Iron Front in Arm3 LITE - preview versions

[Wiki 1558]

1 hour ago, .kju said:

@Wiki go ahead - you have the OK from Jaki 👍

Great thanks a lot!

[lexx 1391]

@.kju

Not sure why you are confused about this. As far as I can tell, these are all the same.

 

I mean, obviously you folks can do as you please, but IMO sometimes less is more. Especially as in this case the list could be cut down from 22 entries to 10 and nothing would be lost. If you want a driverless vehicle, you just spawn it accordingly. If you want an alternate texture, you set the vehicle appearance. Simple.

[madrussian 347]

About turret speeds, imho:  I like in principal what team is going for in term of realism, and appreciate all your efforts, etc.  However, from gameplay perspective here are two major drawbacks to slow turrets:

 

1. When player mans slowest turrets, it's super annoying and un-fun to try and traverse turret with the mouse.

2. By far most importantly:  In my experience the AI simply can't handle these (relatively) super-slow turret speeds.  When AI-crewed tanks are stationary, players can literally run circles around them with zero danger (to the point of things becoming quite silly).  And with slow turrets the AI is not nearly coordinated enough to move and shoot and the same time, and hardly ever gets a shot off.  Overall (speaking of all mods in general and again imo), fun factor for playing against AI-crewed tanks increases dramatically when turret speeds approach vanilla speeds.

 

I would much rather see either a compromise between standard turret speed of vanilla tank turrets with ultra-realistic turret speeds (maybe halfway between?  perhaps somewhat closer to vanilla speeds?)  -OR-  Two versions of each vehicle.  One version with faster turret speeds closer to vanilla (to give those AI a chance), and one version ultra-realistic (like now) for PVP.  [Of course having two versions of each vehicle would increase workload for team and increase aforementioned bloat in terms of number of vehicle types, so yes it's always a trade-off.]

[.kju 3245]

@lexx its about quick access. i will double check the trucks though. insignificant camo reskins should not be listed

 

@madrussian make sure to bind turret turning on the keyboard like in other tank sims

the turret speed allows tactical gameplay in the first place -  to outmaneuver heavy but slow tanks (also very relevant vs/with AI)

[Gunter Severloh 4067]

3 hours ago, lexx said:

If you want a driverless vehicle, you just spawn it accordingly.

Agree, you can basically put down a vehicle with the AI crew in it, and and yank him out and delete it, there is also that box at the bottom of the list where it says "place vehicles with crew"

if you uncheck that box then no crew will be in the vehicle when you place it.

3 hours ago, madrussian said:

1. When player mans slowest turrets, it's super annoying and un-fun to try and traverse turret with the mouse.

Use the number pad keys on your number pad to move the turret, 4 for left, 6 for right, and use your mouse for the elevation.

 

When im gunner and theres a tank say on my 2 oclock and my gun is pointing at my 9, i turn the gun but then tell the driver to move the tank so that the whole gun is facing the enemy at the 2,

from there all you need to do is adjust for accuracy, and distance.

So move the tank so the gun is facing the direction of the enemy, then move the gun, works like a charm and much faster too.

If you are the driver, and you have AI on the gun, then move the tank in the direction of the target so the AI gunner dont have far to turn, all he has to do is acquire the target from a small range.

[madrussian 347]

@.kju & @Gunter Severloh: Good tips, didn't know about bind turret turning on the keyboard, I think that will help a lot.  Also Gunter good strategies on command a tank with AI that you are also in.  Agree that it helps tremendously to be driver (or at least to directly control driver).  I still would like faster turret versions of vehicles far more than driverless version of vehicles, but anyway nice to know I can always mod something up.

 

Quick followup on the whole "missing voices" in the Radio Protocols thing I mentioned previously:

 

Again, I noticed that commanding US and UK soldiers to move should result in them speaking confirmation of order aloud and confirmation of arrival aloud (like with vanilla units, and like with Soviets and Germans), but that US and UK soldiers do not speak confirmations.  First off, curious - Supposing this was an easy thing to fix, would people want it fixed?  (Or do people prefer the more silent commanded soldiers?)

 

My latest related experiments, etc:

Spoiler

 

I made a quick test addon, raising the priority of all confirmations (including "RadioProtocolENG" >> "SentConfirmMove") from 300 to 1000 (to be in line with all the others) to see if that gets (radio-less) soldiers speaking their confirmations.  Unfortunately... this does not change anything.  Then I remembered a game bug I ran into while working on the squad command portion of my upcoming mission (which is voiced).  My issue was very similar (if not exact) to the one described here:

 

kbTell Requires Radio to Speak?

 

In summary, in this ArmA3 bug when speaking unit has no radio, KBTell is broken.  That is to say unit will move his mouth, but not speak aloud.  The author of that thread confirmed that KBTell worked (equally well with and without radio) in ArmA2, which he checked contemporaneously.  In my case this bug made me differentiate whether player has radio or not (as in this case player is the one speaking), and use KBTell in one case (radio present) and directSay in the other case (no radio present).  Now, I wonder if this KBTell bug is related to IFA3 American and British soldiers not speaking their confirmations.  I checked real quick and low and behold, (when speaking these "missing words") IFA3 US and UK units are moving their mouths, but are not audible!

 

[Also curious side-effect of the kbTell bug:  Those "missing words" which are spoken (mouth moving) but not heard on hosted server machine, are heard for other players in MP.  I know this because I'm always playing on a LAN with my dad in the same room.  I believe this is exactly how these missing IFA3 US and UK words work, based on listening to his machine while we played.  Could hear on every machine except the one that issued the speech command.]

 

 

On 4/4/2019 at 9:28 AM, .kju said:

@madrussian the IF radio protocol (GER and SOV) are based on A2 tech, the others A3 tech. in other words you are seeing the difference of the more complex A2 RP vs the simplified A3 one. thats about it

we are considering to port them to A3 but its fairly complex, means other missing words instead and potentially other issues

 

Perhaps we should be downgrading radio protocol (US and UK) to A2 tech, instead of upgrading (GER and SOV) to A3 tech.  Considering all the missing words due to (potential KBTell bug related to) lack of radios.  Curious your thoughts?  Also curious, would we even see any advantages upon upgrading it?

 

 

[.kju 3245]

@madrussian please make a phab task with all the details you uncovered on the RP.

 

upgrading to A3 one is not necessarily the way to go. however it needs analysis and what to do, if anything, with the A3 RPs we use

[.kju 3245]

Also driver less vehicles (DLC) are primarily for players (be it COOP or PvP), and for testing.

With AI only they dont even work. So can't see how they relate to turret speeds.

[madrussian 347]

@.kju

Sure thing, I wrote up US and UK "missing words" issue here:

When ordering player-led AI squad, US and UK soldier’s confirmations are not Audible (while Soviet and German AI confirmations are)

 

10 hours ago, .kju said:

Also driver less vehicles (DLC) are primarily for players (be it COOP or PvP), and for testing.

With AI only they dont even work.

Makes sense, good to know.  Btw- Thanks again for all your efforts!

 

[Gunter Severloh 4067]

Some other things i noticed with the tanks.

 

Tanks under your command while your in a tank yourself:

Vanilla arma3 tanks drive fine, and normal they go to where you tell them and wait basically at ready like their supposed too.

If you tell a crew member to disembark they do np, get back in, problem, they dont listen, they answer but then dont do anything.

 

IFA3 tanks idk wtf happened but tanks under your command if you tell them to go to a spot they will then decide to drive around at full speed, hitting everything,

each other and running into you while looking everywhere with their main cannon like their retarded and cant seem to figure out whats in their way.

 

Tell them to return to formation, what do they do, drive every which way, and in circles at .... full speed, they crash into each other, zig zag when you tell them to form a column or even a file.

When in combat these guys you have to tell them to go to a spot then give them the 1-6 to stop or they do their thing.

 

AI crew are also not listening to orders like vanilla when they are disembarked so i think theres something in the latest vanilla update that prevents the AI from responding or getting back into the tank.

Its so annoying to play with tanks now, forget commanding tanks they dont listen, drives you mad, i mean your literally babysitting them, and no matter what, they drive everywhere at full speed!

[Arcieri 2]

Hey, i played this mod a while back and recently got back into playing it again thanks to the update. However, is there a standalone fix out there for the  extreme recoil of the semi-automatic rifles?

[Vojtechsonik 34]

Any SP missions with new desert maps? I am not sure what to search for in workshop :-)

[.kju 3245]

@Vojtechsonik best join our discord and check the playable content channel

overall some game modes have been ported you can also play alone from what i know

[rowdied 44]

Turret speeds on some of the tanks are not correct.  Almost all the German tanks are slower than they were in real life and certain Allied ones as well . Unless you want to turn the German Turrets by hand then they are correct which the game seems to simulate now. I am not sure why this was changed again. You can try the Real Panzer Mod by RP Allan on steam. This should make all the tanks Allied and Axis the correct turning speed.

[.kju 3245]

@rowdied feel free to discuss this yet again with El Tyranos on our discord and present solid sources of battlefield realities and not fictional factory numbers

[rowdied 44]

@.kjuI guess 3rd time will be the charm? :)

 

Not sure what you mean by fictional factory numbers. If a tanks turret speed  in full rotation is 20 seconds as per factory specs why is it fictional? There are a lot of things that tankers on both sides did to their tanks that never followed the written manual, such as the load out of main cannon shells. Some tankers crammed more into the tank than was specified by the manual, and removed unnecessary equipment to make room for them.

I will plead my case again on discord....

Now, can we have tanks not always blowup A3 style? :)

[Gunter Severloh 4067]

On 4/6/2019 at 11:35 PM, Gunter Severloh said:

Tiger 1 Traverse speed

http://www.alanhamby.com/technical.shtml

Traverse - speed 25 to 60 seconds depending on engine speed.

 

2 hours ago, rowdied said:

Now, can we have tanks not always blowup A3 style? 🙂

I actually like how Iron front the game did it in terms of burning, and blowing up type damage and destruction of tanks.

      If you hit a tank in certain places and it was disabled, some thanks would just smoke

other tanks would be on fire in the turret, or in the hatches the tanks would be on fire in the back by the engine.

 

Then sometimes when you hit the tank just right the tanks turret would blow off (popped its top) with a huge explosion,

like this below:     

(Intro shows it from one of Major Mayhem's Campaign missions called Panther's Tale, was just me and 2 other guys that play in the coop group every sunday)

[.kju 3245]

by stabcon

 

 

Download
WW2 Wiki: Download

 

Changelog
WW2 Wiki: Changelog -_Preview_v35_-_2019-04-13

 

Getting back to our tradition of frequent updates you find a the next quality of life update to improve your play and gaming experience!

 

 

### Highlights ###

Community work overview

 

You can find recommended community work for the WW2 setting in our wiki finally:

WW2 Wiki: Recommended communit work

 

The list is still work in progress (especially mods). Anyhow we hope you take a few minutes to look for new toys and goodies, and can appreciate the excellent missions and mods made by many other community modders!

 

Let us know via discord please if you have further recommendations and PM kju if you want a wiki account to contribute. Enjoy all the great WW2 content available!

 

by stabcon

 

 

Gameplay

• Improved accuracy of Bren and BAR
• Made tank tracks 3 times more durable

 

 

Terrains

 

• ILS definitions for AI for Tobruk airfield thanks to Stardust!
• Updated Tobruk thanks to iron_excelsior!
  • Fixed several misplaced objects
  • Fixed outside SAT texture
  • Fixed Marcuca and Hariga locations
  • Fixed two normal maps sections
  • Changed prepared airfield for AI use

 

by stabcon

 

Objects

 

• Sign textures (Tobruk, El Alamein, Benouville) to HQ for better readability

 

by El Tyranos

 

Assets

 

• Polish Brigade beret
• Polish Brigade helmets
• New improved German SC bombs models thanks to Bax!
• Additional groups (for DAK, UK, US and Winter factions) thanks to Tiwaz1994!

 

by El Tyranos

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

For suggestions and issues please check out:

 

WW2 Wiki: Overview
WW2 Wiki: Issue_Reporting
WW2 Wiki: Class_Overview

 

Wanna have a chat or interested to assist us - join our discord server.

Enjoy!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Red or blue p.. oh wait - different movie

 

by iron_excelsior

 

 

For more official WIP media and excellent fan made media make sure follow our discord server.

[Gunter Severloh 4067]

11 minutes ago, .kju said:

Made tank tracks 3 times more durable

Thank you Kju and Team!

You just made IFA3 tanks more playable, now i can last longer in a fight, i hope 😄

 

You guys determine what the issue is with the AI tanks driving at full speed all the time and then in circles yet?

[.kju 3245]

@Gunter Severloh

unfortunately not yet. we tried some things but no go

 

if anyone has simple demo missions of this behavior - especially on native A3 terrains and not happening with A3 tanks, please share

[harveydent 40]

Really digging the built-in trenches in the terrains. Way better than the A2 days of above-ground trenches and foxholes lol

[Gunter Severloh 4067]

1 hour ago, .kju said:

if anyone has simple demo missions of this behavior - especially on native A3 terrains and not happening with A3 tanks, please share

Will throw one together tomorrow morning for ya.

Will test the IFA3, and vanilla A3 tanks on both vanilla maps and IFA3 maps, then give you a demo and small report on what i found.

[Gunter Severloh 4067]

Here is a test mission https://www.dropbox.com/s/1xjx3krlmwgf46a/IFA3_Tank Test.zip?dl=0

• Mission name:  IFA3_Tank_Test
• Mission is not pbo'd, included is full RPT from the test.

i took 1 squad of Panzer 4 H, and a squad of Nato tanks set them up parallel with each other with space in between of course.

The gave both 1 move waypoint, and a guard waypoint after that, waypoints are equal distances for both tank squads, so it looks like a race.

Waypoints were placed as is, i did not change any speed, behavior, or formation.

 

Mission is set on Altis, and i set them up in the Desert on the NE part of the map, so they have flat terrain, and you can see their tracks as well.

I have a soldier as a player on the side, basically when the mission starts just go to spectator and watch the tanks.

 

What your going to notice is the following:

1.  Both squads start moving straight, about halfway to the first waypoint, the PZ4H squad likes to zig zag, and move at full speed, they end up a bit ahead of the NATO tank squad.
2. Reaching the 1st waypoint, some of the pz4H tanks like to drive in a circle sometimes its random, other times 1 may sit facing the opposite direction
3. As they move to the guard waypoint they sometimes will maintain formation, but then break that and driving one direction for 50ft and then go back on course, vanilla nothing.
4. Guard waypoint reached, vanilla NATO tank squad sits, Pz4H squad drive in circles, squad leader seems to hold position, 2 outside tanks like to drive around, sometimes in circles.

================

Same test was done on Staszow, results were about the same.

At the start before i place the nato tank squad, i was squad leader of the Pz4H squad, on Altis map, i gave a direction to go via map click and gave the

order to change formation, now they do change formation, but they drive all over the place instead of maintaining cohesion, the worst is when you stop

in any formation and they do that.

 

At one point 1 tank flipped over on its top after hitting one of the others in the squad, that was just the one time out of 4 tests,

a 2nd time almost happened but they clipped each other, the tanks seem light.

 

So only tested with those 2 types of tanks.

===============

Reviewing the RPT, i seen the following lines, showed up on Altis and Staszow 3 times, something of concern:

10:38:56 ["system tanks f - init.sqf",[]]
10:38:56  Mission id: c1cb05cf8b531bce78b0e31caa6aeb00b09a0c63
10:38:56 Error in expression <0.7 * EXT_DRIVE_DIRT_VOLUME * DRIVE_DIRT_CONDI>
10:38:56   Error position: <EXT_DRIVE_DIRT_VOLUME * DRIVE_DIRT_CONDI>
10:38:56   Error Undefined variable in expression: ext_drive_dirt_volume
10:38:56 Error in expression <0.7 * EXT_DRIVE_DIRT_VOLUME * DRIVE_DIRT_CONDI>
10:38:56   Error position: <EXT_DRIVE_DIRT_VOLUME * DRIVE_DIRT_CONDI>
10:38:56   Error Undefined variable in expression: ext_drive_dirt_volume
10:38:56 Error in expression <0.7 * EXT_DRIVE_DIRT_VOLUME * DRIVE_DIRT_CONDI>
10:38:56   Error position: <EXT_DRIVE_DIRT_VOLUME * DRIVE_DIRT_CONDI>
10:38:56   Error Undefined variable in expression: ext_drive_dirt_volume
10:38:56 Error in expression <0.7 * EXT_DRIVE_DIRT_VOLUME * DRIVE_DIRT_CONDI>
10:38:56   Error position: <EXT_DRIVE_DIRT_VOLUME * DRIVE_DIRT_CONDI>
10:38:56   Error Undefined variable in expression: ext_drive_dirt_volume

Also noticed this, idk if this would effect the AI but just thought i'd point it out:

10:19:42 Duplicate HitPoint name 'HitTurret' in 'LIB_PzKpfwIV_H'
10:19:42 Duplicate HitPoint name 'HitGun' in 'LIB_PzKpfwIV_H'
10:19:42 Duplicate HitPoint name 'HitTurret' in 'LIB_PzKpfwIV_H'
10:19:42 Duplicate HitPoint name 'HitGun' in 'LIB_PzKpfwIV_H'
10:19:42 Duplicate HitPoint name 'HitTurret' in 'LIB_PzKpfwIV_H'
10:19:42 Duplicate HitPoint name 'HitGun' in 'LIB_PzKpfwIV_H'

Launched with Armasync, IFA3_AIO_Lite is the steam version, and only CUP Terrains_Core from Steam as well.

Hope that helps.

[.kju 3245]

 

[.kju 3245]

Videos of full session: