theavonlady 2 Posted February 19, 2003 Your addons are top rate. However, who are all these great west soldiers going to fight against? That is, what equivalent-in-quality east/resistance units are there? Why won't you consider doing non-US/NATO addons just as well? And if you're limited by personnel, recruit them and just manage them to assure that their work meets BAS standards. Also, while we're on the subject, will you consider making Deltas/Rangers with jungle and winter uniforms, if such or similar units really exist? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king homer 1 Posted February 19, 2003 BAS should make some Terrorists, e.g Al Quaida (spell it like that? ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VXR 9 Posted February 19, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Feb. 19 2003,07:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Your addons are top rate. However, who are all these great west soldiers going to fight against? That is, what equivalent-in-quality east/resistance units are there? Why won't you consider doing non-US/NATO addons just as well? And if you're limited by personnel, recruit them and just manage them to assure that their work meets BAS standards. Also, while we're on the subject, will you consider making Deltas/Rangers with jungle and winter uniforms, if such or similar units really exist?<span id='postcolor'> We already have a big and perfect team to work with. We first want to finish the Spec op project after that we will see if we make some terrorists or maybe Iraq forces we dont know yet, looks like the big team doesnt do so much work but there are also some projects that are not announced yet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 19, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Feb. 19 2003,07:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And if you're limited by personnel, recruit them and just manage them to assure that their work meets BAS standards.<span id='postcolor'> It's a nice thought Avon, but this isn't as easy as it sounds. Most people who can make stuff for OFP are making stuff....and are busy with their projects. It's not like there is a big pool of untapped talent out there, just waiting for an email to invite them into a mod team. People do come along now and then, but at this stage I think it is well established who makes addons, and who just plays. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VXR 9 Posted February 19, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Leone @ Feb. 19 2003,08:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Feb. 19 2003,071)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And if you're limited by personnel, recruit them and just manage them to assure that their work meets BAS standards.<span id='postcolor'> It's a nice thought Avon, but this isn't as easy as it sounds. Most people who can make stuff for OFP are making stuff....and are busy with their projects. It's not like there is a big pool of untapped talent out there, just waiting for an email to invite them into a mod team. People do come along now and then, but at this stage I think it is well established who makes addons, and who just plays.<span id='postcolor'> its also a problem when we want to do a little bit less work after the projects we got too many people on the team that may lead to beta-leaks etc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted February 19, 2003 I see the obvious problems here. If I were you, I would go about recruiting a BAS East (BASE) addon team, with new and top people overseeing its management. Once the team is assembled, the BAS West team would share technologies to be incorporated by BASE. Obviously, BASE would have to consist of top talent and honest and reliable members to avoid leaks, etc. There seem to be enough quality Russian and Eastern Europe addon makers out there who might have better access to materials that would help produce better Russian and similar addons. Imagine what they could do if they teamed up and received shared assistance from BAS. Think big! Food for thought. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Major Fubar 0 Posted February 19, 2003 I think it's down to people like AKM74, Kegetys and Sea Demon to keep the east equipped! Good point Avon, most of the big addon teams seem to focus almost solely on the west... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted February 19, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Major Fubar @ Feb. 19 2003,09:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think it's down to people like AKM74, Kegetys and Sea Demon to keep the east equipped! Â <span id='postcolor'> There are others out there who could share the workload and pick up the talents of these "pros", if they would only work together as a team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eviscerator 0 Posted February 19, 2003 We have plans set in place on what our projects are for the next 3 or 4 months, setting up a whole new team for east men/vehicles would be a huge logistical task, just organising it would be hell, and the people you mentioned probably have their own plans for the forseeable future [Edit: just seen youve put bas addon studio, that would be BASAS ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dkraver 1 Posted February 19, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Feb. 19 2003,08:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Major Fubar @ Feb. 19 2003,09:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think it's down to people like AKM74, Kegetys and Sea Demon to keep the east equipped! Â <span id='postcolor'> There are others out there who could share the workload and pick up the talents of these "pros", if they would only work together as a team.<span id='postcolor'> Try looking here its a new addon team recruting people to make east stuff. Red Star Studios Maybe they could be invited into a part of the BAS team with East equipment as speciallity and share the knowledge to get a good east side aswell. Team already have talented people like Sigma-6 with his Russian tanks addons, AKM74 with his BMD-3/3M just to mention 2 of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted February 19, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (dkraver @ Feb. 19 2003,10:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Try looking here its a new addon team recruting people to make east stuff. Red Star Studios Maybe they could be invited into a part of the BAS team with East equipment as speciallity and share the knowledge to get a good east side aswell. Team already have talented people like Sigma-6 with his Russian tanks addons, AKM74 with his BMD-3/3M just to mention 2 of them.<span id='postcolor'> Bingo! Look who's on Red Star's team. Serious folks! A cross-team cooperation would be a boon to the OFP community. Exchange of ideas, techniques, experiences, etc., might expedite their work. Whaddaya say, BAS? Looks like you and RSS could make beautiful music together? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dkraver 1 Posted February 19, 2003 Yub can only agree to that. And maybe if they could talk the guys from the lavos project to join as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dm 9 Posted February 19, 2003 Avon, first off... this is a very valid question, and indeed why haven't we made any Op-For's for our addons... The simple answer is that it's in the pipeline... what, we can not tell you, when is the same... but, rest assured, now we have the experience of working as a team on a big dynamic project, the rate of production from BAS will increase by an immense amount... We have a lot of exciting new addons planned at BAS, a lot of which you will not be expecting, and you will only find out about when they are ready for release... So don't be worried if you do not hear from us for a few weeks, we will be working hard to make the best addons for you... Secondly, as Vixer has allready said, we now have a large and experienced team, who know each other well, and are aware of the skills and limitations of each member. Further to Eviscerators post, adding new members to the team, as well as creating new infrastructure for them would be an immense logistical exercise, one that we do not have the time or energy to achieve (as we are concentrating on making the addons) I do believe that in order to better the addon community all the addon makers should get together to discuss techniques and methods, as well as to share breakthrous and limitations... after all wouldn't making new addons be alot easier if you KNEW EXACTLY what can and can't be done. However this method of doing things is very restricted, as not all addon makers would be willing to share their discoveries and techniques... it has to be an all or nothing venture... also, if you had a private mod makers board, who would you let in? obviously the big/popular addon teams, but what about the little guy? the one who works away quietly on his addon, and then suprises the public with it... how could you get all of them on the same board? Then there are the people who modify addons, they have talent, but should they be allowed to join the modmakers board? In theory an idea like this is great, in practice it would never work... great ideas... not great to implement just my 0.02$ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted February 19, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DeadMeatXM2 @ Feb. 19 2003,12:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We have a lot of exciting new addons planned at BAS, a lot of which you will not be expecting, and you will only find out about when they are ready for release... So don't be worried if you do not hear from us for a few weeks, we will be working hard to make the best addons for you...<span id='postcolor'> OK. Me shaddap. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Further to Eviscerators post, adding new members to the team, as well as creating new infrastructure for them would be an immense logistical exercise, one that we do not have the time or energy to achieve (as we are concentrating on making the addons)<span id='postcolor'> That's why my last suggestion was an alliance or cooperation with another team, rather than actually managing one. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I do believe that in order to better the addon community all the addon makers should get together to discuss techniques and methods, as well as to share breakthrous and limitations... after all wouldn't making new addons be alot easier if you KNEW EXACTLY what can and can't be done. However this method of doing things is very restricted, as not all addon makers would be willing to share their discoveries and techniques... it has to be an all or nothing venture... also, if you had a private mod makers board, who would you let in? obviously the big/popular addon teams, but what about the little guy? the one who works away quietly on his addon, and then suprises the public with it... how could you get all of them on the same board? Then there are the people who modify addons, they have talent, but should they be allowed to join the modmakers board?<span id='postcolor'> Use the forums here. Reveal your trade secrets. Make them "open source" for the community to flourish. What are you worried about? Competition? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 19, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Feb. 19 2003,12:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I do believe that in order to better the addon community all the addon makers should get together to discuss techniques and methods, as well as to share breakthrous and limitations... after all wouldn't making new addons be alot easier if you KNEW EXACTLY what can and can't be done. However this method of doing things is very restricted, as not all addon makers would be willing to share their discoveries and techniques... it has to be an all or nothing venture... also, if you had a private mod makers board, who would you let in? obviously the big/popular addon teams, but what about the little guy? the one who works away quietly on his addon, and then suprises the public with it... how could you get all of them on the same board? Then there are the people who modify addons, they have talent, but should they be allowed to join the modmakers board?<span id='postcolor'> Use the forums here. Reveal your trade secrets. Make them "open source" for the community to flourish. What are you worried about? Competition? <span id='postcolor'> An interesting point. Since no-one is being paid...what is the point in keeping techniques (not planned projects) secret? Afterall, once they are released any interested party will just crack it open and look? That being said, maybe interested parties just have to ask the right questions. otherwise these forums might end up with hundreds of posts describing the same thing (or more of it) and even more of the same "How do I....?" questions over and over. Plus there is always OFPEC for this sort of thing. It seems to be a much more focussed discussion of technique...is that the sort of thing you were talking about Avon and DeadMeat? If not, how would it be different to OFPEC? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted February 19, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Leone @ Feb. 19 2003,14:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Plus there is always OFPEC for this sort of thing. It seems to be a much more focussed discussion of technique...is that the sort of thing you were talking about Avon and DeadMeat? If not, how would it be different to OFPEC?<span id='postcolor'> Here or at OFPEC, makes no difference to me. Let them choose whatever's best. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tigershark 0 Posted February 19, 2003 Avonlady...as always an excellent suggetsion. Deadmeat has made an excellent post detailing some of the difficulties here....but let me add one more thing. Firstly..I hold high hopes for Red Star Studios...they are seeking to fill a gap that the community desperately needs. There are 2 issues I have with your suggestion other than the one highlighted by Deameat 1. This is the most obvious. The community has a long way to come in the spirit of co-operation before this becomes reality. I am an avid Falcon4 player and I can say that their community has matured at a fater pace than ours. Why you say? Because at some point...everyone decided to join forces to make a better game for the good of all and combine forces. Now AvonLady...you might say this is what you are suggesting...and in theory it is true. However....lets face facts....we cannot even use other peoples weapons when we make a mod...every addon maker has to ship his own version of the M4 with their addon. I had hoped that BAS would change this...that by establishing ourselves as a benchmark of quality people would willingly use our weapons pack and even CONTIRBUTE their models and improvements to the weapon pack in order to make the definitive pack for the good of the community. Unfortunately we haven't matured as a community to that level yet....and that hinders many of your good ideas. I have been able to convince the Codeblue mod that they might benefit from using the BAS wepaons pack as a unified weapons source....but other mods insist they can do it better. Is the BAS the best weapons maker....no...but we share a philosophy of quality...and if weapons makers want to contribute to the pack (with full credit) that we hopes set the standard...then we welocme this. Unfortunately many mods still insist on shipping their own weapons pack??? 2. This point is more subtle.....when I started OFPEC...the reason it was so successful in the early days was because we centered our goals and efforts on one simple task:Editing. We do not seek to be the best news site..the best mission site...it was all about focusing on one asepect but doing it very well. BAS is built on the same philosohy...we concentrate on what we know and do well....units we a re comfortable with. Now...as DM pointed out...we have some projects in the works but I still believe that focusing on one thing but doing it very well (ie. spec ops units of the US) we make our position that much stronger. Much in the same way that you focus on the FAQ Avonlady you have enjoyed much success. Your idea has merit...and it has certainly got me to thinking.......but I still believe that until the community can put egos aside and join forces to better the game for the collective, we have a long way to go before mods co-operate with each other. Another deciding factor here would obviously be the age differences between the F4 community and the adolescent culture of the OFP community. I'm sure this also influences things greatly. Fans of more mature years would probably agree with your ideas in principle (as I do)...but in practice this is a lot more difficult than it sounds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Matthijs 40 Posted February 19, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Feb. 19 2003,12:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">(...) What are you worried about? Competition? <span id='postcolor'> I think that many people are worried about others taking credit for their ideas. I must agree that this can be a problem. It's just loads of fun to take credit for nice things! Then again... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tigershark 0 Posted February 19, 2003 Nice sig Matthijs! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted February 19, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Matthijs @ Feb. 19 2003,17:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Feb. 19 2003,12:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">(...) What are you worried about? Competition? <span id='postcolor'> I think that many people are worried about others taking credit for their ideas. I must agree that this can be a problem. It's just loads of fun to take credit for nice things!<span id='postcolor'> As was mentioned already, anyone right now can unpack an addon and rip it off. It wouldn't take long to detect this and the community hasn't taken well to the few times this has happened in the past. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VXR 9 Posted February 19, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Feb. 19 2003,16:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">6--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Matthijs @ Feb. 19 2003,176)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Feb. 19 2003,12:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">(...) What are you worried about? Competition? <span id='postcolor'> I think that many people are worried about others taking credit for their ideas. I must agree that this can be a problem. It's just loads of fun to take credit for nice things!<span id='postcolor'> As was mentioned already, anyone right now can unpack an addon and rip it off. It wouldn't take long to detect this and the community hasn't taken well to the few times this has happened in the past.<span id='postcolor'> matthijs means by keeping it secret the other modmakers would not takeover the idea of making the same idea, so when we got something almost completed we announce it and release it short after. We also keep it secret so we dont have much pressure from the community like "when is this done and when will you release it" 100x via mail. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted February 19, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tigershark @ Feb. 19 2003,17:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1. This is the most obvious. The community has a long way to come in the spirit of co-operation before this becomes reality.<span id='postcolor'> I'm a bit shocked by some of the things you are saying. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">However....lets face facts....we cannot even use other peoples weapons when we make a mod...every addon maker has to ship his own version of the M4 with their addon. I had hoped that BAS would change this...that by establishing ourselves as a benchmark of quality people would willingly use our weapons pack and even CONTIRBUTE their models and improvements to the weapon pack in order to make the definitive pack for the good of the community. Unfortunately we haven't matured as a community to that level yet....and that hinders many of your good ideas. I have been able to convince the Codeblue mod that they might benefit from using the BAS wepaons pack as a unified weapons source....but other mods insist they can do it better. Is the BAS the best weapons maker....no...but we share a philosophy of quality...and if weapons makers want to contribute to the pack (with full credit) that we hopes set the standard...then we welocme this. Unfortunately many mods still insist on shipping their own weapons pack???<span id='postcolor'> You expect others to "donate" their addons to BAS? This is unbelievable! I didn't say you should swallow up other addon teams like a death star. I suggested cooperation, affiliation, coordination and exchange of ideas and technology. BAS would remain BAS and other teams would remain independent. That's what cooperation is about. You would all know what each is developing so that there won't be any redundancy. You would use the same quality standards. You would share code, textures, etc. when possible. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">2. This point is more subtle.....when I started OFPEC...the reason it was so successful in the early days was because we centered our goals and efforts on one simple task:Editing. We do not seek to be the best news site..the best mission site...it was all about focusing on one asepect but doing it very well. BAS is built on the same philosohy...we concentrate on what we know and do well....units we a re comfortable with.<span id='postcolor'> That's why in my latter suggestions I suggested affiliation rather than expansion. The advantages are: 1. BAS keeps on doing what they do best (i.e., US/West addons, etc.) 2. The affiliate gets the shared knowhow to produce other addons that would compliment BAS'. 3. This keeps the team management workloads similar to what they are now. 4. Work is done in parallel by 2 separate groups. 5. The player community only benefits. 6. Strengthening an affiliate allows them to become independent. When another addon team comes around wishing to affiliate themselves with both BAS and BAS' first affiliate, both teams will now be able to assist the new affiliate member, reducing the overall burden of enlarging the circle of quality addon teams. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">but I still believe that until the community can put egos aside and join forces to better the game for the collective, we have a long way to go before mods co-operate with each other.<span id='postcolor'> I just don't see the problem. I mean, if you know something about another addon team right now that jives with this, OK, you know. But otherwise, there are others who have been here for quite a while and look like long term players. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">but in practice this is a lot more difficult than it sounds.<span id='postcolor'> True but maybe worth a try. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted February 19, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Vixer @ Feb. 19 2003,17:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">matthijs means by keeping it secret the other modmakers would not takeover the idea of making the same idea, so when we got something almost completed we announce it and release it short after.<span id='postcolor'> That's even less of a problem, in my opinion. 1. I'm talking about an affiliate who is making anything but what BAS is making. East addons is a good example. As Tigershark mentioned, BAS' knowledge is in the west addons in particular. 2. I didn't say you had to tell them what in BAS' pipeline. This is a technology share effort more than anything else. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We also keep it secret so we dont have much pressure from the community like "when is this done and when will you release it" 100x via mail.<span id='postcolor'> Bah! Just say no! And put persistant emailers like that on BAS' kill list. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tigershark 0 Posted February 19, 2003 You misunderstand me Avon....its not about swallowing up...its about forming a co-operative....a collection of addon makers...who all contribute their original weapons to one PBO.....it doesn't matter who has ultimate ownership of it...hell it could be a board of representatives from various mods. But a great start at making this community one wold be to have one standard set of weapons PBOs. Or do you enjoy having several M4s, SAWs, M40A1s, MP5s sitting on your machine not knowing which one to use in your mission because you dont know which pack your audience has. You're missing the bigger picture...this is bigger than BAS...I had just hoped tha BAS would through it reputation kick things off....but like I said...at the end of the day, who own the consolidated weapons pack is notas important as creating one to begin with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tigershark 0 Posted February 19, 2003 And BAS still has a philosophy of technology sharing...we aren't keeping anything secret. We do want to get all the bugs sorted out before we distribute stuff to other mods though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
