The sniper saga

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (iNeo @ Oct. 11 2002,09:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I agree with bn880... "It takes a thief to stop a thief", right?<span id='postcolor'>

Well yes, you could say that's part of what I'm saying.

There have been all these mass murerers and yet the authorities have no way of spotting who might potentially become one and exactly why. That's what I mean by understanding. I don't mean talk nicely to a serial killer and tell him everything is ok about his actions and be his best friend.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Oct. 11 2002,10:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And I don't agree that for the sake of "public knowledge" any nut that commits a murder or attempted murder should have their manifesto published. That starts a dangerous precedent where any nut job can have his ramblings desimated to the public by killing some innocent bystander. Public knowledge should not be given at the sacrifice of public safety.<span id='postcolor'>

Why not, I would like to see all their manifestos in a public library so I can go over them for MY own knowledge, and everyone interested can study them also.

There may be people outside of law enforcement who can make connections and revelations about these killers... and no, you can not tell who may be your next expert if you don't try. It is a huge mistake to involve only "trained" professional in really difficult problems, as someone from a completely different practice may be able to contribute. (usually not I know)

[Assault (CAN) 1]

Yep, another person was killed today, as Mr. Frag said. That brings the total to 8 killed and 2 wounded.

CNN.com

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FREDERICKSBURG, Virginia (CNN) -- Police launched a massive manhunt on one of the country's busiest north-south arteries Friday after a man was shot and killed at a gas station near Fredericksburg, Virginia.

The Virginia Department of Transportation issued a notice to motorists of spot checks at blockades causing delays in north- and southbound lanes of the highway. Exits were closed, backing up traffic for miles on Interstate 95 south of Washington.

The man was killed at an Exxon gas station on U.S. Route 1 in Spotsylvania County, in the area of Exit 126 on I-95, about 9:30 a.m., according to Virginia state police and county police. No identification of the victim was made immediately available by law enforcement personnel.

The victim was shot while pumping gas. Video footage from the shooting scene shows police gathered around the victim's car, which still had the pump nozzle attached.

It was not known whether the killing was related to the recent Washington-area sniper shootings that have killed seven people and wounded two others. Three of the sniper shootings targeted people filling their cars at gas stations.

State police are looking for a white Chevrolet Astro-type minivan with ladders on top. The task force investigating the sniper shootings is sending investigators to the scene. Lucy Caldwell, Virginia state police spokeswoman, said witnesses reported seeing such a vehicle leaving the area.

The county sheriff said a state police trooper was near the gas station at the time of the attack. "The uniformed trooper was directly across the street and obviously we're dealing with an individual that's extremely violent and obviously doesn't care," said Maj. Howard Smith of the Spotsylvania County Sheriff's department.

A witness to the shooting provided police with a description of two people inside the vehicle, Smith said.

"Thousands of officers are searching" the area, Caldwell said, adding that every exit ramp along I-95 is manned.

The commercial area where the Exxon station is located is familiar to frequent interstate drivers -- hotels, motels and restaurants clustered near woods and housing developments.

<span id='postcolor'>

Scary stuff.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Err, when the hell did sniping become a sport? Makes me wonder if the writer has confused sniping with hobbyists who enjoy harmless precision shooting. <span id='postcolor'>

That's exactly what they've done, E6Hotel.

I post at sniper's hide.com and the majority of the people there are ex military or L.E. snipers or members. The rest are dedicated precision shooters and hunters who are being painted by the liberal media as some sort of obsessive loners who train to kill people. It's sad it has come to this, as many of us have feared. Sure, there are some wierdos out there, but you can't paint all of us with the same brush.

Tyler

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Oct. 11 2002,19:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Oct. 11 2002,10:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And I don't agree that for the sake of "public knowledge" any nut that commits a murder or attempted murder should have their manifesto published. That starts a dangerous precedent where any nut job can have his ramblings desimated to the public by killing some innocent bystander. Public knowledge should not be given at the sacrifice of public safety.<span id='postcolor'>

Why not, I would like to see all their manifestos in a public library so I can go over them for MY own knowledge, and everyone interested can study them also.  

There may be people outside of law enforcement who can make connections and revelations about these killers... and no, you can not tell who may be your next expert if you don't try.  It is a huge mistake to involve only "trained" professional in really difficult problems, as someone from a completely different practice may be able to contribute. (usually not I know)<span id='postcolor'>

There are ways to "get to know" a serial killer other than giving them free reign on a public forum for their generally esoteric ramblings. Read case studies by psycologists, criminal "experts", forensic reports, FBI profiles, and the like. Reading a serial killers ruminations about life will be little help to you as you and I don't have the education in such a field to unscramble possible psycological meanings (though you might I don't know), nor the background. Nor will looking at John Wayne Gacy's clown pictures give you better insight in to him. People keep talking of "reasons" and "motivations", but the sad truth is most don't need one. Son Of Sam said his neighbor's dog told him to do it. Is that the "motivation" that you are looking for? Jeffery Dahmer killed and ate his victims to try and fill some void in his soul, his urge to belong and hold on to a piece of the person forever, sort of a power trip as in "You belong to me now". Most serial killers are motivated by only a few general things. 1) A superiority complex that masks deep-seeded feelings of emotional and social inferiority, 2) strong hatred towards a particular "group" (ie blond women) for some percieved wrong that was committed against them (ie Ted Bundy), and 3) the desire to control and "own" a person (a number of kidnapping/murder serial killers) are generally the main "motivations" that I have seen in my amuteur studies. There are no "motivations" or "manifestos" from people of this nature. They are not doing it because they want the U.S. to pull out of the Middle East. The Unibomber had a rambling Manifesto but then again he is not a serial killer. The knowledge you seek is only obtainable by case studies. You can't read a serial killers "reasons" and expect them to jump up at you and give you an easy reason. They are usually buried deep in their past.

I read all I can at The Crime Library to get SOME idea. After reading almost every case study there, I can generally begin to make out patterns in serial killer behavior, and "motivation". There are excellent articles by FBI agents as well. The authorities can't accept just any helper that comes along with an idea. There are legal issues, as well as the sheer resources needed to do that. Undoubtedly there are those out there not trained in such police work that can make a valuable contribution, but in the effort to keep the crackpots from miring down the investigation, they will most likely be ignored.

Course it has not been proven yet that this is a classical serial killer and not just some nut job mad about Waco.

[bn880 5]

Akira: That's what you think. We clearly have different opinions.

EDIT: I would not be interested in interpreted information, especially by the FBI! What do I look like?

[foxer 0]

I hate the media,Now they think it might be some kid (around 19-22) that plays video games doing it,and he train himself on how to snipe with a video game.

[Col. Kurtz 0]

We have already gone through this, there is no game real enough train him, and its likely that the media are looking for a scapegoat, its easy to sue ID Software claiming that their games are "cough*realistic*cough* and train people to kill.

[bn880 5]

OKay, now they are saying the vehicle seen was a white Astro Van.

One thing is certain, it's something white on wheels.

[iNeo 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">He wants to be cold, rough, feared. But he isn't. The police should be looking for someone who wanted to be a sniper, expert Brent E Turvey says.<span id='postcolor'>

Umm... Isn't he cold? Isn't he rough? Isn't he feared?

He definitly is.

[PitViper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Oct. 12 2002,09:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">OKay, now they are saying the vehicle seen was a white Astro Van.

One thing is certain, it's something white on wheels.  <span id='postcolor'>

now now. we can't be conducting vehicular profiling.

[ralphwiggum 6]

if that report of White van with ladder rack is true, then I think we might be seeing some of those 'Saving Private Ryan'-ish sniper lunatic. Once in awhile, wee se ppl who say 'isn't it nice to go up the tree and snip from higher grounds?' and i'm starting to think that maybe he went up the trees and wanted to fulfill his f@#$ing fantasy.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

I think the first thing we need to take into account is that generally, the media doesn't know jack-shit, and substitute rampant speculation in lieu of actual facts. Because the criminal obviously is acting smart so far, the cops and the feds will limit the info given to the media, because the media will then broadcast it all over the country, allowing the criminal to stay one step ahead. Instead, they will limit the info to a marginal psych profile, a possible vehicle, and a weapon, and then let the media jack-offs spin their little yarns while the cops do the real work.

[Renagade 0]

True.

Wonder what the ordinary folk are going to do in the meantime

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Renagade @ Oct. 12 2002,21:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">True.

Wonder what the ordinary folk are going to do in the meantime  <span id='postcolor'>

Be cool about it. Don't panic, but If you are near the area of the other killings, be careful, report anything suspicious (guns sticking out of white vans, people bleeding on the sidewalk, the usual), and try not to go out of the house unless you need to. That lawn can get mowed after they catch this guy.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/South/10/12/shootings.probe/index.html

Fredericksburg, Va. this time.

[IceFire 0]

Has anyone given this guy a "nick name" yet?

I think he has gone on long enough to have earned a "nickname" for the history books.

I'm not in a creative mood. All I can think of is "the Mont Co sniper".

I think the only way to catch this guy is with a dedicated "counter sniper".

Like Carlos Hathcock's instructor Capt Jim Land, "the best way to stop a sniper is with a sniper". Or somthing like that.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Except this guy isn't a sniper. He's operating from a vehicle, which means another sniper is useless. A SWAT QRF would be much more effective, and Im sure they have several on standby in the area. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if some guys from the FBI HRT were around.

But really, this isn't a fuckin war, and having another sniper operating in urban or suburban areas during peacetime is not only ludicrous, but impractical. It's a nice romantic notion, but in this situation it's a dumb idea.

[DarkLight 0]

I bet if he stops now, no one will ever find out who did it, this guy isn't just some lunatic. He's hit almost 10 people now ,with some really skillful shots. The cops can't do a lot about it, i think they won't get that guy very fast. Everyone makes mistakes but this guy has patience and works clean. If he continues they'll get him one day if he's gonna stop soon they'll never find him.

[ralphwiggum 6]

my thoughts are that this bastard is having orgasm doing it. he is now enjoying his notoriety.

however, sooner or later, he will slip. and he will be dealt swiftly with maximum penalty under the law.

i doubt if LEOs can do much. it's like finding a needle in a hay stack. and i'm hoping no other sniper wannabes are trying to be counter snipers there. that would confuse the LEOs even more.

if he is shooting from within his car, then there won't be much of evidence to follow. whatever evidence it produces will be in the car.

[bn880 5]

OKay, press conference going on now showing composite of white box truck. There is the truck and the Astro Van, both white that the suspect may have a relation to. I urge everyone concerned to find and post the composite of the truck. I have no link yet.

[ralphwiggum 6]

well, now they are looking for this kind of truck.

CNN article

and FOX is delaying release of a movie that has sniper in it.

link to local news.

[bn880 5]

Victim profiles also : http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/South/10/11/shooting.victims/index.html

sketchy

[Sadico 1]

Hey, i've got a question (it's a bit offtopic): Anybody knows what U.S. law enforcement agency is using the HK G36? Yesterday while i was watching the news i saw 2 guys with G36's patrolling near the crime scene, but i didn't see if they were FBI or cops.

[iNeo 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sadico @ Oct. 13 2002,21:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yesterday while i was watching the news i saw 2 guys with G36's patrolling near the crime scene, but i didn't see if they were FBI or cops.<span id='postcolor'>

I doubt that it was FBI... So probably cops.

[ralphwiggum 6]

and as always, some idiots are bound to show up.

CNN - Sniper Hoax