Turkey Coup D'Etat

[ProfTournesol 956]

I must say it's quite puzzling.

[nodunit 397]

Does anyone know wether or not the F-16 that was buzzing about was loyalist or part of the coup?  I've heard reports of it belonging to loyalists but if so then it begs the question of why there was a fighter in the air before this went down.
How did the tanks supposedly surround parliment yet achieve so little, was the bomb that went off triggered via ground or was it by air, if so then that F-16 could have been the only one to deploy it cause a helicopter much less a cobra could not carry a bomb and surely a TOW wouldn't do THAT much damage.

Then there were the reports of coup leaders being arrested, another helicopter transporting coup leaders was shot down, the whole thing doesn't make any sense...  if the military were genuinely trying to stage a coup why announce it so early, why leave TV stations up and not jam cell phone towers and other forms of communication. 
Then we have the rallying of the populace...we could say the military didn't want civilians getting hurt and thus ordered the curfew but here we have a case of citizens not in support or erdogan or simply too frightened, held up indoors while he instructs his supporters to go onto the streets and rally.

The soldiers in the tanks didn't appear to be acting in a threatening manner, there were instances of firing the copula MG's into the air in an attempt to ward off civies and I believe one was warned to stay back but as they approached the tanks, the soldiers did not take action, even while some were disarmed.   The only ones that appeared to be getting violent were some ground troops and the attack helicopter which can be seen firing towards the ground.  

Lastly why did the coup occur in the city if enemy #1 was government and particularly erdogan, why then stage a coup when he is out of the city and on a holiday?

[oxmox 73]

Today I did watch parts of a discussion on german TV (AnneWill) and it was said ,

the regular turkish soldier thought it would be a military excercise and therfore they did give up quickly.

 

 

*Honestly, overall there are quiete scarce  informations so far when it comes to more details.

[ProfTournesol 956]

(BBC) Turkey coup: 15,200 education staff suspended

 

That purge is out of control.

[krycek 349]

Yeah at this stage he's in full Stalin mode,kinda stupid though if you wanted the world to believe there was indeed a coup.Doubt he'll get the death penalty reinstated but I'm willing to bet many of these "enemies of the state" won't be alive for long.

Of course US and Europe will keep yammering "but Turkey must respect democracy yadda yadda..."

[Tonci87 163]

How can anybopdy still be in favour of him after seeing what he is doing here.....

[JdB 151]

How can anybopdy still be in favour of him after seeing what he is doing here.....

Quite simple really, they value the quran more than constitutions and laws. Not suited for being in the EU, it's nationals not suited for living in Europe.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Turkey follows the same route as Russia.

 

A (more or less) short majority is ready to get stability, 'traditional' Islamic values (read 'Orthodox Church values' for Russia) and a wishful dream of 'The Ottoman Empire strikes back' (read 'The Russian/Soviet Empire/Union' for Russia), at the expense of individual rights, freedom of speech, democratic and judiciary control over the governement, countervailing powers such as a free press and an autonomous judiciary system, an anti corruption system (the 'Gulen affair' have roots into high corruption of Erdogan system), and of course secularity, etc.

 

Oh, and manipulating the Constitution to stay in power as long as possible.

 

Stability over Liberty, to sum it up.

[JdB 151]

Stability over Liberty, to sum it up.

According to some this stability fuelled by an economic boom never existed in the first place. Seems they artificially inflated their economy:

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2016/02/turkey-economic-success-dramatically-changed.html

[IndeedPete 1038]

Turkey follows the same route as Russia.

 

A (more or less) short majority is ready to get stability, 'traditional' Islamic values (read 'Orthodox Church values' for Russia) and a wishful dream of 'The Ottoman Empire strikes back' (read 'The Russian/Soviet Empire/Union' for Russia), at the expense of individual rights, freedom of speech, democratic and judiciary control over the governement, countervailing powers such as a free press and an autonomous judiciary system, an anti corruption system (the 'Gulen affair' have roots into high corruption of Erdogan system), and of course secularity, etc.

 

Oh, and manipulating the Constitution to stay in power as long as possible.

 

Stability over Liberty, to sum it up.

 

And that is why a part of me doesn't feel sorry for them at all. They've had numerous chances to get rid of Erdogan, or at least limit his power, yet they didn't do that. (I'm aware of the fact that on the last election paramilitaries "guarded" broadcasting stations and voting centres, especially in the Kurdish regions, and probably also "assisted" the locals with some advice on who to vote for.) The other part of me feels sorry for the people who oppose Erdogan and his backwards agenda who now face prison sentences for saying or writing the "wrong" things.

[pedeathtrian 99]

Turkey follows the same route as Russia.

 

A (more or less) short majority is ready to get stability, 'traditional' Islamic values (read 'Orthodox Church values' for Russia) and a wishful dream of 'The Ottoman Empire strikes back' (read 'The Russian/Soviet Empire/Union' for Russia), at the expense of individual rights, freedom of speech, democratic and judiciary control over the governement, countervailing powers such as a free press and an autonomous judiciary system, an anti corruption system (the 'Gulen affair' have roots into high corruption of Erdogan system), and of course secularity, etc.

 

Oh, and manipulating the Constitution to stay in power as long as possible.

 

Stability over Liberty, to sum it up.

 

First, Orthodox Church is not even close to even challenge secular state in Russia, while in Turkey

they value the quran more than constitutions and laws.

Thanks to communists, they made vast amount of russians atheists.

 

Second, Orthodox Church experiences centrifugal forces in its area. Balkans, Ukraine, Georgia, Armenia... will not (and don't want to) fall back under the Moscow influence as Third Rome, center of influence of orthodox branch of christianity as it (to some extent) was in the times of Russian Empire. On the other side, islamic movements nowadays are more likely to be centripetal (where is center is another story though).

 

Third, there's no communism on post-USSR space. There can't be any more Soviet Union. Eurasian Union is a joke, one can't unite anything having no ideology at all. One can only annex by occasion.

The strongest ideology in most of former soviet republics is "convert your position into property", and one can't build or rebuild on this base.

The Great Turan has more chances really.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think either of routes can lead to something good, however I consider them different.

I agree on other points, they seem to be similar.

[spooky lynx 73]

This smells like a Turkish version of the Reichstag fire if you ask me....

 

I'd say it's more like 20 July plot.

[jw custom 56]

The soldiers in the tanks didn't appear to be acting in a threatening manner

 

Define threatening, does driving over people count as threatening? :P

[zooloo75 834]

Define threatening, does driving over people count as threatening? :P

 

Could also be negligence. I did see a video where a jeep was being shot at by a helicopter's cannon. Was the helicopter part of the coup (given that it was the same helicopter that is seen in more popular videos)? None of this seems right.

[jw custom 56]

Saw quite a few people who was run over by tanks, one was a 'headshot' :o

 

If it was negligence they must be shitty drivers :lol:

 

But i surely agree, things seems very odd :blink:

[ProfTournesol 956]

The most efficient and well organized was the anti-coup crowd.

[zooloo75 834]

The most efficient and well organized was the anti-coup crowd.

 

IIRC, I saw a headline which mentioned that Erdogan knew about the coup plan in advance.

[Tonci87 163]

The aftermath of that "coup" is quite shocking.

 

So far:

 

 

Teachers: 21'000 suspended

People at the ministry of education: 21'783 suspended

Police: 7'899 suspended

Soldiers, Judges, State prosecutors: 6000 arrested

Judges, State prosecutors: 2700 dismissed

University Deans: 1577 dismissed

People at the ministry of finance: 1500 suspended

Gendarmerie and Coastalguard: 1000 suspended

Radio- and TV stations: 500 Broadcasting permissions revoked

People at the ministry for religious affairs: 492 dismissed

Ministry of Familiy and social care: 399 suspended

Office of the prime minister: 257 dismissed

Ministry of youth and sports: 249 dismissed

Admirals and Generals: 103 arrested

National intelligence: 100 suspended

Provincial Inspektors: 52 suspended

Gouverneurs: 30 suspended

People who acted "unlawful" on social media: 7 arrested

Members of the high council of justice: 5 dismissed

Employees at the Universities: They are not allowed to travel

Total: 65'649 People affected

[ProfTournesol 956]

(BBC) Turkey coup attempt: 'Arrest warrants issued' for journalists

 

So, how can they explain they defend democracy by arresting journalists ?

[IndeedPete 1038]

It gets even worse, reports of torture and abuse of the detained citizens: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thousands-turkey-coup-prisoners-raped-8485304

[zooloo75 834]

I talked with someone from Turkey to get their perspective on the coup. Turkey is a predominantly Muslim country (for those who don't know, I guess). They love Erdogan as their leader. The Turks are fighting ISIS and have so far killed ~3000 of them. Turkey houses millions of refugees. The Turks believe the US and Gulen is behind the coup. They want the US to send Gulen back to Turkey so they can "deal" with him (they really hate Gulen -- the person I talked with called him ugly, lol); there were also a mention about someone named "John F. Campbell". The Turks hate our government because we're causing the mess in the Middle East with ISIS, destabilizing the region. The Turks are training the Peshmerga Kurds to help fight ISIS. The Turks hate Hillary, they mostly support Trump, some think he's racist, but they see that from our media, the same media whom is pro-Hillary.

The US isn't seriously trying to destroy ISIS, we could easily wipe out those goat fuckers (the Turk I was talking to actually used that term, lol). The US is trying to make Turkey weaker by allowing ISIS to grow stronger to further the destabilization of the Middle East, maybe to further the New World Order agenda set in by Bush Sr. From their perspective, the US attacked them. They hate America (not Americans) -- and to be fair, a lot of Americans hate the corrupt American leadership as well. The Turks have a lot of pride in their country and their leader, Erdogan. They describe themselves as brave and strong against the coup -- the civilians went out and attacked the coup soldiers, climbed on tanks, etc.

 

Just thought I'd share this useful perspective that I got from an actual Turk. Western media is absolute shit when it comes to reporting the facts. It's all propaganda.

[JdB 151]

Western media is absolute shit when it comes to reporting the facts. It's all propaganda.

About half of this is Turkish propaganda :P

Like "training the Peshmerga Kurds", I assume the person you spoke to needs some lessons in English since the term for what Turkey does is "bombing", not "training".

[ProfTournesol 956]

 

The Turks are fighting ISIS and have so far killed ~3000 of them.

 

 

This one is funny. All this shows how Erdogan brainwashing machine is working 100%, now that there isn't any counter power anymore. What Erdogan fears the most, is a free independant Kurdish country. If Turkey would have closed its borders with Syria from the beginning, instead of letting thousands of oil trucks cross its border to finance IS, IS would have starved very quickly.

 

But i'm confident that educated people in Turkey will finally manage to do something to prevent their country from definitely being a muslim brotherhood dictatorship.

[IndeedPete 1038]

About half of this is Turkish propaganda :P

Like "training the Peshmerga Kurds", I assume the person you spoke to needs some lessons in English since the term for what Turkey does is "bombing", not "training".

 

No, that is actually correct. I know it's bizzare but Turkish and Kurdish (Iraq) forces fight side by side in Iraq. It's just the Turkish Kurds they attack mostly.

[Tonci87 163]

 

I talked with someone from Turkey to get their perspective on the coup. Turkey is a predominantly Muslim country (for those who don't know, I guess). They love Erdogan as their leader. The Turks are fighting ISIS and have so far killed ~3000 of them. Turkey houses millions of refugees. The Turks believe the US and Gulen is behind the coup. They want the US to send Gulen back to Turkey so they can "deal" with him (they really hate Gulen -- the person I talked with called him ugly, lol); there were also a mention about someone named "John F. Campbell". The Turks hate our government because we're causing the mess in the Middle East with ISIS, destabilizing the region. The Turks are training the Peshmerga Kurds to help fight ISIS. The Turks hate Hillary, they mostly support Trump, some think he's racist, but they see that from our media, the same media whom is pro-Hillary.

The US isn't seriously trying to destroy ISIS, we could easily wipe out those goat fuckers (the Turk I was talking to actually used that term, lol). The US is trying to make Turkey weaker by allowing ISIS to grow stronger to further the destabilization of the Middle East, maybe to further the New World Order agenda set in by Bush Sr. From their perspective, the US attacked them. They hate America (not Americans) -- and to be fair, a lot of Americans hate the corrupt American leadership as well. The Turks have a lot of pride in their country and their leader, Erdogan. They describe themselves as brave and strong against the coup -- the civilians went out and attacked the coup soldiers, climbed on tanks, etc.

 

Just thought I'd share this useful perspective that I got from an actual Turk. Western media is absolute shit when it comes to reporting the facts. It's all propaganda.

 

 

 

Well, you see, I live in Germany, we have many Turkish people here, and naturally I know a lot of them, and work with some. They are pretty divided. Some (funnily enough those who watch mostly Turkish media) really like Erdogan and think basically the same you decribe there. Other hate him with a passion.

 

It is a pretty good picture of the very fragmented Turkish society.

 

By the way, Erdogan is planing to make the military and secret service swear loyalty to him directly, not to the Turkish state.....

 

I think I know where this is going.....