Jets DLC - rendering distance limitations

[petek 62]

1 hour ago, nikiforos said:

Yeah it's a shame takes away the glory from DLC Jets platform update , at least for me.

TBH it's kind of messed up the game for me generally.... As an infantry unit having a bloody big lighthouse pop up as soon as you're 2km away is shocking! A test with a blackfoot at Stratis air base at 300m altitude currently only renders vehicles at 1.3km for me (ie just at the other end of the airfield)

 

Using the same set up in the Virtual Reality map shows this "optimisation" issue even more - same asset set up, no buildings or terrain to render and still non-visible til 1.3km!

As it stands can't even use an object-free map to improve this........

 

Reyhard - do you know of any ways to bypass this optimisation? The oversampling doesn't work as mentioned earlier. I'll happily take a performance hit to make the game enjoyable again! Thanks in advance of any help.

 

I'd be eager to hear from anyone who runs powerful PCs about what their experience is with this. I can't afford to upgrade at the mo (and hell,a year ago, original campaign etc was fine so was not needed!) but does anyone have decent render distances using the standard setting not using setFeatureType 2;?

 

I love BIS for keeping working on a game that's 4 years old but I never thought an optimisation would "render" a core aspect of it to me (ie an attack helo "seeing" ground vehicles more than 1km away) unplayable ;-(

 

[sammael 366]

is it same bug?-with view object and distance = 30 000m I`m locking in max zoom mode TGP on enemy jet  from 13 km but don`t have target visual . Jet appear visual only at distnce 1-2km

[petek 62]

3 minutes ago, sammael said:

is it same bug?-with view object and distance = 30 000m I`m locking in max zoom mode TGP on enemy jet  from 13 km but don`t have target visual . Jet appear visual only at distnce 1-2km

Hi - I think it's a distinct possibility ..... and I fear it's not a bug but part of this optimisation that was brought in (can't believe I only noticed it recently.... guess it's due to checking out the jets and dynamic load out changes) I can get locks far out range was but also can't see vehicle til 1-2km. If you use the setFeatureType 2; it renders them - but only impacts on objects and vehicle you place yourself as far as I can tell.

 

cheers

[sammael 366]

It is normal -you can`t  see soldier from 5km with naked eye , but  it is not  normal when this limitation affect TGP view

[Grumpy Old Man 3546]

13 hours ago, ozzbik said:

Too bad that this option (setFeatureType 2) can not be set by options in view settings menu (for moving objects). It's sad that planes just disappear in thin air, while the view distance is set much higher.

No idea about editing a config but wouldn't it be possible to override he featuretype in the config for all helicopter and plane child classes and have a simple addon enable the featuretype 2 for all aircrafts?

 

Cheers

[Greenfist 1863]

2 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

No idea about editing a config but wouldn't it be possible to override he featuretype in the config for all helicopter and plane child classes and have a simple addon enable the featuretype 2 for all aircrafts?

 

Yes. All objects can have the "featureType = 2" in their config. This does the same as the script command.

I suspect BI plans to do something to improve this. Adding the command just a few months before the Jets DLC might not be a coincidence.

[Grumpy Old Man 3546]

Yesterday I played around with this command a bit.

Absolutely mind blowing being able to see fighters in formation passing by at 2km altitude given the proper terrain view distance.

Having terrain view distance at 10km+ shouldn't really be a problem for current gen gpus (1060+)

 

Cheers

[petek 62]

4 minutes ago, Greenfist said:

Yes. All objects can have the "featureType = 2" in their config. This does the same as the script command.

I suspect BI plans to do something to improve this. Adding the command just a few months before the Jets DLC might not be a coincidence.

I also assumed it wasn't a coincidence;-)

 

It's a Good idea. Personally I'd like to be able to override this for everything and take the performance hit - ground pop ups (or fade ins if you're walking) are hideous for me....)

 

[Vojtechsonik 34]

To those who try it - would you say this is a change for better?

To devs - is it possible to have new feature only (for jets focused gameplay) and then have the new feature and full object rendering distance (e.g. in SP)?

Thanks to guys who are giving feedback. Would really love to help too, but my connection is too slow :(

[petek 62]

22 minutes ago, Vojtechsonik said:

To those who try it - would you say this is a change for better?

To devs - is it possible to have new feature only (for jets focused gameplay) and then have the new feature and full object rendering distance (e.g. in SP)?

Thanks to guys who are giving feedback. Would really love to help too, but my connection is too slow :(

Hi - it really improves being able to see vehicles and placed buildings further than currently (I'd still love confirmation from anyone witha high-end rig about how close they need to get for vehicles to render - in my testing it was always less than 2km irrespective of object and terrain view distance )  I'm not great at scripting but what I've used is this in the init field (anyone knowledgable feel free to jump in;-));-

 

for "_x" DO {THIS setFeatureType 2;}

 

Withthis an ifrit was visible approx 3.5km away from a blackhawk (an ifrit next to it without this popped up at 1.3km)

 

Hope it helps

[.kju 3245]

> Airborne chopper to be rendered in larger distances

https://dev.withsix.com/issues/27584

 

Ondrej implemented this for OA; i guess the engine change was not merged into A3 (probably forgotten).

[twistking 204]

13 hours ago, Greenfist said:

[...]

I suspect BI plans to do something to improve this. Adding the command just a few months before the Jets DLC might not be a coincidence.

 

Yes, improvments on that would be very welcome. I hope they also improve and unify general view distance settings for multiplayer/server.

Last time i checked, the setiewdistance command would always overwrite the higher rendering distance of landmark buildings. Also for multiplayer there should be easy settings in eden for host/internal view distance (ai view distance etc.) and optionally forced client viewdistance (absolut, or minimum - maximum).

[arkhir 135]

6 hours ago, Vojtechsonik said:

To those who try it - would you say this is a change for better?

I've done some testing with this new command:

• setFeatureType 1
  Seems to be good for important ground objects, such as AA(A) platforms during SEAD missions, armour and other assets significant for the jet. This command can be used to make sure that the object marked with it will render with proper LODs, even over far ranges or when using wide FoVs (low zoom). I am not sure if this is the case, but it seems this parameter forces rendering even when the object is covered by geo occluder or when current FoV levels wouldn't allow for rendering it. Thus, it makes spotting these objects easier in thermovision over extended ranges. Sometimes an object with hot thermal sig wouldn't render anyways if the zoom wasn't enough.
• setFeatureType 2
  This parameter seems to be very useful for aerial assets. It will make the job much easier for the JTAC, allowing him to have reasonable OVD (2-3k for best performance at ground) with very high VD (12k!) to spot the plane early on and direct it onto target. Other than that it allows pilots to engage over long ranges, often far beyond visual, it also prevents the annoying plane/object 'pop in'. Could be utilized for large landmark objects (think oilrigs; no more pop-in) and aerial assets.

As far as PiP goes, still no change. It's not very useful for watching the TGP feed, even on ultra.

 

Some questions to the devs:

1. Is featureType 1 forcing rendering even when it wouldn't otherwise happen, as I've seemed to notice, or does the FoV limitation still apply?
   After some optimizations regarding object rendering with higher OVD settings I've noticed that some objects won't render unless zoomed in, and this command would be very useful to override that.
2. Apparently AI performance is tied to the VD set on the machine they're local to. Do they even care about object view distance, or is it only the case with general view distance?
   If AI doesn't take OVD into account then I guess setFeatureType = 2 makes no difference, because they always 'see' something as long as it's within their VD.
3. Do featureType parameters influence PiP rendering distance in any way shape or form?
4. Is it possible to somehow influence PiP camera rendering distance, so I can see my targets in PiP view even on ranges longer than ~2km?

[xxgetbuck123 945]

6 hours ago, arkhir said:

I've done some testing with this new command:

• setFeatureType 1
  Seems to be good for important ground objects, such as AA(A) platforms during SEAD missions, armour and other assets significant for the jet. This command can be used to make sure that the object marked with it will render with proper LODs, even over far ranges or when using wide FoVs (low zoom). I am not sure if this is the case, but it seems this parameter forces rendering even when the object is covered by geo occluder or when current FoV levels wouldn't allow for rendering it. Thus, it makes spotting these objects easier in thermovision over extended ranges. Sometimes an object with hot thermal sig wouldn't render anyways if the zoom wasn't enough.
• setFeatureType 2
  This parameter seems to be very useful for aerial assets. It will make the job much easier for the JTAC, allowing him to have reasonable OVD (2-3k for best performance at ground) with very high VD (12k!) to spot the plane early on and direct it onto target. Other than that it allows pilots to engage over long ranges, often far beyond visual, it also prevents the annoying plane/object 'pop in'. Could be utilized for large landmark objects (think oilrigs; no more pop-in) and aerial assets.

As far as PiP goes, still no change. It's not very useful for watching the TGP feed, even on ultra.

 

Some questions to the devs:

1. Is featureType 1 forcing rendering even when it wouldn't otherwise happen, as I've seemed to notice, or does the FoV limitation still apply?
   After some optimizations regarding object rendering with higher OVD settings I've noticed that some objects won't render unless zoomed in, and this command would be very useful to override that.
2. Apparently AI performance is tied to the VD set on the machine they're local to. Do they even care about object view distance, or is it only the case with general view distance?
   If AI doesn't take OVD into account then I guess setFeatureType = 2 makes no difference, because they always 'see' something as long as it's within their VD.
3. Do featureType parameters influence PiP rendering distance in any way shape or form?
4. Is it possible to somehow influence PiP camera rendering distance, so I can see my targets in PiP view even on ranges longer than ~2km?

 

Great research mate! Hopefully the Devs take this one board! Keen about the 'setFeatureType 2'! Great news

[Grumpy Old Man 3546]

13 hours ago, petek said:

for "_x" DO {THIS setFeatureType 2;}

 

Withthis an ifrit was visible approx 3.5km away from a blackhawk (an ifrit next to it without this popped up at 1.3km)

 

I doubt this worked at all.

For a temporary solution run this:

_vehicles = ["B_MBT_01_arty_F"];//vehicle classes that should be visible
_loop = _vehicles spawn {
	params ["_vehicles"];
	while {true} do {
	
		{
		if (typeOf _x isKindof "Air" OR typeof _x in _vehicles) then {_x setFeatureType 2};
		} forEach vehicles;

	sleep 10;
	};
};

Will make every air vehicle visible at terrain view distance, also can add other vehicle class names into the vehicle array, they will be treated the same.

 

Cheers

[kremator 1065]

Would this work ss a mod where All vehicles are tagged and upgraded to setFeatureType 2?  I'd be happy to test out on my 1080 rig at 12k VD. 

 

Edit: not clever enough to make a mod myself! 

[Grumpy Old Man 3546]

Just put this in the init.sqf of your mission.

 

Cheers

[petek 62]

3 hours ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

 

I doubt this worked at all.

For a temporary solution run this:

_vehicles = ["B_MBT_01_arty_F"];//vehicle classes that should be visible
_loop = _vehicles spawn {
	params ["_vehicles"];
	while {true} do {
	
		{
		if (typeOf _x isKindof "Air" OR typeof _x in _vehicles) then {_x setFeatureType 2};
		} forEach vehicles;

	sleep 10;
	};
};

Will make every air vehicle visible at terrain view distance, also can add other vehicle class names into the vehicle array, they will be treated the same.

 

Cheers

Cheers Grumpy Old Man

I was pretty suprised to find my hack worked too TBH;-)

 

Any ideas of if/how this could be applied to an entire map - not just placed vehicles and objects but the map itself? I'm trying to "undo" the optimisation as for me flying over terrain and having most objects pop up when I'm immediately over them is a awful. It seems the optimisation that Reyhard mentioned was introduced takes a lot away from controlling performance based on the traditional player-controlled settings (mostly view distance and visual effects settings) with something which doesn't scale on lower end systems. To find I could place just one helo and one vehicle on the empty VR map and still have this pop up at 1.5 km surprised me. This setFeatureType 2 will be great for placed objects but hoping I can find a work around for the maps. I assume that the optimisation is engine based so my fear is I'm stuck with it - which considering before optimisation the game was perfectly enjoyable at 3-4 km for view and object distance for Air vehicle is disappointing to say the least. Really wish there had been a way to have the player select to apply the optimisation or not (like any other setting)

 

Thanks again for any help or suggestions - can I just ask at what view distance does your PC have render objects without the setFeatureType 2 being used?

The radar (small) building at the South of Stratis airfield for me appears at 1.6 km when approached slowly by helo. With setFeatureType 2 it's around twice this (both with non-zoomed view) as a "placed" object.

 

cheers

 

 

[Greenfist 1863]

6 minutes ago, petek said:

Any ideas of if/how this could be applied to an entire map

Not possible:

"The limit is 500 map/static objects and 200 dynamic objects including config features and auto features (flying helicopters, airplanes)."

 

[Grumpy Old Man 3546]

Like greenfist said. You'd hit that limit really fast.

Might as well turn up object view distance.

 

Cheers

 

[Flax 397]

50 minutes ago, Greenfist said:

Not possible:

"The limit is 500 map/static objects and 200 dynamic objects including config features and auto features (flying helicopters, airplanes)."

 

 

 

I suppose you could write something to find the 200 closest vehicles every few seconds and set them to always visible then set everything else to not always visible. Limit it to vehicles so it doesn't include people.

[petek 62]

1 hour ago, Greenfist said:

Not possible:

"The limit is 500 map/static objects and 200 dynamic objects including config features and auto features (flying helicopters, airplanes)."

 

That's what I feared.

I guess it would have to be an engine thing rather than a script command.

For me the optimisation Reyhard mentioned (and if it is the cause of this reduced distance rendering at 1x magnification) has messed up playing scenarios that were perfectly enjoyable and playable before this. Joris did warn in https://dev.arma3.com/post/sitrep-00157

" But there are risks also. It may be that one type of scene now works better, while another runs worse. Or various kinds of visual glitching may have become more prominent. " 

 

1 hour ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

Like greenfist said. You'd hit that limit really fast.

Might as well turn up object view distance.

 

Cheers

 

That's the problem - this optimisation seems to be unaffected by object view distance. Set it to 12km on a map with no other entities and most of terrain/buildings etc... only pop up at 1.5km or so at 1x magnification - which for an object as large as "tent hanger" , for example, seems very wrong. Flying the jets at speed for me essentially has no rendered buildings until right on top of them. It's why I'm curious to hear how it is for people with high end systems - I will buy a new machine in the next 6 months or so (..and 'cos I'm sad upgrading is usually for Arma!;-)) I personally wish it was still controlled by object view distance - your frame rate is bad - lower it til it's accepable for you. Now I have no choice - a lot of map objects will only render at 1.5km approx unless zoomed.

 

I really wish I'd kept an old version of Arma3 before this was introduced - it really has ruined some aspects of the game for me. I'm assuming addressing some of these limitations is why setFeatureType 2 has been introduced but it won't fix the terrain.

 

Thanks for the replies guys - wish it was better news ;-(