RHS Escalation (AFRF and USAF)

[markh7991 10]

Not a problem Damian. I realise you guys are busy enough.

Its good to know it's in the pipeline at some point though and you're looking into it. I'll dream of an RHS Mi-28 in the meantime while using the meh vanilla one.

Ta

[Redphoenix 1540]

Not a problem Damian. I realise you guys are busy enough.

Its good to know it's in the pipeline at some point though and you're looking into it. I'll dream of an RHS Mi-28 in the meantime while using the meh vanilla one.

Ta

Oh hell, you can be sure that this one will come, it's my favourite chopper ;)

[blackpixxel 53]

But we chose to set that values as what we understood was the most realistic approach to body impacts. If in the future we see that it's not accurate enough for our taste we'll tweak the values. But for now we are comfortable with them.

Thank you for your understanding.

Have you ever played a multiplayer-session using this system? Maybe a human could survive that many hits for a short time, but would he still be able to continue fighting as if nothing happend? Because that is exactly what AI (and players) are currently doing. I hit them 4 times, and they still keep on firing. So it may be realistic that a man would be still alive after taking 4 shots, but I don't think that he would remain 100% combat-effective after so many hits.

So increasing the 'realism' of one aspect of the damage system while the other one stays the same (as long as BI does not touch medical system) does not seem to be the right approach. At the moment it is not enjoyable for me to fight against these units, it does not feel realistic/authentic at all (from the perspective of a non-military person). Hiting AI multiple times while the still run around, go prone and stand up looks very absurd.

But this is of course only my personnal opinion :)

[markh7991 10]

@RedPhoenix

[mistyronin 1181]

Have you ever played a multiplayer-session using this system? Maybe a human could survive that many hits for a short time, but would he still be able to continue fighting as if nothing happend?

Quite many in fact, I really enjoy the mod :)

And enemies fall after 2x 5,56mm or 3-4x 9mm which is a fine value IMO. Obviously I'd prefer if there was a more complex hitting/first-aid system in the vanilla but that's not up to us I'm afraid.

Tho we are studying the possibility to add a more deep hitting system with critical zones also for "humans".

The only time you can hit an AI a lot of times is when you shoot at its weapon, then the bullets bounce instead of penetrate.

Remember to disable extended armor.

Edited February 4, 2015 by MistyRonin

[reyhard 2082]

Hey guys, I encountered a script error coming from RHS recently. Here it is: http://i.imgur.com/gz1N5GC.jpg

So taking a look at the code I can see that the issue is when neither attachment is found by the find command, so _i = -1 (which isn't a valid array index). So you just need to wrap the while statement in an if (_i >= 0) then {};

is this only happening when specating?

[blackpixxel 53]

...

Well, that sounds alot better than what I experienced, and definitely authentic. Does it maybe work better with RHS weapons than with other ones? I always use the vanilla F2000, AGM runs on our server as well.

[mistyronin 1181]

Well, that sounds alot better than what I experienced, and definitely authentic. Does it maybe work better with RHS weapons than with other ones? I always use the vanilla F2000, AGM runs on our server as well.

Indeed, it was using RHS weapons. As I commented before, as our mod is a total modification so it's not really meant to be compatible with the vanilla weapons ( that way we have more control and we can produce a more realistic system ).

I'll definitely test it a bit with AGM to see if it's the cause of the "extra-armor".

[blackpixxel 53]

I only know that AGM reduces body armor, so it should not cause the behaviour I described.

Mhmm, it would be awesome to have a 'community standard' for weapon damage and armor values

[mistyronin 1181]

I only know that AGM reduces body armor, so it should not cause the behaviour I described.

Mhmm, it would be awesome to have a 'community standard' for weapon damage and armor values

I just tried with the vanilla weapons ( F2000 for instance ) and they have the same effect as ours. 2x 5,56 = dead 2x 0,45 = dead

I'll now try it with AGM.

[serjames 357]

Agreed - no way 2 x 5.56 shots from A CUP L85 is taking down the RHS russians... We run AGM too btw.

More like at least 5 I would say - body hits that is...

I'm not complaining, just feeding back - in case anyone wonders :-)

SJ

[tachi 10]

I'll definitely test it a bit with AGM to see if it's the cause of the "extra-armor".

It's definitely does.

Explanation why:

RHS Soldier:

class rhs_infantry_msv_base : SoldierEB
{
		class HitPoints: HitPoints
	{
		class HitHead: HitHead
		{
			armor = "0.3*2.5"; // [b][color="#FF0000"]0.75 armor[/color][/b]
		};
		class HitBody: HitBody
		{
			armor = "0.7*10"; // [b][color="#FF0000"]7 armor[/color][/b]
		};
		class HitHands: HitHands
		{
			armor = "0.9*5"; // [b][color="#FF0000"]4.5 armor[/color][/b]
		};
		class HitLegs: HitLegs
		{
			armor = "0.9*5";// [b][color="#FF0000"]4.5 armor[/color][/b]
		};
	};
};

Vanilla soldier:

class SoldierEB
{
	class HitPoints: HitPoints
	{
		class HitHead: HitHead
		{
			armor=1;
		};
		class HitBody: HitBody
		{
			armor=2; //[b][color="#FF0000"]armor 2[/color][/b]
		};
		class HitHands: HitHands
		{
			armor=2;
		};
		class HitLegs: HitLegs
		{
			armor=2;
		};
	};
};

And so for example vest gives 25 protection. This means that RHS units will have overall 25+7= 32 armor value for torso. While vanilla unit will have 25+2 = 27 armor value for torso.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Tachi

[mistyronin 1181]

In fact I've just tried with RHS + AGM and no difference from RHS + vanilla.

I added a vanilla civilian guy, a Russian officer (without vest) and a Russian soldier (with vest).

Both the civilian guy and the Russian officer took 2x 5,56x45 in the chest to die ( I used a vanilla F2000 ).

As a side-note a single 5,56 already injuries you and throws you to the floor.

The Russian soldier with the vest took 3-4x 5,56x45 ( which is IMO correct, as that's precisely why the vest is for ).

Which makes me think it may be the CUP ones you mentioned. I'll download the mod and test it.

What versions are you using of both RHS and vanilla?

Edited February 4, 2015 by MistyRonin

[tachi 10]

In fact I've just tried with RHS + AGM and no difference from RHS + vanilla.

I added a civilian guy, a Russian officer without vest and a Russian soldier with vest.

Both the civilian guy and the Russian officer took 2x 5,56x45 in the chest to die ( I used vanilla F2000 ).

As a side-note a single 5,56 already injuries you and throws you to the floor.

The Russian soldier with the vest took 3-4x 5,56x45 ( which is IMO correct, as that's precisely why the vest is for ).

Which makes me think it may be the CUP ones you mentioned. I'll download the mod and test it.

What versions are you using of both RHS and vanilla?

Place any RHS soldier. Then give him RHS uniform and RHS vest. Shoot at him, see the result.

Then remove his uniform. And shoot at him, see the result.

Do the same, but insted of RHS soldier place vanila soldier, and shoot at him with rhs uniform and without it.

Note the difference with uniform, and without

P.S. i'm using latest stable RHS, not beta, same with A3

Edited February 4, 2015 by Tachi

[mistyronin 1181]

Place any RHS soldier. Then give him RHS uniform and RHS vest. Shoot at him, see the result.

Then remove his uniform. And shoot at him, see the result.

Do the same, but insted of RHS soldier place vanila soldier, and shoot at him with rhs uniform and without it.

Note the difference with uniform, and without

I got the same exact results as I mentioned above. And the armor values are the same as you pasted above.

Are you using any other mod?

[SilentSpike 84]

is this only happening when specating?

Yes, but it will happen any time switchCamera is used on a unit with the RHS weapons that are applicable when the actual player doesn't have an applicable weapon. So it should be accounted for in the RHS script for compatibility with other scripts (besides, the index should ideally be validated regardless if there's a chance for it to be invalid). :)

Edit: You may also wish to investigate using cameraOn instead of player (I haven't looked into exactly what the script is doing to see which method of fixing it is more suitable).

Edited February 4, 2015 by SilentSpike

[tachi 10]

I got the same exact results as I mentioned above. And the armor values are the same as you pasted above.

Are you using any other mod?

I'll just make a video later. Will run only RHS

[jonpas 294]

Tho we are studying the possibility to add a more deep hitting system with critical zones also for "humans".

Wouldn't that make it incompatible with a lot of other mods, like AGM and it's Medical and such? Or are you thinking of giving parts of body less "protection"?

Love the mod, great work and a lot of hours put into it, keep up the great work! The scale this mod is on it's actually very surprisingly it's so compatible as it is.

[mistyronin 1181]

Wouldn't that make it incompatible with a lot of other mods, like AGM and it's Medical and such? Or are you thinking of giving parts of body less "protection"?

The second. As I told you we are just studying that possibility. But for instance create vital zones like the heart where one direct shoot would mean death. :)

[jonpas 294]

Yep I understand you are studying it, I am looking forward to what that study reveals. :)

If it would be my choice, I would make it another PBO that would contain that and could be removed, but on the scale of RHS I am not sure if it can be handled well. Just an idea.

[11_harley_11 0]

But we chose to set that values as what we understood was the most realistic approach to body impacts. If in the future we see that it's not accurate enough for our taste we'll tweak the values. But for now we are comfortable with them.

I for one wish you would reduce these numbers, me and my buddies tried the mod, loved it until we had a fire fight. We actually don't play it for this reason and this reason alone. tbh it feels more SciFi than vanilla ever did.

Comments on 506th realism units videos tend to agree. When someone commented on the huge amount of rounds AI were taking before going down the reply was:

"Its just the RHS mod, they still have some balancing to do. Trust me, all of us in the 506th really don't like it either but we still have fun."

Yes they're having but I've heard many expletives in their videos when they have to empty half a clip into the AI.

It's a brilliant mod but please don't be too stubborn on this subject.

[tachi 10]

I for one wish you would reduce these numbers, me and my buddies tried the mod, loved it until we had a fire fight. We actually don't play it for this reason and this reason alone. tbh it feels more SciFi than vanilla ever did.

Comments on 506th realism units videos tend to agree. When someone commented on the huge amount of rounds AI were taking before going down the reply was:

"Its just the RHS mod, they still have some balancing to do. Trust me, all of us in the 506th really don't like it either but we still have fun."

Yes they're having but I've heard many expletives in their videos when they have to empty half a clip into the AI.

It's a brilliant mod but please don't be too stubborn on this subject.

Well, i described in details why it's happening, it's up to RHS to fix it or not.

[malcom86 33]

I agree. 5-6 shots to kill are not that realistic neither, they looks more like Soviet Terminators :D

Apart from jokes, I quote diminishing those values could only make the realism of the mod benefits.

[seba1976 98]

it feels more SciFi than vanilla ever did.

Off with his head! :)

[mistyronin 1181]

I agree. 5-6 shots to kill are not that realistic neither, they looks more like Soviet Terminators :D

Apart from jokes, I quote diminishing those values could only make the realism of the mod benefits.

The fact, is that it doesn't take 5-6 shoots to kill any of our units.

Using only A3 vanilla + RHS it takes 2x 5,56x45 vanilla bullets in the chest to kill a vanilla civilian or a RHS soldier without vest, and 3-4 bullets to kill a RHS soldier with a vest ( with AGM it's exactly the same ).

That values that are realistic ( feel free to check war reports ).

Obviously we would love to have a most customized hit-points, and maybe we will in the future, but for now with the vanilla ones should be fine. :)