1.54 Fatigue is too Unrealistic

[rob1 4]

Have you guys also noticed that when you've done everything in setting up the shot (regain stamina, wait for sway to calm, rested weapon, hold breath) & the damn thing fights against you putting it on target.  So damn stupid :angry:

 

This was vanilla on sp campaign using the mk18 ABR 7.62 crouched.

[Beagle 684]

The artifical handicap introduced with 1.54 has nothing to do with "realism". it is that, an atificial handicap. I just this evening shot the 6.5x55 Carl Gustav M96/38 Carbine at the outdoor range with a grouping of 12cm at 50m standing, bad light, light rain, light wind, 4°C in less than 20 seconds....don't even think of doing that in ArmA 3... and I'm just a 42 year old pencil pusher whose active military service time was in the mid 1990's. If the demand is there I'm willing to repeat than with a GoPro attached. The current need to go prone and for resting the rifle all the time to get precision shots at less than 100m is simply bulls**t. When it is easier to do something in real life compared to a game considered a recreational amusement, you can consider that game and feature broken.

[ratszo 17]

Playing as light infantry felt good.

 

Light infantry now have a clear advantage in movement & maneuver.

 

You heavies need to embrace your limitations.

[jone_kone 158]

The artifical handicap introduced with 1.54 has nothing to do with "realism". it is that, an atificial handicap. I just this evening shot the 6.5x55 Carl Gustav M96/38 Carbine at the outdoor range with a grouping of 12cm at 50m standing, bad light, light rain, light wind, 4°C in less than 20 seconds....don't even think of doing that in ArmA 3... and I'm just a 42 year old pencil pusher whose active military sevce time was in the mid 1990's. If the demand is there I'm willing to repeat than with a GoPro attached. The current need to go prone and for resting the rifle all the time to get precision shots at less than 100m is simply bulls**t. When ever is is easier to do something in real life compared to a game considered a recreational amusement, you can consider that game and feature broken.

 

I´m not challenging what you´re saying. Just asking a question nicely. :) Have you done that in a combat drill? Running up to the shooting position with a with a full plate carrier induce considerable sway atleast for me with a modded Ak-47. I´m no crackshot by any means,  but it takes 2-5 s. after I lift the weapon to aquire a sight pic that I´m confident that will result in a good center mass hit.

 

But I agree that the current sway system is not translating fairly to the game. A smg or a carbine (or binoculars!) should be easier to handle even under considerable fatigue than a assaultrifle. A supported weapon (be it supported to a lightpost, rock or bipod) should be almost rock solid. 

[Tankbuster 1746]

I´m not challenging what you´re saying. Just asking a question nicely. :) Have you done that in a combat drill? Running up to the shooting position with a with a full plate carrier induce considerable sway for me with a modded Ak-47. I´m no crackshot by any means,  but it takes 2-5 s. after I lift the weapon to aquire a sight pic that I´m confident that will result in a good center mass hit.

 

But I agree that the current sway system is not translating fairly to the game. A smg or a carbine or binoculars should be easier to handle even under considerable fatigue than a assoult. A supported weapon (be it a lightpost, rock or bipod) should be almost rock solid. 

You make a good point. The sway in itself is a great idea and I think that the really bad sway is a sensible penalty for sprinting with all that gear on, but when you stop, you should be recovered enough to take a decent mid range shot within a few seconds, not the half minute it takes now.

[KPABATOK 14]

Playing as light infantry felt good.

 

Light infantry now have a clear advantage in movement & maneuver.

 

You heavies need to embrace your limitations.

 

you need to leave your house and see real world. Not everybody here plays real life simulator. And you probably haven't even held a gun in your life since there are people who were soldiers and even they say the sway is retarded.

 

P.S. and after all that said, it does not translate to a game at all. You can not have "realism" on a computer monitor. Kids, get a life, really. You want realism so much - go joing the military. I want some fun in front of computer screen and not try to counter-balance stupid sway everytime I move 5 meters.

[Beagle 684]

I´m not challenging what you´re saying. Just asking a question nicely. :) Have you done that in a combat drill? Running up to the shooting position with a with a full plate carrier induce considerable sway atleast for me with a modded Ak-47. I´m no crackshot by any means,  but it takes 2-5 s. after I lift the weapon to aquire a sight pic that I´m confident that will result in a good center mass hit.

 

But I agree that the current sway system is not translating fairly to the game. A smg or a carbine (or binoculars!) should be easier to handle even under considerable fatigue than a assaultrifle. A supported weapon (be it supported to a lightpost, rock or bipod) should be almost rock solid. 

Yes back in 1993 we did something to simulate that in basic training in a easy and cheap way on the range. Carry a comrade 200m on your back, drop down and shoot a 10 round series. Btw: we did not had light assault rifles back then but were still using the H&K G3, nowadays considered a Battle Rifle. So the comparison ArmA III vs, the real world goes even worse since in ArmA II tzhe sway now even gets worse in the process of shooting.

[Tankbuster 1746]

Yes back in 1993 we did something to simulate that in basic training in a easy and cheap way on the range. Carry a comrade 200m on your back, drop down and shoot a 10 round series. Btw: we did not had light assault rifles back then but were still using the H&K G3, nowadays considered a Battle Rifle. So the comparison ArmA III vs, the real world goes even worse since in ArmA II tzhe sway now even gets worse in the process of shooting.

Try it with an SLR! :)

[Greenfist 1863]

Have you guys tried today's new sway on Dev branch? After a quick test, it seems more reasonable. Maybe. Recovery with a heavy loadout is still slow, but I don't think I mind that; heavy people shouldn't run 'n gun. :)

 

Let's hope these changes make it into the upcoming hotfix.

[mmaruda 20]

Can't this be scientifically tested? Just get a normal guy, have him wear all the stuff, give him a gun, put some sort of motion tracker on the gun (gopro, gyro, whatever), have him run, aim, hold breath etc and than compare results?

[I give up 152]

Yes, it was scientifically tested.

[Beagle 684]

Can't this be scientifically tested? Just get a normal guy, have him wear all the stuff, give him a gun, put some sort of motion tracker on the gun (gopro, gyro, whatever), have him run, aim, hold breath etc and than compare results?

Most marksmen and (former) soldiers here and I guess even the developers of ArmA III are well aware that the current behaviour is an artificial handicap to make the game "authentic". This has nothing do do with real life behaviour.

[Roddis 27]

I had vote to old system was best but i have now delete my vote and stand by my decision why the new system have some intresting point to me.

 

I can't be sure yet but i think the new sway levels limit a bit the run and gun people and i saw less navid CBQ guys out there. 

 

I'm ready to swap the old far better fatigue movement system for a best tactical rewarding system.

 

My fear is that the new sway system is a way to distract attention to the new movement system. 

 

In fact it has already received a decrease in dev-branch. I think instead that is the only good news of nexus update.

[j_travinski 10]

The game is a simulator of the patient with epilepsy

[andersson 285]

I saw this ad and I thought it to be a bit sad and a hint to the current way of doing things:

 

Since 2001 a patch is a patch and it's released to fix things broken in the game. Sometimes a new feature is added which has so far been welcomed. The need to write that it's free is probably needed as many other companies are selling their games in parts nowadays. So thank you BI for not being like everybody else.

 

Another sad thing is if it wasn't for free I would probably not buy it... I am getting more and more concerned about what looks like BI is trying to make the game more "accessible" to the average gamer. Sure they probably make more money by selling more games, and who can really blame them for it, but for me the same process is making my gaming sessions more frustrating. I'm used to play around bugs and ignore graphical problems, but to be hit with design choices that are strange I can't ignore even if I wished for it. But then again who am I compared to the money out there. I can only wish that BI will continue to stay with the same vision as before, an authentic sandbox. One thing I'm certain of is that the modding community will keep the game as I like it and that I also thank BI for as their game is modding friendly and that they give us so many commands and what not. I just hope they can fix what the modders can't, like driving AI, tank physX and other under the hood irritations.

I don't really know if I have a point to end this saturday beer bs, but I'm emotional for this game series for good reasons. And that I thank BI for too.

[KPABATOK 14]

Have you guys tried today's new sway on Dev branch? After a quick test, it seems more reasonable. Maybe. Recovery with a heavy loadout is still slow, but I don't think I mind that; heavy people shouldn't run 'n gun. :)

 

Let's hope these changes make it into the upcoming hotfix.

 

or they could change give us option to disable it and go back to legacy and then they can keep tweaking and fixing their nexus sway all they want. I do not care. You can't expect them to fix something they intended to put in a first place. They can not satisfy both sides - hardcore muh realism kids who never held a gun in their hands and normal arma 3 players who just want to have fun.

[andersson 285]

 They can not satisfy both sides - hardcore muh realism kids who never held a gun in their hands and normal arma 3 players who just want to have fun.

They tried with the result that no side is satisfied.

[OMAC 254]

Have you guys tried today's new sway on Dev branch? After a quick test, it seems more reasonable. Maybe. Recovery with a heavy loadout is still slow, but I don't think I mind that; heavy people shouldn't run 'n gun. :)

 

Let's hope these changes make it into the upcoming hotfix.

 

Has an upcoming hotfix been announced? 

[Greenfist 1863]

Has an upcoming hotfix been announced? 

Yes: https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/183855-release-candidate-branch-announcements/?p=2949173

[Beagle 684]

Yes: https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/183855-release-candidate-branch-announcements/?p=2949173

there is no a single word about the excessive "sway".

[OMAC 254]

Nope.  :( 

[I give up 152]

I am fatigued.

[Greenfist 1863]

there is no a single word about the excessive "sway".

No, but it's possible they'll add the sway tweaks from dev branch to it. IF they think it's serious enough.

[teabagginpeople 398]

I warned the management I'd have to do a hostile take over if they didn't get their shit right.

otherwise arma will be just that "call of doody " game dyslecxi and other people playing squad reminisce about.

I'm going to put a few guys from dev branch to head up quality control. When you play the new expansion you're going to feel like you are watching a YouTube go pro video of an actual intense fire fight. the only complaints you'll have is your lack of clean undies.

[JamesTheClarke 40]

My opinion on the matter hasn't really changed in the last few days, so I'm going to re-post what I've already said in the dev-fatigue thread:

 

I fully agree with Alwarren's BIS forum post and Dslyecxi's tweet.
 
This new system is a quite strange hybrid between very casual / arcade (no penalty on regular movement) and punishing MilSim (sprinting). Neither target audience is going to be very happy with it as it only partially fulfils each interest group's requirements, while heavily infringing on the desires of the other.
 
The previous stamina system was perfect for what Arma does best: provide an easy to use, simplistic platform which kinda reflects real life aspects rarely found in more arcade shooters without going too overboard with the MilSim aspects. The MilSim crowd could always use systems like ACE and ACRE to cater to a full-on MilSim experience without imposing it onto the "general public". All the old system needed was a vanilla UI reflection of how stamina builds up over time, similar to what the ShackTac Stamina Bar does.
 
I'm in the MilSim camp and thus I can at least rest assured that the ACE team will soon provide us again with a usable system, but for the general public mostly playing Altis Life, Wasteland and smaller un-modded scenarios with their friends this system will probably be a huge turn-off. Honestly I'm a bit baffled by the decision to not handle the new stamina system the same way AFM was: add it to the game as a feature which can be turned on either player or server side, but is off by default (old system remains in place).
 
I strongly believe that BIS should not start "fixing" things that aren't broken, such as the simplistic old stamina system or the base medical system. They function fine and do their job, if anyone wants more there are dedicated modding teams working hard on it. Please focus your attention on things that are actually rather broken, but much harder to fix: AI driving (especially when it comes to avoiding obstacles, not driving over friendly infantry patrols crossing the road and movement in convoys), AI suppression, AI rate of fire / dispersion, AI coordination of various elements, AI flying (especially landing without manually forcing it via Zeus / Ares).
 
AI behaviour / performance is something that currently even the best of mods had limited success at improving - especially on the scale of larger, organised community game play.