack force or terrorist group that can match equally BAS and deltas in a multiplayer game...

Cheers

P.D. I´m posturing an opinion from a player soul that loves this game...

[Guest ####]

I think we should as a community take this very slow. Earl is right in regards to getting fresh talent.

I think the initial goal should be to establish standards in the areas of determining weapon damage values and armour values for vehicles. This way we can keep new addons realistic in terms of combat capability. The best way to get reliable information is from multiple sources like manufacturers, real life accounts and thrid party analysis. This information and the equations needed to determine factors like armour values and damage must be published for everyone to use.

[Schoeler 0]

What about abandoning the committee idea, which does seem a bit stifling, and going for the community upgrade. Sort of like IL or Resistance, only a bunch of the teams and top modders get together and we do an OFP Community Upgrade 2003. It beats the pants off fo sitting around and whining about when is BIS gonna give us another upgrade/campaign. Also, from what I've seen the mod teams are putting out work that is as good if not much better than what BIS has put out. Lets see if we can make a game upgrade that beats Independence Lost in quality, or at least rivals it. The only thing we can't do is change the game engine, other than that, the sky is the limit. This would have the effect of standardizing the addons, and reducing the redundancy, because every team would have their own little niche in the project, and it would necessarliy foster open dialogue between the teams, to establish who was doing what, and also to standardize capabilities.

[philcommando 0]

Just my 2cents worth as a 'small guy'.

Collectives, teamwork, etc are nice. Standards, competition, grading of addons are good. If ever the ofp community is a money making business, it sure would be profitable. One day the so called 'quality and realistic' addon teams will monopolised the community and dictate to them what is to be created, when it will be and who should be given the right to create. Already some young immatured chap from such teams had the cheek to dictate to the rest on 'realism' of addons and must measure up to their standards...sheesh! Power corrupts all and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

You folks sure you want another Microsoft of ofp addons? Have we all forgotten what it was like months back when even a chair addon is great? What happened to fun? What is realism when it takes 2 years to train a pilot and u can just fly one in 2 minutes in ofp? What is a perfect soldier but still a virtual human subject to real limitations of damage from massed weaponery and troops?

Those that wanna join a collective, by all means do so and be dictated by them and be just a number in the assembly line for u will only learn only one aspect of ofp game modelling ,eg...modelling, texturing, configuring, testing, etc and bask in the glory of an excellent model of which i believe they will be able to produce.

Those that wanna create, be able to stand on your own feet, experiment and finally create something, anything and share it, u have my respect for you are an achiever and a role model for the rest of us. Doesnt matter if it is lousy and no one wants it, cos as long as u continue to innovate and be motivated, your skills will only get better.

My point is, let freedom rule and makers to create what they wanna create, that way creativity will flourish, for the day we allow standards or a collective to rule us, we will become another drab number in the statistics. After all, i believe genuine addon makers only make addons they wanna play with, overcoming the programming limitations, willingly share their knowledge, addon and not for the sake to impress the community. and with the community's help thru criticism or solutions, their skills will grow. Better a million talents than one talented monopolitic entity.

I guess this community here is as close to an utopian collective as it can get, - the sharing of international ideas and concepts, research and development, etc without any one leader dictating to the rest or claiming any sole credit.

I hereby apologise if i ruffled any feathers. It is just an opinion of mine and hell! i am a nobody anyway.

[VXR 9]

well why not keep it like this? its going ok now with the community and modteams

[ale2999 0]

guys, some of u r not looking through the right perspective: the commitee, would include different ppl and each addon team might have lets say only 1 representative. It could be done even this way: addons r made lets say 10 m16 by 10 diff mission makers, posted on the forum and tried, (must have same standard for accuracy, damage etc) then the community votes, and the commitee makes it a standard. this is a winner.it is not some guy that decide or dictate what we use. the whole community will be involved in the decision making

[VXR 9]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ale2999 @ Feb. 22 2003,10:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">guys, some of u r not looking through the right perspective: the commitee, would include different ppl and each addon team might have lets say only 1 representative. It could be done even this way: addons r made lets say 10 m16 by 10 diff mission makers, posted on the forum and tried, (must have same standard for accuracy, damage etc) then the community votes, and the commitee makes it a standard. this is a winner.it is not some guy that decide or dictate what we use. the whole community will be involved in the decision making<span id='postcolor'>

yes but not all modteams will join the commitee so there will be always different things.

[Guest]

Philcommando...I think you missed some of the point. The idea is partly to reduce unnecesssary duplication of addons, partly to standardise things a bit so you can use one mods addons against anothers without one lot being too under/over powered, and partly to share techniques/ideas. That's all. It's not a commitee (I never mentioned this....all I suggested was a closed forum....) to decided the future of OFP Addons, just a bunch of people who lead teams getting together and co-ordinating.

[Supah 0]

If you guys need hosting for a forum or such i would be more then happy to lend a hand there. I have good, fast and stable hosting and as long as the traffic doesnt go through the roof ... I'd be more then happy to put something back in to the community this way.

[kikill 0]

we have modders, we creators, even good or bad ones.

the matter is that we reached a point where it's too bad to settle there.

the level of quality is growing up. the number of addon maker too.

i think the "problem" is the dispertion of this talent which leads to a number of near identic addons.

just an example :

why is there so many m4 sopmod? beacause one guy has pointed out one detail, and the other's texture is less realistic?

it's ok, that's evolution, i totally agree.

but the ideal would be that both corrections would be fit into one addon.

so, a suggestion, a thread, or forum about the m4 sopmod, where there is a discussion about the major recontruction of the model. everyone would have access, every modders interested on this model would share upgrades, tips, till a final international inter-mod inter-makers standard collective m4 sopmod is out. Again for upgrade 2.

just imagine, BAS weapon pack, TOW weapon pack, BAconbomb's etc... made by BAS TOW Baconbomb etc...

what's the matter if it s open to anyone?

think collective and united.

about the committee, i don't like this idea, but really, do you think a committe would stop one guy to make his addon and upload it for everyone? i don't think so.

[VXR 9]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kikill @ Feb. 22 2003,16:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">just imagine, BAS weapon pack, TOW weapon pack, BAconbomb's etc... made by BAS TOW Baconbomb etc...<span id='postcolor'>

i dont think that will happen in the near future...

[Schoeler 0]

Well, like I said, if a multi-team committee, is too heavy handed for some people at this point in the community's development, then lets get multiple teams together to work on a community upgrade project.  Everyone pick their own little niche of the project and when its done we assemble it all as a game upgrade like IL or Resistance, and make it available to everyone.  I do think some people missed the point about the committee though.  It would be democratic and have representatives from all mods that wish to participate.  These people would not be telling teams, that didn't want to take part what they can and cannot do.  They would be telling members who elect to participate to use a certain model if it sets the standard for the community, or to allow a particular mod to texture that model if their skills are just that much better.  Its all about cooperation and eliminating redundancy, not telling people what to do.  Any team is welcome to challenge the team that set the standard for a particular addon, but the standard only gets replaced when the entire committee (of which the challenging team is a voting member) decides it is better than the previously chosen standard.  Anyway, we may not have reached this level as a community yet, so maintaining individuality and working together on one massive project may be a better solution at this point.

[kikill 0]

with such pessimism maybe...

[theavonlady 2]

Time to move. Almost anything that can be said on the subject has been said here.

Those involved should make the contacts with eachother and be patient in arranging whatever will come out of it.

Best of luck! It will be good for all if it works out.

[9mm 0]

Just 2 more cents from me...

I rememeber the begging of moding in OFP.

Then first attempts of 3d modeling, and eventual oxygen release.

However the real breaking point wat the one when i first saw the "cannot memmory map" window.

Too many addons in my folder.

Installing of everything that is released belongs to past.

However i'm still against of any community regulation on limiting the numbes of released addons.

Coopertion between mod makers?

Yes exchange of ideas and working methods would only improve the quality of released addon.

But the freedem of choice (whether to make an addon or not/ whether to dl it or not) cannot be restricted by any way or any committee.

A syndicate that is good for everyone? Well, Snowden died in great pain becouse Milo used all morphine for syndicate purposes.

[Sigma-6 29]

Who ever said anything about limiting addons released? Whoever said anything about eliminating the little guy, much less 'dictating' what gets made?

Besides, who would be naive enough to think that even if there were a committee, that it would deter anyone from making things? It wouldn't deter me for one, and it wouldn't deter the news pages from posting cool new things (like UFOs, and such.)

I was under the impression that what was being discussed here was (in part) coming up with a database of standard *number values* (not addons), so that if people used the standard number values then they could put a tag on their addon (of their own accord) saying they used those. Obviously (far from 'forcing' people to comply) if people didn't want to use them, they simply wouldn't do it, and no problem. . .

Why would addons be submitted and 'approved' or 'rejected'? Not only would that be draconian, but who would pay the 'commitee'? the task would be gargantuan, and it would suck the life out of the community.

Personally, all I'm talking about is a few people concerned with real numbers getting together to post a *standard set of numbers* (mainly for vehicles). I don't see what's wrong with that, or why it would be 'dictatorial'.

[kikill 0]

sig you're making tanks, red star too or at least they plan to do so.

how would you consider if you work together?

what about you RSS? (and not RAS like i wrote once )

everybody is welcome to answer too... like a survey...

[mooncaine 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sigma-6 @ Feb. 23 2003,21:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why would addons be submitted and 'approved' or 'rejected'? Not only would that be draconian, but who would pay the 'commitee'? the task would be gargantuan, and it would suck the life out of the community.

Personally, all I'm talking about is a few people concerned with real numbers getting together to post a *standard set of numbers* (mainly for vehicles). I don't see what's wrong with that, or why it would be 'dictatorial'.<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I was under the impression that what was being discussed here was (in part) coming up with a database of standard *number values* (not addons), so that if people used the standard number values then they could put a tag on their addon (of their own accord) saying they used those. Obviously (far from 'forcing' people to comply) if people didn't want to use them, they simply wouldn't do it, and no problem. . . <span id='postcolor'>

I'm certainly in agreement with those ideas that offer a rating or standards system, a sort of reference table of standard values coupled with a sort of seal of compliance. There has been some discussion of a 'standard PBO' that would be compiled from such compliant addons, but the two needn't be linked. I'm with Sigma on the issue of a standard reference, and I am well pleased with the notion that it's strictly voluntary.

I just hope that influential sites such as OFPEC do not take the compliance seal as a requirement; i.e., I would not want to see addons rejected for hosting, or even linkage, because they don't comply with the proposed standards. I don't need a filter to protect me from the bad addons, but I [and anyone who will download an addon I make] will benefit from my having learned, from the standards documents, how to comply with standards, and we'd all benefit from knowing whether or not my hypothetical addon actually complied with those standards. I'm totally cool with that.

[bibmi 0]

Talk about jumping into a conversation late...but here goes..

All the ideas expressed in this thread have merit but there is a great chance of opening up a hornest's nest.

There is a lack of "community-spirit" but that is due to the large size of the community and the differing wants and needs of its members. Cooperation between mods is nothing new...it is merely the continuation of what has been happening since the release of the first user made addons. Everything was new, there were no official tools and the only way to learn was to ask and compare. Mods have taken the development of addons to another level due to their increased scope. Moreover, most of these mods are constantly recruiting new talent that emerges or to replenish the pool of addon makers that can't commit the time to making addons. What I fear about the idea of an addon committee is the "Big Brother" syndrome. The idea obviously has merit but could prevent the smaller "independent" addon maker from trying their hand. If I had joined the community six months ago...or even a year ago I would have been scared off making addons purely because of the high quality of addons being made now. Now, the problems with a committee overseeing the manufacture of addons will create the sense of a monopoly and someone will feel scorned or get burned in the process. Cooperation is the key, but trying to give it formalised structure will marginalise some addon makers and mods.

Project Uk Forces and BAS have a pretty close relationship, and through cooperation a large amount of duplication of addons has been avoided, and ideas freely shared. However, I felt comfortable cooperating with BAS because I know the individuals involved and admire their skills and talents. I know I can trust their advice and criticism. Would I have developed such a close relationship with another mod (say a new one) of which I was unfamiliar with its members? Probably not. Why? Because I would be uncertain of where I stood with them...

This is the same fear I have regarding an "addon-committee". Who would be its members? Could it be run by consensus? Would it need a leader? Impartiality? Judgement? Do the needs of the many outweigh those of the few? A hornest's nest from which I, personally, could only see more problems than solutions.

Just a small man's small thoughts

[kikill 0]

another question... deep in space... in a galaxy, far far away...

are modders making addons for theirselves or for the community?

or two :

what the community really want?

damn, three :

what is best for us ?

i wanna get high... sooo high... i am in da sky...

personnaly, i want high mega top quality stuff, i can see how professional some addons are, i become more exigent as the average consumer, meanwhile i admire the effort made by every maker, as i tried OË›... i love bas stuff, but i'm a bit disappointed by the AT, M4 desert camo and when i see what baconbomb can do, i just can't stop hoping for their collaboration. idem for last posted question to SIG. again with TOW delta's and BAS, tell me why didn't they worked together? why should we download another weapon pack? (i know about the comptability with their soldiers) , great, yes, ANOTHER M4... oh, maybe their silencer is shorter then BAS'.

sorry, it's not an attack neither to BAS nor to TOW, it's question i'm asking myself. damn, they would have share the work, we'd have a beautiful weapon, soldier maybe earlier and certainly much better to BAS' : more brain working, more ideas, more knowledge... again, add baconbomb in this project, can you figure out the output? (i love your work bomb! )

swiss mod with BW-mod

WWII mods together

...

damn Vixer you're really right

i have a dream...

utopia when you catch me...