AI freaking out about dead bodys (fix requested)

[max1944 16]

Basically it is a good thing that the AI will notice dead bodys and destroyed vehicles but it will screw up many quests in the singleplayer campaign (or user created content ).

 

Example: In the side mission "Immobile" (a_skirmish01.stratis) the soldiers will see the dead bodys and freak out. They will leave their animations/patrol and switch to combat mode. That is not their intended behaviour and it will hamper the immersion.

 

this setBehavior "SAFE" does not solve the problem

this setBehavior "CARELESS" let them ignore the dead vehicles but it will also make them not react to the player.

 

The cause are destroyed cfgVehicles (dead soldiers & destroyed vehicles)

 

Bohemia, please fix this issue.  

[semiconductor 309]

Basically it is a good thing that the AI will notice dead bodys and destroyed vehicles but it will screw up many quests in the singleplayer campaign.

I don't think that this is a hudge problem, singleplayer campaign in Arma is basically a boot camp. Who cares if it breaks as long as new interesting features are being added to increase the immersion/improve the gameplay/simplify mission-making process of custom scenarios?

 

On a second thought, I think it would be great to have a scropt command that will allow mission-maker to disable such "advanced" reactions.

[max1944 16]

This is not Call of Duty or Battlefield. ArmA3 has a great campaign and there was put a lot of effort into it. The faulty AI would waste this effort.

 

New features are great, but if they have issues they have to be fixed. One can't just screw things up and go on. That is unacceptable. This isn't my first thread about bad AI behavior. There were issues before and they have been fixed.

 

 

singleplayer campaign in Arma is basically a boot camp. 

 

 

I have 899 hours played and not a single minute of that was multiplayer.

[Hate 232]

My favorite longstanding AI problem is the one where they all go prone inside the target building because a single shot was fired outside. A dozen heavily armed Russian soldiers laying on the ground, aiming down the sights at the doorways just six-twelve inches from their heads. Of course, this can be fixed with this setunitpose "UP"; but then they only stand. I wish there was a way (that I knew of) that AI could only stand and crouch.

[semiconductor 309]

This is not Call of Duty or Battlefield. ArmA3 has a great campaign and there was put a lot of effort into it. The faulty AI would waste this effort.

Exactly, it isnt CoD or Battlefield. Main campaign is not the reason why people keep buying Arma, it's the Editor and custom missions. In my opinion, a somewhat broken main campaign is an acceptable sacrifice for smarter AI.

 

I have 899 hours played and not a single minute of that was multiplayer.

I'm not talking about multiplayer, I'm talking about custom missions in general. Something tells me that none of us would have spent more than 60 hours in Arma if it hasn't got a whole lot of user-made missions.

[max1944 16]

Exactly, it isnt CoD or Battlefield. Main campaign is not the reason why people keep buying Arma, it's the Editor and custom missions. 

 

The issue affect's EVERY mission. Singleplayer / Showcases / Scenarios

 

Lets say I want to create a custom mission with lots of animations and waypoints. It will be ruined because the AI will freak out if the see a dead/destroyed soldier/vehicle.

I would like to have a command "ignore destroyed" that can be placed on a dead/destroyed cfgVehicle. With that I would fix the singleplayer campaign myself.

[semiconductor 309]

The issue will affect EVERY mission. Singleplayer / Showcases / Scenarios

Yeah, hopefully. I've made a base-infiltration type of mission mission around a year ago where I had to add a "Killed" event to each enemy unit and then spawn a server-side trigger on every dead body so I can simulate AI reaction to dead bodies. And I'm glad that now AI is smart enough to understand that if there is a dead body, then something really wrong is going on. I would love to have more control over their behaviour though.

 

AI will freak out if the see a dead/destroyed soldier/vehicle.

Who would have thought, right?! I mean, IRL nobody gives a damn about dead bodies lying around, especially patrols. Why on earth a patrol (i.e. a unit that searches for enemy) would freak out when it sees a signs of enemy activity in a form of dead bodies? That's completely illogical and breaks the immersion. /s

 

Lets say I want to create a custom mission with lots of animations and waypoints.

Don't you think that if you're making mission that kinda contradicts normal human behaviour then you're doing something wrong? :)

Anyway, you can use the exit condition of the ambientAnim function to prevent units form leaving animation and the waypoints aren't magically disappearing the second group enters combat state, they will still proceed on them later. You can also just remove dead bodies via script.

[max1944 16]

Example: side mission "Immobile" from the campaign (but this could be in any mission).  

 

4 hostile AAF soldiers patrol a ambushed Hunter with two dead nato soldiers (setDamage 1). Three of the AAF soldiers have a animation and one has waypoints. Instead of their intended behaviour they go into combat mode. That is weird behaviour and because of that a "ignore destroyed" command is needed.

[becubed 24]

My favorite longstanding AI problem is the one where they all go prone inside the target building because a single shot was fired outside. A dozen heavily armed Russian soldiers laying on the ground, aiming down the sights at the doorways just six-twelve inches from their heads. Of course, this can be fixed with this setunitpose "UP"; but then they only stand. I wish there was a way (that I knew of) that AI could only stand and crouch.

 

Hate, if you can script you can do something like this, it's based off a posting i found several years ago by someone called Kempco.

 

Create an array of the animations that the unit uses for going prone, these ones are the ones I found in Iron Front which was based on Arma2.

//---Animation names for going prone
SKNK_Prevent_Prone = [
"AmovPercMstpSlowWrflDnon_AmovPpneMstpSrasWrflDnon ",
"AmovPercMstpSrasWrflDnon_AmovPpneMstpSrasWrflDnon ",
"amovppnemstpsraswrfldnon",
"AmovPknlMstpSrasWrflDnon_AmovPpneMstpSrasWrflDnon "
];

Then add an event handler to the unit

 _unit addEventHandler ["AnimChanged",{
      _unit = _this select 0;
      _anim = _this select 1;
      _anim_Restricted = _anim in SKNK_Prevent_Prone;
      if ((_anim_Restricted) OR (unitPos _unit == "down")) then {_unit setunitPos "middle"};}];

This interupts the going to prone and changes it to kneeling, or it does in Arma2, I haven't tried it in Arma3.

[chrisb 196]

Main campaign is not the reason why people keep buying Arma, it's the Editor and custom missions

 

This is exactly where this series excels itself. The all powerful and wonderful 'Editor'.

 

I don't play the BI campaigns or other user made ones, so can't comment on them. Its for my own SP, but also and mainly, the group I play with, for that ongoing war-gaming world that I play the series. There is so much you can do in this game all because of the Editor. If your playing, just for the supplied campaigns, then once they're done, your moving on. Then your missing out 'big time' on the Arma experience.

 

I believe fully militarised terrains is where this series really excels. Ongoing war-gaming is great, but for that you need really decent AI, almost autonomous AI, to be honest. One that the player is willing to wait for and not try to rush through.

 

Regards reacting to dead bodies, well I have never played Arma where the AI don't react, in a decent way, to dead bodies, recent wrecks etc, I've sort of always had it via one mod or other (or mix). If vanilla are getting this done in a proper way now, after how many years... Then that's a good thing finally.

The problem they have is the after affects of finding a dead body or wrecked vehicle, if the AI respond in a realistic fashion. That is where the important part comes in. An AI that will do something about the situation that makes sense and not just hit the ground.

They need to be able to radio in for anything they need (if available), to alert other groups, HQ etc. Or, act independently if they need to, if communication with others in their faction is restricted for some reason.

If they can do that, then your getting into good 'AI mod' territory. I just can't see that in vanilla to be honest. Partly because it can become heavy on cpu resources, slow down the game for the average system etc. So you need compromises for the vanilla game. Then leave players that want that 'extra' realistic behaviour, to mod it to what they want or need. Based, of course, on the systems they're running. AI is the most important thing for our group, we play against it a lot, so it has to be a modded advanced AI, to be able to cover what is needed.

 

But as with everything, if players are worried that AI finding a dead body is a problem, and that it may slow the campaign down, then really your playing the wrong game. The whole idea is this series is slow, methodical, needs time. I'm not saying you can't play in a faster way, but its not as rewarding as a slower paced more tactical and realistic game. The type of play that can be had, if your willing to put the time into the game. But I do appreciated not everyone wants that, or indeed has that time.

[pwner 35]

I don't think the problem is the AI reacting to dead bodies. The problem, I think, is that the AI react to dead bodies in more cinematic scenarios, where they would have no reason to. If the AAF decide to hose down a crowd of civs, realistically, they're not going to come back the next day and freak out at the river of bodies in the street. On the other hand, if they're on patrol in the middle of nowhere and there's a dead body lying in the middle of the road, that would actually warrant a reaction. So...

I would like to have a command "ignore destroyed" that can be placed on a dead/destroyed cfgVehicle.

[oukej 2911]

Strange. We tried to fix this couple of months ago by making the AI not react on dead bodies that were killed by a script. (in relation to this FT ticket and this thread)

Could you please make sure you're running the latest Arma 3 version and add some repro steps to situation where AI reacts to dead body inadequately?
Thanks a lot

[max1944 16]

Could you please make sure you're running the latest Arma 3 version and add some repro steps to situation where AI reacts to dead body inadequately?

Thanks a lot

 

I have reinstalled ArmA3 (no mods) and the issue is still there. I have made a example of the "Immobile" side mission with the Editor (download here).

 

The right AAF soldier is fine (he won't see the dead bodys)

The left AAF soldier will go into combat mode (he sees them)

The patrolling AAF soldier walks around the damaged hunter and will enter combat mode until he sees the dead bodys.

[OMAC 254]

I haven't tried your test "Immobile" mission yet, but I made a test mission where NATO soldiers in Careless mode (group 1) come upon some unseen NATO dead bodies (group 2).  Group 1 starts about 150m away from group 2, but a building is between them so they can't see each other.  The units of group 2 were killed by setDamage 1 eight seconds after mission start.  No enemy forces are on the map.  There is no reaction of group 1 to the dead bodies whatsoever.  The living soldiers of group 1 never exit Careless mode, even though they walk right through the corpses of group 2.

 

Then I added a Hunter to group 2 and set it to blow up when the footmobiles are killed.  Still there was no reaction to the carnage by group 1, who walked calmly through the dead bodies and burning wreck.  The only difference caused by the burning Hunter was that Group 1 leader said, "Clear!," around the time he spots the carnage.

 

I then added a CSAT soldier next to group 2, who is quickly killed by group 2 before they themselves are killed.  Still, group 1 units, who can hear the shots and explosion of the Hunter, have no reaction. 

 

The above seems to confirm what oukej wrote, that AI are not reacting strangely to dead bodies and blown vehicles.  Using 1.54 stable.

 

I wouldn't have been surprised if group 1 units entered Aware mode upon seeing the dead units, and stayed like that for a few minutes.  But they never left Careless mode.

 

-----

 

When I make missions, they are like my children, and receive lots of tender, loving care.  When they become broken or someone notices a problem, I immediately fix them.  I'm sure BI playable content team also cares deeply about East Wind + Prologue campaigns which took so much time to make.   Arma Tech, including the essential, awesome editors (2d + 3d), makes it all possible, and allows for modding which grows the game player base.  But the REAL creativity and awesomeness comes from the mission makers.  This is the Art of Arma, why Arma exists; making a new virtual reality.  I could be wrong, but I'll bet that BI peeps are checking their playable content with regard to changes to AI and other game elements that were developed after the campaigns were.  Although new Tech should be introduced even if it breaks campaign missions, I would still hope that BI peeps fix the campaign accordingly so that future players will have fun with it.  The campaigns are some of main legacies of BI dating back to OFP.

[Greenfist 1863]

The dead bodies are ignored only if they're on the same side.
 
And of course with careless behaviour they ignore everything, like 100 live enemy soldiers. They'll just look at them funny. :icon_twisted:

[OMAC 254]

Even the dead body of the CSAT soldier was ignored in my mission.  Even if I add a few more CSAT right at group 2, group 1 never leaves Careless mode even as they walk past the dead NATO and CSAT bodies and burning Hunter. 

[Greenfist 1863]

Even the dead body of the CSAT soldier was ignored in my mission.  Even if I add a few more CSAT right at group 2, group 1 never leaves Careless mode even as they walk past the dead NATO and CSAT bodies and burning Hunter. 

Yeah, careless behaviour works like that. They won't react even if you shoot them.

[OMAC 254]

Yeah, careless behaviour works like that. They won't react even if you shoot them.

 

Yes, if I set group 1 to Safe, then they react normally to the carnage and go into Combat mode if CSAT corpses are present, and will stay in Combat mode for some time. They seem to stay in combat or alert mode for a long time, as in max1944's test mission.  The length of time they stay in combat mode after encountering corpses is the issue which could effect BI missions.  Perhaps behavior changes in waypoints could be used to fix the issue in missions... 

[Charles_Carmicheal 0]

gg

[pwner 35]

Strange. We tried to fix this couple of months ago by making the AI not react on dead bodies that were killed by a script. (in relation to this FT ticket and this thread)

Could you please make sure you're running the latest Arma 3 version and add some repro steps to situation where AI reacts to dead body inadequately?

Thanks a lot

AI still react to scripted civilian deaths.