Tanoa Lite - a possibility or a total No-Go?

[sic-disaster 311]

It's not like people don't have an absolute ton of missions, modes and maps to play on without Tanoa, so I vote no. This sense of entitlement to free stuff (especially after all the free feature updates ArmA 3 has had over it's lifetime) needs to end. Tanoa is an investment of years of development. Basically all the features that would warrant an expansion in other games have been added for free over the past. You can live without Tanoa if you don't want to pay money for it.

[ineptaphid 6413]

It's not like people don't have an absolute ton of missions, modes and maps to play on without Tanoa, so I vote no. This sense of entitlement to free stuff (especially after all the free feature updates ArmA 3 has had over it's lifetime) needs to end. Tanoa is an investment of years of development. Basically all the features that would warrant an expansion in other games have been added for free over the past. You can live without Tanoa if you don't want to pay money for it.

Exactly.Thats what makes arma such amazing value for money. Want new content?Just open the workshop and there will be decent new missions pretty much every day. Or if they are not what you are looking for, you can make your own fun missions.

 

I recently took a quick break from arma to play through the last two Medal of Honour games, and it took a lot of getting used to to realise just how confined and restricting that model of game is again. There is a campaign, a couple of random multiplayer modes...and thats it.No new content unless it is designed by the Devs.Which all stops a couple of months after release usually.

 

Compare that to Arma. Look at where it was in Alpha compared to now-the amount of free new stuff is just incredible aside from the thousands of user made missions and mods.

[teabagginpeople 398]

I want Tanoa free.. Nah.

Bought myself a copy gifted a copy. Will probably gift another . Consider myself a patron of the arts so I do. I want all the money I spent on it to go to a cake for Dusa. Or maybe a few cold brews for the team. I hear the kindom come deliverance beer is quite tastey.

[BL4DE 91]

I will buy Apex most likely and so will a lot of other people. I don't preorder out of principle :P

But there should be lite version. So if people dont have the Apex let them play on the island. Dont let them use the Apex weapons or vehicles just like with Marksmen and Helicopter DLCs. Don't give them campaign. Just let them play on the new island with old assets on multiplayer.

 

Otherwise you will split the multiplayer like it was in Arma 2: Operation Arrowhead. Half the servers will run base Arma 3 the other half will include Tanoe. Also private servers which will run Tanoe will suffer lower player count cause not everyone might buy the Apex.

 

The system is already in place with the way how the previous DLCs deal with this. Sure you could also only provide low res island thats also already in place.

 

So all in all please make lite Apex or you will harm the multiplayer.

 

Look how Tripwire Interactive dealt with this in Rising Storm expansion for Red Orchestra 2. They let people play only the rilfeman class but otherwise they had full acess to all the maps in multiplayer.

Please stop saying EA does this or Activision does that.

[PuFu 4599]

I will buy Apex most likely and so will a lot of other people. I don't preorder out of principle :P

But there should be lite version. So if people dont have the Apex let them play on the island. Dont let them use the Apex weapons or vehicles just like with Marksmen and Helicopter DLCs. Don't give them campaign. Just let them play on the new island with old assets on multiplayer.

 

Otherwise you will split the multiplayer like it was in Arma 2: Operation Arrowhead. Half the servers will run base Arma 3 the other half will include Tanoe. Also private servers which will run Tanoe will suffer lower player count cause not everyone might buy the Apex.

 

The system is already in place with the way how the previous DLCs deal with this. Sure you could also only provide low res island thats also already in place.

 

So all in all please make lite Apex or you will harm the multiplayer.

 

Look how Tripwire Interactive dealt with this in Rising Storm expansion for Red Orchestra 2. They let people play only the rilfeman class but otherwise they had full acess to all the maps in multiplayer.

Please stop saying EA does this or Activision does that.

good grief....unlike any of the games and developers you mentioned, A3 has a huge modding scene, which produces a lot of content, from weapons to islands. You don't want or cannot bear to ask your mommy some more cash for video games, no problem, use a community made one..

 

BI cannot limit it like Tripwire does it, because it doesn't control the missions and the gameplay. They have nothing to gain from releasing the island as "lite" version, quite the contrary, and they have explained why lite didn't actually worked (in short, because reducing the detail of textures and poly count makes the assets and developers of said assets look dull).

 

Do understand than the vast majority of the resources available for Apex went into the island, the new tech because of the said island (vis improvements etc which everyone gets for free anyways)

[ineptaphid 6413]

It really is a silly argument that one more Island will "split" the community.How many Islands are there available for Arma3? 20? 30? I really dont think one more will make a difference...

 

We have to also remember  that the online public server aspect is just one small part of the Arma community, and it is really the only one that would be "split". All the other play styles-SP, Coop, Squads and units and clans -they will all decide whether to get it or not and no one will be left out.

[BL4DE 91]

It really is a silly argument that one more Island will "split" the community.How many Islands are there available for Arma3? 20? 30? I really dont think one more will make a difference...

 

I remember it diffrently with Takistan. It was quite a split

Most of the custom islands are either ugly or unoptimised. It became clear to me that BI islands are better balanced between looks and performance. Then there are visual glitches, like messed up water. Super dark  nights and glitchy illumination... Been playing on UO for a while. All the time something breaks. Each update half the missions on the server break. Either mod or game update causes this. Then after visual update again most night missions without nvgs got borked. Then ACRE keeps breaking. It's always something with the mods. The performance impact and breakage, regressions and so on. Not point of this Topic but still just saying that community maps aren't really any better than BIS maps. People tend to gravitate towards quality vanilla content especially maps over mod content but it sort of changed with A3 futuristic weapons and vehicles.

[PuFu 4599]

I remember it diffrently with Takistan. It was quite a split

main reason being the fact that OA was standalone

[BL4DE 91]

So did devs mention anything about this? How will Apex work if it won't be Standalone? It seems a lot like OA. New map, new weapons and vehicles, new campaign? I assumed they are taking same approach? Or will it act like an addon and won't let you join the server without @APEX ?

[chortles 263]

So did devs mention anything about this? How will Apex work if it won't be Standalone? It seems a lot like OA. New map, new weapons and vehicles, new campaign? I assumed they are taking same approach? Or will it act like an addon and won't let you join the server without @APEX ?

If the mission is set on Tanoa or a terrain that uses Tanoa terrain/scenery assets then yes it'll be akin to an addon/mod dependency, while presumably every player of the co-op campaign must have Apex, and otherwise the rest of the DLC works as the rest of the Arma 3 DLCs do (notifications, inability to pick up weapons or enter crew seats without custom scripting, and exemption from these in Virtual Arsenal).

[BadHabitz 235]

It really is a silly argument that one more Island will "split" the community.How many Islands are there available for Arma3? 20? 30? I really dont think one more will make a difference...

 

To be fair, Tanoa will be the only one out of those thirty that you have to specifically pay for. The others you received when you bought the game or can be downloaded for free. All future maps created using Tanoa assets will now also be segregated on the other side of that pay wall.

[kylania 568]

To be fair, Tanoa will be the only one out of those thirty that you have to specifically pay for. The others you received when you bought the game or can be downloaded for free. All future maps created using Tanoa assets will now also be segregated on the other side of that pay wall.

 

It's $28.  Everyone has wasted more than $28 worth of time complaining about it.  Just get the DLC or don't.  CoD is $60, Battlefield 1 is $80, Overwatch is $60, Doom is $60, DaZ is $35, Killing Floor 2 is $20, GTA V is $60.  $28 is the paper mache of paywalls.

[PuFu 4599]

So did devs mention anything about this? How will Apex work if it won't be Standalone? It seems a lot like OA. New map, new weapons and vehicles, new campaign? I assumed they are taking same approach? Or will it act like an addon and won't let you join the server without @APEX ?

just like OFP expansions worked. It is very similar to DLCs. OA was one of a kind since you could buy it and use it by itself. Tanoa works like and addon yes.

 

All future maps created using Tanoa assets will now also be segregated on the other side of that pay wall.

i doubt that will happen anytime soon, due to ebo files

[road runner 4344]

It's $28.  Everyone has wasted more than $28 worth of time complaining about it.  Just get the DLC or don't.  CoD is $60, Battlefield 1 is $80, Overwatch is $60, Doom is $60, DaZ is $35, Killing Floor 2 is $20, GTA V is $60.  $28 is the paper mache of paywalls.

A night on the piss with friends will cost you 5 times that, taking the kids to MacDonalds will cost you about the same, buying your wife flowers and getting back in her good books because you've spent more time modding and gaming with internet friends will cost a shit load more than all of these games together!! :D

[Wiki 1558]

Nope.

Apex is not such expensive.

People who really want to enjoy Tanoa and support BIS should buy it.

Otherwise, they won't play it.

[ineptaphid 6413]

Yeah...I think we can end this discussion to be honest. there is nothing left to say really. Basically nobody is in favour of a lite tanoa, the consensus is the price is fine for what is contained in APEX..I think we can leave it at that?

[Alex150201 894]

Yeah...I think we can end this discussion to be honest. there is nothing left to say really. Basically nobody is in favour of a lite tanoa, the consensus is the price is fine for what is contained in APEX..I think we can leave it at that?

Oh mate I am a few of the people that bought Apex the day it was released but also think there should be a lite version of tanoa.

[brightcandle 114]

Apex is no operation arrowhead, its no where near as compelling as a package. Tanoa runs pretty poorly and being mostly jungle with non enterable buildings is a big terrain but a one trick pony in the area where Arma does the worst with its AI. The AI has a big advantage with spotting in the forests and in tanoa that advantage is amped up to 11, we have tried dynamically reducing their spotting speed and distance to as little as 0.01 skill but it still doesn't even the field they still spot us first and due to the short ranges the accuracy means they kill fast.

 

Combine that with some meh weapons where the animation quality isn't that fantastic and mods do more variety and better quality and futuristic vehicles we just don't care about and  APEX as a release isn't going to be the big thing that every community adopts. Its definitely optional and so a light version might be a good idea if they want it played more. I for one am underwhelmed with it.

[Alex150201 894]

Apex is no operation arrowhead, its no where near as compelling as a package. Tanoa runs pretty poorly and being mostly jungle with non enterable buildings is a big terrain but a one trick pony in the area where Arma does the worst with its AI. The AI has a big advantage with spotting in the forests and in tanoa that advantage is amped up to 11, we have tried dynamically reducing their spotting speed and distance to as little as 0.01 skill but it still doesn't even the field they still spot us first and due to the short ranges the accuracy means they kill fast.

 

Combine that with some meh weapons where the animation quality isn't that fantastic and mods do more variety and better quality and futuristic vehicles we just don't care about and  APEX as a release isn't going to be the big thing that every community adopts. Its definitely optional and so a light version might be a good idea if they want it played more. I for one am underwhelmed with it.

Okay you are completely on the other side here. For me Tanoa runs beautifully on Ultra graphics at 3k view distance and 2.5k object distance while still maintaining 70fps and yes during a battle too not on an empty map. The AI is the AI you can't do anything about. The weapons looks beautiful and so do the reload animations especially the SAW because that's how you reload a SAW in real life. The vehicles being futuristic doesn't put them in the "Bad Quality" tab. The vehicles looks amazing in my opinion and the VTOLs were a nice surprise to me. I like the idea of the weapons being available in the arsenal just like the previous DLCs but Tanoa should have a lite version.

[PuFu 4599]

Oh mate I am a few of the people that bought Apex the day it was released but also think there should be a lite version of tanoa.

i still don't get it:

1. what would be the reason for such a 'free' version? any other than "splitting community" which is a moot point

2. define "lite" as you see it being done

 

Apex is no operation arrowhead, its no where near as compelling as a package. Tanoa runs pretty poorly and being mostly jungle with non enterable buildings is a big terrain but a one trick pony in the area where Arma does the worst with its AI. The AI has a big advantage with spotting in the forests and in tanoa that advantage is amped up to 11, we have tried dynamically reducing their spotting speed and distance to as little as 0.01 skill but it still doesn't even the field they still spot us first and due to the short ranges the accuracy means they kill fast.

 

Combine that with some meh weapons where the animation quality isn't that fantastic and mods do more variety and better quality and futuristic vehicles we just don't care about and  APEX as a release isn't going to be the big thing that every community adopts. Its definitely optional and so a light version might be a good idea if they want it played more. I for one am underwhelmed with it.

of course it is optional. every game out there is, and so are the mods. I don't think BI wants it being played more just for the sake of played it, i think they wanna get payed for all the work they put into it

[Alex150201 894]

i still don't get it:

1. what would be the reason for such a 'free' version? any other than "splitting community" which is a moot point

2. define "lite" as you see it being done

 

In my opinion a lite version of Tanoa should have way lower textures and shouldn't be available in the editor but if a friend is playing on Tanoa King of the Hill for example you should be able to join him.

[R0adki11 3949]

In my opinion a lite version of Tanoa should have way lower textures and shouldn't be available in the editor but if a friend is playing on Tanoa King of the Hill for example you should be able to join him.

Sorry i have to disagree, i see no value in making an lite Version, the resources put into making one would be better spent on something else.

 

Apex is an expansion if you want to use it then buy it, nothing more simple than that. It was the same with OFP, OFP:Resistance came out and those that bought it got to use Nogova. Those that didn't, couldn't. Its quite plain and simple. 

[Alex150201 894]

Sorry i have to disagree, i see no value in making an lite Version, the resources put into making one would be better spent on something else.

 

Apex is an expansion if you want to use it then buy it, nothing more simple than that. It was the same with OFP, OFP:Resistance came out and those that bought it got to use Nogova. Those that didn't, couldn't. Its quite plain and simple. 

Well everyone has his own opinion and we can't really argue because it's bohemia's choice. But we all know that bohemia likes to communicate with their community which for me is top. That's why I love bohemia.

[PuFu 4599]

In my opinion a lite version of Tanoa should have way lower textures

BI already explained the reason why they do NOT want to go with lower textures, lower meshes approach anymore: very few actually get that this is done on purpose, most will say: ohh fuck this, why would i spend money on something that is in such a poor quality. It has happened before mind you.

I for one, as a 3d artist who spends a lot of time tweaking and making sure that my textures are realistic, that my meshes are accurate and that my shaders are correctly depicting the item i created, would consider a heresy to fuck that all up so some cheap "friend" of anothe bloke can get to dick about without buying a product...

would you buy a ferrari after a test drive if the car provided for test drive would be an uglier version, powered by a fiat 500 engine? wouldn't you simply say: fuck that shit, i'm gonna go with a lambo instead?

 

shouldn't be available in the editor 

that cannot be done, engine side

[Alex150201 894]

BI already explained the reason why they do NOT want to go with lower textures, lower meshes approach anymore: very few actually get that this is done on purpose, most will say: ohh fuck this, why would i spend money on something that is in such a poor quality. It has happened before mind you.

I for one, as a 3d artist who spends a lot of time tweaking and making sure that my textures are realistic, that my meshes are accurate and that my shaders are correctly depicting the item i created, would consider a heresy to fuck that all up so some cheap "friend" of anothe bloke can get to dick about without buying a product...

would you buy a ferrari after a test drive if the car provided for test drive would be an uglier version, powered by a fiat 500 engine? wouldn't you simply say: fuck that shit, i'm gonna go with a lambo instead?

 

that cannot be done, engine side

I can't reply anything but okay.