Russia General

[vilas 477]

What about this one?

If in fact, what is wrong with Putin?

you do not understand what west and central europe see wrong ?

- washing history,

- violence against gay (you may not not like someone, may not allow mariage right, but not beat),

- imperialism and trying to force Russian interest in ex-commie countries which want to be independence,

- anexation of other country territory against UN,

- saving criminal oligarch Yanukowitch,

- sending troops saying they are not troops "green man" issue , which is worst violence, criminal war, for green man tactics Putin should face international tribunal and life prison like nazis,

etc.

[Tonci87 163]

Now he will reply that other leaders do the same or that it is all pro Western propaganda, it must be is some pro Putin rulebook.

[astral4eg 10]

you do not understand what west and central europe see wrong ?

- washing history,

- violence against gay (you may not not like someone, may not allow mariage right, but not beat),

- imperialism and trying to force Russian interest in ex-commie countries which want to be independence,

- anexation of other country territory against UN,

- saving criminal oligarch Yanukowitch,

- sending troops saying they are not troops "green man" issue , which is worst violence, criminal war, for green man tactics Putin should face international tribunal and life prison like nazis,

etc.

- According to my data is west rewrites history.

- As far as I know no serious injuries have not received, and they understood what was going on, a parade permit, the government did not give them. And I also think this is not normal, if a person has a mental disability then why do it to show to others.. What's next? Parades of pe***hiles?

- What countries for example? It's called geopolitics.

- If instead peaceful annexation you prefer a of hot war, then yes.

- But, Yanukovich is God dandelion if compared with present rulers. :)

- I will interpreted this as bad joke (second part of the proposal) :)

Unfortunately your perceptions formed by the western media is completely (or partially) does not correspond to reality.

Edited April 29, 2015 by astral4eg

[Tonci87 163]

What did I say?

[ProfTournesol 956]

Typical North Korean sectarian syndrom : barbarians and fascists are at the gate, every foreign or free medias are lying, the only one who's able to write his own country's history is the Great Leader etc. That's quite sad if you ask me.

[mistyronin 1181]

- According to my data is west rewrites history.

According to your data all the World rewrites history but Russia. You know that there are international scientific conventions on history right?

- I also think this is not normal, if a person has a mental disability then why do it to show to others.

Do you know that homosexuality is not considered a mental disability by any World Medical association, right? It's just a normal sexual option.

In fact, I'd like to remember you that in this forum rules the first one is:

§1) No Flaming/Flame-baiting/bigotry

Abusive, racist, sexist, homophobic comments

- What countries for example? It's called geopolitics.

For instance, Georgia, Ukraine, and basically all the ones that surround Russia. You can call it however you want.

If instead peaceful annexation you prefer a of hot war, then yes.

First. Russia already provoked a "hot war" in Ukraine.

But, Yanukovich is God dandelion if compared with present rulers. :)

From the Kremlin's point of view yes. But I remember you that is the Ukrainian people the one that decides who rules them, and they voted for him; in the same way it was the people who expelled Yanukovich.

Unfortunately your perceptions formed by the western media is completely (or partially) does not correspond to reality.

In fact, seems that the one that is isolated is you. If people from all countries (African, Asiatic, Oceanic, American and European), have certain conventions and a similar view, and the Kremlin has a completely different one... :rolleyes:

You know that when you try to go alone against everyone you always end failing (Napoleon, Hitler, etc.), Putin should have learnt that lesson time ago.

[astral4eg 10]

I was hoping that there will be at least the minimum impartial dialogue, but it seems it will not turn.

[mistyronin 1181]

I was hoping that there will be at least the minimum impartial dialogue, but it seems it will not turn.

So you don't accept that people may think differently? So you want everyone to blindly agree with you, even if you talk nonsense, even if you infringe the forum's rules?

Open your mind, travel, meet people from different countries and cultures. That's gonna help you understand why everyone answers you this way.

[vilas 477]

there were a lot of examples here on this forum about how Putin rewrites Russian history , if you deny it ... there is nothing we can say if you deny facts if they are not good for Putin

if you see nothing wrong in sending troops to other county to anex their territory - than you are like Germans in 30s

anexation is crime, only UN can change borders

It's called geopolitics.

its called violence and imperialism

one thing is visible - Russian "might is right" philosophy, similar to SS-members philosophy

Edited April 29, 2015 by vilas

[John Kozak 14]

In other news, police prohibits people to look into windows or come onto balconies on victory day.

The glitch in the new "national payment processing system" is now written down as "hacker attack" in some media.

Of course, it's evil Western hackers and not all this stolen budget...

[astral4eg 10]

For instance, Georgia, Ukraine, and basically all the ones that surround Russia. You can call it however you want.

Geopolitics

First. Russia already provoked a "hot war" in Ukraine.

Again unknown Cited by Russia's Zavtra nevspaper. A cursory examination which is immediately obvious that this is an pro-west point of view newspaper. And there is no reference to the source. In general a very dubious source.

The problem is that almost all of your sources are sources reflecting western point of view.

Relative impartiality have Vice news, but there is also a bias towards the west.

---------- Post added at 00:33 ---------- Previous post was at 00:20 ----------

one thing is visible - Russian "might is right" philosophy, similar to SS-members philosophy

it's the rule of life, which acts many of the Millennium

[vilas 477]

John Pope 2nd said that measure if someone is human is how he treat weak and poor

also this is what differs civilised man from stone age primitive man

it was rule of life - for bandits, for SS, in stone age, for primitive cultures in Africa, in Sparta, for thugs, for satanists,

but not acceptable in civilisation anymore

one of main nazi points of Lebensborn - SS "kindergardens" was to eliminate weaker (kids) and parents (so called eugenics) , this was also coming from philosophy of "might" what SS was doing in Lebensborn ,what Ahnenerbe was looking for - we know such things from nazi ideology of eliminating anything weaker to set rule to might

Edited April 29, 2015 by vilas

[astral4eg 10]

but not acceptable in civilisation anymore

Say it Yugoslavia, Libya, Iraq..

[maturin 12]

Geopolitics

Again unknown Cited by Russia's Zavtra nevspaper. A cursory examination which is immediately obvious that this is an pro-west point of view newspaper. And there is no reference to the source. In general a very dubious source.

The problem is that almost all of your sources are sources reflecting western point of view.

Relative impartiality have Vice news, but there is also a bias towards the west.

Western point of view? Yes, we cite Western points of view because the 'Eastern' point of view involves denying obvious facts with a smirk, out of loyalty to the Kremlin's hybrid war tactics.

At least usually:

«СпуÑковой крючок войны вÑе-таки нажал Ñ. ЕÑли бы наш отрÑд не перешел границу, в итоге вÑе бы кончилоÑÑŒ, как в Харькове, как в ОдеÑÑе. Было бы неÑколько деÑÑтков убитых, обожженных, ареÑтованных. И на Ñтом бы кончилоÑÑŒ. ...практичеÑки маховик войны, ÐºÐ¾Ñ‚Ð¾Ñ€Ð°Ñ Ð´Ð¾ Ñих пор идет, запуÑтил наш отрÑд».

-Гиркин

«Мы вÑе знали, на что идем и что может быть»

http://www.novayagazeta.ru/society/67490.html

Now, even if you believe that Strelkov and that Buryat танкиÑÑ‚ is lying, the fact remains that Russian invaded Crimea. No reasonable person, who is familiar with the facts, can deny that without the annexation of Crimea, there could have been no war in Donbas. Even in an alternate universe where Russia provided no support, no personnel, there would have been no rebellion. But once Putin provided the example of Crimea, and gave that hope to the tiny group of nationalists, communists, Orthodox fascists and Chechen mercenaries in the Donbas, conflict was inevitable.

Say it Yugoslavia, Libya, Iraq..

For the hundredth time, there is no comparison between the invasion of Iraq and other US interventions.

The US started the war the in Iraq. The US had nothing to do with the roots of the conflict in Libya and Yugoslavia, but intervened in response to the actions of dictators who were responsible for some of the worst atrocities since WWII.

How would you like it if foreigners treated the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and Finland as if those actions were the same as the Soviet invasion of Serbia or Germany? Oh, those evil Russians, always sending their tanks into places like Grozny and Bucharest and Zagreb!

You can't just ignore historical context, unless you just want to spout bullshit.

Edited April 29, 2015 by maturin

[astral4eg 10]

Western point of view? Yes, we cite Western points of view because the 'Eastern' point of view involves denying obvious facts with a smirk, out of loyalty to the Kremlin's hybrid war tactics.

At least usually:

«СпуÑковой крючок войны вÑе-таки нажал Ñ. ЕÑли бы наш отрÑд не перешел границу, в итоге вÑе бы кончилоÑÑŒ, как в Харькове, как в ОдеÑÑе. Было бы неÑколько деÑÑтков убитых, обожженных, ареÑтованных. И на Ñтом бы кончилоÑÑŒ. ...практичеÑки маховик войны, ÐºÐ¾Ñ‚Ð¾Ñ€Ð°Ñ Ð´Ð¾ Ñих пор идет, запуÑтил наш отрÑд».

-Гиркин

Strong statement, taken out of context.

add part of the article for a complete picture

translated by Google [source]

Igor Strelkov. At first, nobody wanted to fight. The first two weeks were held under the banner of the fact that both sides wanted to convince each other. The first days in Slavyansk we and they are very cautious approach to the use of weapons. The first clash was with the SBU, which we have tried to clean up, but fell into an ambush. Even not quite an ambush, and head-on collisions, to which they were not prepared. They suffered losses and get out. Then it was quiet. Ukrainian side started to put roadblocks in our surroundings appeared 25 airmobile brigade. But she was not eager to fight. We were able to disarm the first reconnaissance platoon, then a column. It was exactly disarmament - a submachine gun, threatened burning appliances, they decided not to join the fight and we have been disarmed.

But still for a long time we did not touch them roadblocks, and they do not show aggression. These are the first steps.

Then "Right Sector" started throwing us subversive groups - started a firefight. More National Guard under was not - only the "Right Sector". The Ukrainian side has behaved very cautiously, step by step probed how Russia will behave. The first month there was no shelling of the city. The first firing of Slavyansk - in late May. Before they shelled villages, but he did not touch Slavyansk. But as they knew that Russia would not respond, attacks became more and more powerful action of armored vehicles and aircraft - more and more massive. In early June, they finally believe that Russia does not directly intervene, and had a ball. The first massive attack in Slavonic was the second of May. Next - with all the forces and weaponry - tanks, armored vehicles and - they held June 3rd. Between these attacks were fighting, local skirmishes.

June and July were the most severe. If in April-May everything was on the increase, that is to extend the territory of the uprising, we gradually put under the control of the Donetsk settlements of the republic, the movement spread, in June, we began to retreat. We were on all sides began to draw in, the enemy forces enormously superior in all respects. And the enemy has become the motivation for combat operations. Start fire propagation. And the more, the greater the motivation increased.

The battalions of the National Guard under began to arrive on the battlefield. They were originally motivated: considered the enemy, that is us, as mercenaries in Moscow. They were confident. that we are all sent from Russia. And the fact that we Slavyansk 90% were local, donbassovtsy not even want to believe.

For the hundredth time, there is no comparison between the invasion of Iraq and other US interventions.

The US started the war the in Iraq. The US had nothing to do with the roots of the conflict in Libya and Yugoslavia, but intervened in response to the actions of dictators who were responsible for some of the worst atrocities since WWII.

You can't just ignore historical context, unless you just want to spout bullshit.

About Iraq and Afghanistan (German)

Edited April 30, 2015 by astral4eg

[vilas 477]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes

Russian rhetorics about Iraq and A-stan

and what is "funny", he quotes German TV showing proof of western democracy and free media to critics of governments , if this is understandable at all to him , that this YT movie shows nothing more except freedom of speech in the west , by the way from TV station that lost legal sue because of holocaust lie ,

according to press - Russian MoD said they soon put more army and navy to Kaliningrad on border of Poland and Lithuania

Edited April 30, 2015 by vilas

[oxmox 73]

one of main nazi points of Lebensborn - SS "kindergardens" was to eliminate weaker (kids) and parents (so called eugenics) , this was also coming from philosophy of "might" what SS was doing in Lebensborn ,what Ahnenerbe was looking for - we know such things from nazi ideology of eliminating anything weaker to set rule to might

Some historical background about eugenics as a side note....

Yes, the Nazi´s did actually use the philosophy of eugenics in a very extreme form and went further which did lead to eliminating human beeings in their eugenic program.

Actually the US eugenic program and race politics were taken by the NS ideologists for inspiration.

The idea of eugenics and to distinguish between superior and inferior elements of society was not the origin by germans, the origin of such thoughts were comming from the UK and spread to the USA where it was a huge social movement accepted widely by academics and later introduced in society.

The eugenic program in the USA played a significant role in history and culture of the USA prior to World War 2.

Eugenics was practised in the United States many years before eugenics programs in Nazi Germany and U.S. programs provided much of the inspiration for the latter.

Both class and race factored into eugenic definitions of “fit" and “unfit.

One of the methods that was commonly suggested to get rid of "inferior" populations was euthanasia. Overall, however, euthanasia was marginalized in the U.S., motivating people to turn to forced segregation and sterilization programs as a means for keeping the "unfit" from reproducing.

The Rockefeller Foundation helped develop and fund various German eugenics programs, including the one that Josef Mengele worked in before he went to Auschwitz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States

The Horrifying American Roots of Nazi Eugenics

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/1796

Edited April 30, 2015 by oxmox

[spooky lynx 73]

John Pope 2nd said that measure if someone is human is how he treat weak and poor

Oh yes we all know how gladly Poland treated Red Army POWs in concentration camps after 1919-1921 war and performed very friendly step to weak Czechoslovakia and occupied Zaolzie region... Oh and for sure Polish troops were very kind to Jews at that times.

[astral4eg 10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes

Russian rhetorics about Iraq and A-stan

and what is "funny", he quotes German TV showing proof of western democracy and free media to critics of governments

But how to talk if you are on any Russian media source says "that it is evil Kremlin propaganda"

so we are looking in the Western media

according to press - Russian MoD said they soon put more army and navy to Kaliningrad on border of Poland and Lithuania

And why are you surprised? Poland is one of the most aggressive states in relation to Russia

Edited April 30, 2015 by astral4eg

[John Kozak 14]

Some historical background about eugenics as a side note....

Yes, the Nazi´s did actually use the philosophy of eugenics in a very extreme form and went further which did lead to eliminating human beeings in their eugenic program.

Actually the US eugenic program and race politics were taken by the NS ideologists for inspiration.

The idea of eugenics and to distinguish between superior and inferior elements of society was not the origin by germans, the origin of such thoughts were comming from the UK and spread to the USA where it was a huge social movement accepted widely by academics and later introduced in society.

The eugenic program in the USA played a significant role in history and culture of the USA prior to World War 2.

Eugenics was practised in the United States many years before eugenics programs in Nazi Germany and U.S. programs provided much of the inspiration for the latter.

Both class and race factored into eugenic definitions of “fit" and “unfit.

One of the methods that was commonly suggested to get rid of "inferior" populations was euthanasia. Overall, however, euthanasia was marginalized in the U.S., motivating people to turn to forced segregation and sterilization programs as a means for keeping the "unfit" from reproducing.

The Rockefeller Foundation helped develop and fund various German eugenics programs, including the one that Josef Mengele worked in before he went to Auschwitz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States

The Horrifying American Roots of Nazi Eugenics

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/1796

Yepp, and it wasn't practiced in USSR because Mr. Lysenko was successfully denouncing genetics at the time. The reason USSR was not getting its own eugenics program was not ethics, but the fact that it was immersed in its own, unique set of pseudoscientific crap.

[John Kozak 14]

But how to talk if you are on any Russian media source says "that it is evil Kremlin propaganda"

so we are looking in the Western media

So, you will be fine if tomorrow someone beats the hell out of you and takes your money, right? Because someone does that somewhere right now too - so it's justified in relation to you too.

[John Kozak 14]

Oh yes we all know how gladly Poland treated Red Army POWs in concentration camps after 1919-1921 war and performed very friendly step to weak Czechoslovakia and occupied Zaolzie region... Oh and for sure Polish troops were very kind to Jews at that times.

Yes! Indeed! USSR was so much better!

(that was sarcasm, yes)

[spooky lynx 73]

Yes! Indeed! USSR was so much better!

(that was sarcasm, yes)

Nobody is better, and 'might is right' rule is used by everybody. The difference is just in the amount depending on available power and resources. Unlike some East European guys say while trying to paint themselves as lambs under constant threat from ze evil Russia.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Nobody is better, and 'might is right' rule is used by everybody. The difference is just in the amount depending on available power and resources. Unlike some East European guys say while trying to paint themselves as lambs under constant threat from ze evil Russia.

Count how many people died from USSR, and that should be more than enough to see who's evil and who isn't.

[Rydygier 1317]

Nobody is better, and 'might is right' rule is used by everybody.

Please, understand finally. It's not about who is better. It's not about pointing with finger the worst one. Here, in the topic "Russia General" it's about plain moral/ethical judgement of said Russia's gov actions. To make analogous judgement for actions of any other country go the the proper topic or make new one.

Do you agree, morality/ethics of the given deed/choice isn't dependent on the other people's moral/ethical choices (morality of one man's deeds isn't/can't be a valid reference point for the assessment of the morality of another man's deeds)? As for me personally, we'll never understood each other with someone, who doesn't agree with that - difference on the most basic a priori assumptions/"dogma" beliefs level.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Rydygier