Tanks - Missile flight profiles and weapon improvements

[SuicideKing 233]

Yeah people in our community seem to be having issues with the PCML trajectory too. Definitely needs a tweak.

 

And a month old but related... https://feedback.bistudio.com/T127900

[scavenjer 112]

I don't know how I missed this, but the Qilin AT has an issue with the aimpoint for the missile being offset and lower than it should be.

https://streamable.com/a373m

 

From actually playing several hours yesterday on a PvP server on Altis, I can conclude that the 2KM limit for guiding the vorona is just a little bit too short IMO, it offers very few benefits over the titan and overall I'd say the titan is more effective.

Bumping up the maximum guidance range to 2.5 or perhaps even 3KM would definitely set them more apart and offer significant benefits for both, instead of the titan being better overall.

 

This is just my opinion though and this was from using the vehicle mounted versions (perhaps only the vehicle mounted ones could have a little more range?).

 

 

edit: overall the actual performance of these systems is definitely good, haven't had the opportunity to try against actual MBTs yet, but panthers etc are well within the missiles capacity to deal with effectively.

[scavenjer 112]

Hmm, just noticed that the Titan AT cannot lock onto lasers, and if the vehicle is being lased the titan can't lock onto the vehicle either.

Same with the FireFist, is this intended behaviour @oukej?

 

Seems a little odd that the FireFist can't lock onto a laser since the Nyx Recon has one... same with the Titan on the Kamysh etc.

[martin_lee 33]

I think they removed their ability to lock onto laser a while ago. At least that's the case for the titan.

[scavenjer 112]

Just now, martin_lee said:

I think they removed their ability to lock onto laser a while ago. At least that's the case for the titan.

Yeah, not entirely sure it's intended for the vehicle variants though.

I mean, what would be the point for the Nyx Recon for it to have a laser designator then?

[Strike_NOR 898]

8 hours ago, scavenjer said:

I mean, what would be the point for the Nyx Recon for it to have a laser designator then?

 

To do its job as a Recon element and provide target designation for other vehicles.

[DennyMala 10]

Well, even if lased, the aiming system of the missile should target and engage as if the laser weren't there. The fact it's already designated is a plus for the weapon systems that can lock on it remotely but if you have a line of sight you should be able to engage the target regardless.

 

One more thing about flight profiles: since there are more than one type of alternate profile for missiles (top attack, overhead flight,....) it should be mentioned in the in game database what king of profile the weapon support as you might end up thinking of a top attack with high flying profile for a missile that will go directly over the target and thus hitting terrain or buildings in his trajectory.

 

I couldn't find any detailed info on this.

[scavenjer 112]

2 hours ago, Strike_NOR said:

 

To do its job as a Recon element and provide target designation for other vehicles.

Well yes, but I think it's weird that the two vehicles that are most likely to accompany the Nyx Recon (Nyx AT and Gorgon) can't use that same laser to lock onto.

 

I mean, the NATO rhino can lock on... But that's a different faction, see what I mean?

 

I do understand that the infantry titan can't lock onto lasers though, I want to make it clear that I'm specifically talking about the Nyx AT and to a lesser extent the Gorgon.

[SuicideKing 233]

1 hour ago, scavenjer said:

Well yes, but I think it's weird that the two vehicles that are most likely to accompany the Nyx Recon (Nyx AT and Gorgon) can't use that same laser to lock onto.

They have IR missiles though. I assume the Nyx's lase can be used to guide Scalpels/GBUs from aircraft. (there's also a NATO skin available for the Nyx so it's sorta multi-faction).

[scavenjer 112]

2 hours ago, SuicideKing said:

They have IR missiles though. I assume the Nyx's lase can be used to guide Scalpels/GBUs from aircraft. (there's also a NATO skin available for the Nyx so it's sorta multi-faction).

Yes....

Scalpels are CSAT though, GBUs, well fair enough, but that's assuming there's air support.

 

I just find it odd that the Nyx AT can't lock on to the Nyx recon's laser.

The lase is visible in IR, so I don't see a reason why the FireFist shouldn't be able to use it.

After all, it's a bigger system than the infantry titan.

[el76 0]

Is there any documentation about the available flight profiles ?

All i found so far is direct, TopDown and loalAltitude.

 

Especially i'm looking for the terrain-following config entries.

[DennyMala 10]

6 minutes ago, el76 said:

Is there any documentation about the available flight profiles ?

All i found so far is direct, TopDown and loalAltitude.

 

Especially i'm looking for the terrain-following config entries.

 

Yup, as I said telling wich missile does what profile.

[Ryan Stover 0]

Would this also happen to have an effect on the Greyhawks scalpels , it seems if your more than 2km away it will not hit a target ( ex. Loiter 1500m at 2k alt , miss all the time , lower to 500m alt still 1500m loiter and you'll peg stuff all day )

 Nvm apparently a mod is at fault

 

[DennyMala 10]

Playing with tanks after the DLC I found more issues with the cannon launched misisles not hitting their target even when stationary.

 

At close range, the AI gunner always seem to have the missile go on top attack mode and thus overshooting by a good amount (no way to have it switch to direct mode as a commander, you need to hop in the gunner position), happening from a Kuma; at long range on a stationary target I missed with 4 consecutive shots from the Rhino of the showcase mission with the missile always doing the exact same flight.

 

The target of the Rhino showcase was a bit covered from sight but could be targeted and missile seemed to overshoot a bit in the terminal part of the top attack course.

 

Anyone else is having this kind of issues?

[Yoshi_E 179]

6 minutes ago, DennyMala said:

-snip-

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T128199

[DennyMala 10]

16 minutes ago, Yoshi_E said:

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T128199

 

Well, to me the problem was targeting it directly from the Rhino, my missile worked flawlessly for many times straight when targeting the laser designation that is an objective of the showcase.

 

And that puzzles me even more...

 

In the end, we would need a fix to the flight/targeting profile of missiles and a fix to the AI gunner decision on what mode to use based on range (top attack is good as default but not feasible under a certain range).
It would be good to have a way as a commander to order the gunner a particular fire mode.

Edited April 17, 2018 by DennyMala
Adding

[Cenwulf 40]

I’ve noticed a potential problem with the Rhino MGS  Up and the new cannon launched ATGM, not sure if this is the right place to report it or if it’s already been reported but hear goes.

 

Unless I’m doing something very wrong I believe that neither the gunner nor commander turret are equipped with a laser sensor. This means that the commanders laser designator does not appear on his sensor panel and cannot be selected as a target for the gunner.

 

I noticed this while playing the Tank Destroyer Showcase scenario, as the commander I’m able to lock and command the gunner to fire the ATGM at the scripted laser point but my own laser point doesn’t appear on the sensor panel and so cannot be targeted in the same way. Is this a bug or is it intended for balance purposes that you can only lock on to a laser point shared over datalink from a laser sensor equipped unit?

[scavenjer 112]

3 hours ago, Cenwulf said:

-snip- 

It should work, you can bring up the sensor panel as both the commander and driver and the commander's laser should appear on that.

 

I've actually used it in PvP a couple of times, though I have noticed on KoTH (vanilla) that I couldn't lock on to infantry lasers or friendly lasers in general.

It did work with the commander's laser though.

 

I'm interested to know why it didn't work.

Could it be because faction settings or data link settings?

[oukej 2910]

3 hours ago, Cenwulf said:

Unless I’m doing something very wrong I believe that neither the gunner nor commander turret are equipped with a laser sensor. This means that the commanders laser designator does not appear on his sensor panel and cannot be selected as a target for the gunner.

It's missing from the changelog, but since around these dev. updates any vehicle or person with laser designator "knows" about its own laser. Moreover he's able to share it via datalink. And yes, soldiers can now be connected to DL too, report their lasers and their own positions.

[Cenwulf 40]

12 hours ago, oukej said:

It's missing from the changelog, but since around these dev. updates any vehicle or person with laser designator "knows" about its own laser. Moreover he's able to share it via datalink. And yes, soldiers can now be connected to DL too, report their lasers and their own positions.

 

Aha. Thanks for clarifying, oukej.

 

To follow up though, does that mean that if I’m in the commanders position of the Rhino MGS Up, should my own laser spot appear on the sensors panel as a red laser marker and should I be able to command the gunner to lock it with “Next target” or “reveal target/target” key?

 

Edit: I’ve just tried it out in the editor and it works perfectly but for some reason I couldn’t get the laser spot to show up or lock yesterday when I tried it in the showcase mission after I’d engaged the AA with the scripted laser spot. I’ll have another go tonight to be sure.

[oukej 2910]

Yes,

1 minute ago, Cenwulf said:

To follow up though, does that mean that if I’m in the commanders position of the Rhino MGS Up, should my own laser spot appear on the sensors panel as a red laser marker and should I be able to command the gunner to lock it with “Next target” or “reveal target/target” key?

"Lock target" (mark a target under the cursor / center of the screen) will do. The gunner will track the laser only with cannon selected.
"Next target" should work as long as the gunner has ATGM loaded and selected.

[scavenjer 112]

What's your opinion on the FireFist not being able to lock on to the laser of the Nyx Recon?

@oukej

[snoops_213 75]

11 hours ago, oukej said:

It's missing from the changelog, but since around these dev. updates any vehicle or person with laser designator "knows" about its own laser. Moreover he's able to share it via datalink. And yes, soldiers can now be connected to DL too, report their lasers and their own positions.

This is bloody awesome. Going to go dig up some old projects now and see if this helps! One thing about the DL in the vehicles is atm it is a bit pointless unless some sensor equipped vehicle (AA vehicle or planes) is present as the tanks/apc's dont seem to have any sensors defined of their own, which is needed to report enemies via DL. Another thing i'd love to see changed if possible is NLOS weapons/missiles not actually need LOS. I tested the MGS's  atgm with AI and in VR no problems but on a terrain island the AI refuses to fire its weapon over a hill (unless ordered to by player). Some weapons/missiles should have the LOS algorithm taken out of the firing solution so AI will use them properly. 

[Strike_NOR 898]

13 hours ago, scavenjer said:

What's your opinion on the FireFist not being able to lock on to the laser of the Nyx Recon?

 

I know you did not ask me, but I don't care :p

 

According to Raytheon and other unofficial sources, the Javelin (FireFist) is an IIR seeking weapon (imaging infra red), meaning it locks onto infra red heat and can distinguish shapes/geometry. This is why it can be employed against vehicles, slow moving helicopters, structures and infantry, because the algorithms try to trace the shape of the object it is locked to during flight.

 

Either way, this means it does not target laser spots from target designators. 

 

 

HOWEVER!!!!

 

This is a game, and while approximate to reality, there are liberties to consider. There are a few things that come to mind:

 

• Technology of 2035 could allow this kind of behavior.
• The recon and AT Nyx would better compliment each other if the AT variant could hide behind cover, while the Recon does the scouting/designating for it.

These points argue towards having the FireFist laser-homing capable. It is, after all, a bigger-better variant of the Titan AT, and the Nyx already is kind of an underdog tank. 

I think it's worth considering at least :)

[scavenjer 112]

@Strike_NOR 

Yeah, that's what I meant.