Russia General

[sudayev 27]

Meanwhile ...

Russia and North Korea declare 2015 a 'year of friendship' (The Telegraph

Ostracised by the international community, North Korea and Russia have declared 2015 a year of bilateral friendship that will be marked by a series of political, economic and cultural exchanges.

"Year of DPRK" has been chosen instead "Year Of Poland" due to Polish cancellation back in August source

--------------------------------------------

first step is to look at own history with some level of criticism - they cant

It seems they can only accept the things by changing the optics and this is not accepting the things as they are but accepting revised truths about the past. They don't agree with post cold-war reality and they see the fall of communism as something that led them to long year impotence, thus blaming other western countries for such position. The decay of the USSR was a huge loss and nowadays Russia wants to seize these lands to regain once lost control and what we see today is going piece by piece.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Sudayev

[mistyronin 1181]

( BBC ) Nemtsov daughter: Putin 'politically' to blame for murder

Zhanna Nemtsova told the BBC she believed the Russian president was "politically" to blame.

"He was the most prominent critic of Putin. He was the most powerful leader of the opposition of Russia," she said.

"After his death the opposition is beheaded and everybody is frightened," she added.

"Now we do not have any other figure so powerful... with so much expertise and experience to confront the officials."

( Al Jazeera ) Nemtsov murder suspect 'coerced into making confession'

- - -

On the other hand, an acquaintance of mine ( a university professor ) had dinner last week with Garry Kasparov. It seems that Kasparov's wife is pretty sure that Garry is gonna be the next one in Putin's list. Even if they have hidden their family and so on, they are still scared to death.

Edited March 12, 2015 by MistyRonin
Orthography

[bono_lv 10]

i am afraid it is trolling , they do think like that, now you see - what we Poles know for decades, for you abroad in the west it was just "unexplained rusophobia of eastern europeans"

nope, many of them think like guys here who know alternative version of history and think of themselves as people who are in danger of whole world that is aiming at them while they were always only freedom makers

level of self criticism in USA after Vietnam, Iraq is present,

level of self criticism in Germany after WW2 is very very high,

level of self blame among some colonial countries (which had colonies) also exists,

level of self criticism in Russia seems to be 0%, level of upside down rewriting history you can observe all time on this forum, so it is not trolling, trolls do thigs for fun, trolls do things they often don't believe just to joke,

Russians are not joking, they do believe USSR was innocent and all minor nations always were attacking poor Russian Empire, poor USSR, now want to attack poor Russia,

i do not know if it is social engineering in their media, subliminal stuff in their media, but i know someone from my family who lives in Russia and although this person lives far away from here, in nothern part of Russia, this person deeply believes that "we must watch out, cause every day Bandera nazis may come and slaughter us if we not stop them" etc. phobias,

some of them maybe even believe that they should attack others "to prevent being attacked" ,

if we have level of nationalism and xenophobia in our countries like 5-10% of society, they may have it in many dozens of voters,

they really do believe in other version of history and they are proves-proof , they cannot accept real history of WW2 and surrounding decades, they simply do not accept , they see things "black and white", themselves as only freedom fighters, and what we seen on this topic - they seen slaves (forced labour) as nazi-cooperators (as some people in the west seen "Polish death camps" because they were located on territory of occupied Poland, this is the same, Russians seeing others as nazis, calling other fascists, while wikipedia says what is fascism and they are closer to definition of fascism than others are )

first step is to look at own history with some level of criticism - they cant

Sadly, but I can confirm this. Most of russian nation has very scewed view on history and outer world, because of their heavy propaganda. They trully believe everybody hates them for no reason. There is NO neighbor country, where native people likes russians, and there are many reasons. First of all, most of Russia neighbor countries was occupied or invaded by them at some point in history or even today. In case of Baltics, Russia deported/killed most of inteligent/rich people to Siberia... After that, they just flooded in russians with military education/thinking. Fast forward 50 years. How do you think it is now? Baltics is independant more than 20 years. Most of russians who live there still don't know language of country where they was born. There are quite large groups who even waits when great Russian empire will come and rescue them from "oppression". Now, what is that "oppression" they are talking about? Well... They think they are robbed of freedom, because their language is not offical in those countries, and as lot of them just refuse to learn native language, they do not have citizenship. To get citizenship, they just need to learn native language, proove it in quite simple exam, that's it. But meanwhile, there is complete freedom to their language use. They can have TV stations, radios, newspapers, everything. The problem is, they really believes, that baltic region is still Russia.

Other reason... Russian attitude to other people in every day basis. They truly believe that russian language IS the language of the world. They have no respect or tolerance to other nations and cultures. Everybody else who is not russian is fascist for them. When you live side by side with them, you can feel it, you can see it in their behavior. Keep in mind - I'm not talking about literally every russian person. But most of them. I personally know really great russian persons and I respect them.

Because russians are blaming everybody else in fascism, let's look at definition of fascism.

"Fascism is a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism."

Let's look at Russia.

governmental system led by a dictator having coplete power - check. Putin is the new czar.

forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism - check. google up how many opposition journalists and politics where imprisoned or killed in last 20 years. Latest event - Boris Nemcov was killed.

regimenting all industry, commerce - check. It's risk to have bussines in Russia. Gooogle what happened to Yukos.

emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism - check. I talked about that above.

[orcinus 121]

Hmm, trending towards stereotyping if not demonisation of the Russian people.

One of my neighbours is a Russian lady in her late 40s or early 50s who married a Brit. Educated, articulate, as nice a person as you might want to meet; and loathes Putin and the KGB/Mafia/oligarchs who have stolen so much of the wealth and resources of the country. She says most of the people she keeps in touch with feel the same, but to speak out is to put oneself in danger; ranging from pressure at work (up to & including the sack) to physical attacks.

So please, don't lump together all Russians (nor any people, come to that) in this way. That merely reinforces Putin's propaganda; I don't believe for a moment that the Putinbots won't be bouncing in glee because of that.

[Sub-Human 10]

More proof Russia is a police state:

(Echo Moscow) http://echo.msk.ru/blog/zoya_svetova/1509816-echo/

In short: a man was arrested by the FSB for apparently 'being a spy'. The whole case seems to be built around him sending a letter to a Swedish company looking for employment. His wife was told not to talk to journalists, otherwise she faces jail for releasing 'government secret' (the same law that got Svetlana Davydova under FSB detention). She also claims that their apartment and car was bugged, as the FSB seemed to know their every movement, dialogue, concern...

[bono_lv 10]

That's why I included this line in my post: "Keep in mind - I'm not talking about literally every russian person. But most of them. I personally know really great russian persons and I respect them."

There is a lot of great russian people everywhere. But much much more of them are aggresors towards other nations. Some of them using just words and symbolism, others brute force.

Orcinus, can you imagine this situation? You are from UK, I'll assume you are native british man. Imagine that your job is directly involved with people. Every day you see clients who lives in your country from their birth, but they speak to you not in english, because it's UK native language, but in foreign. Let's assume You understand them, but you feel very uncomfortable to speak in their language, so you use your english. Sometimes as an aswer to that you are demanded, not asked, but demanded to speak in foreign language by client. And even in very rare occasions you hear from client: "Stop using your dogshit language with me!" And yes, even that is said in that foreign language in very very hostile manner. How woul'd you feel? What would you think about them?

This imaginative story... My mother faces that situation every other day. She works in government structure. And yes, that foreign language in example was russian.

That being said. I still know and believe that there are really good russian people, who knows how to respect other nations and cultures.

[orcinus 121]

@Bono_LV

Actually I didn't have any issue with your post :)

- just didn't want to single out any poster or posters for what might have been taken as an ad hominem attack.

@Sub-Human: exactly as the KGB & the Stasi, etc., behaved in the old USSR/Warsaw pact countries.

.. or the FBI under Hoover...

[Tonci87 163]

Hmm, trending towards stereotyping if not demonisation of the Russian people.

One of my neighbours is a Russian lady in her late 40s or early 50s who married a Brit. Educated, articulate, as nice a person as you might want to meet; and loathes Putin and the KGB/Mafia/oligarchs who have stolen so much of the wealth and resources of the country. She says most of the people she keeps in touch with feel the same, but to speak out is to put oneself in danger; ranging from pressure at work (up to & including the sack) to physical attacks.

So please, don't lump together all Russians (nor any people, come to that) in this way. That merely reinforces Putin's propaganda; I don't believe for a moment that the Putinbots won't be bouncing in glee because of that.

I know what you mean. I believe that MOST of educated Russians are intelligent enough to see and understand what Putin is doing, especially if they have access to foreign news sources. They just don´t speak up because they fear consequences and don´t know who to trust. It´s always the same in such states...

[Sub-Human 10]

The strangest people are pro-Putin Russians living abroad. I knew a family that believed 'Russia is for Russians' yet lived in Europe. Others that I met talked about evil NATO or EU, again living in Europe, including Ukrainians (!) (this was after Crimea). I asked them if they would exchange their Ukrainian passport for a Russian one, but didn't get a coherent reply. The best example, though, is a guy living in London, quite rich, who said that Lukashenko and Putin are the best leaders in the world.

[Sub-Human 10]

Putin has not made a public appearance for the past week. Photo provided by Peskov to show that he is 'well' appears to be dated 4-5 March...

Kremlin also struggles to name a date for the next public meeting.

Vladimir Putin health fears: Kremlin denies rumours President is ill after he cancels second meeting in two days

On Wednesday the Kremlin cancelled a ceremony in Russia to formalise the controversial annexation of South Ossetia – at such short notice that a delegation from the region had already arrived in Moscow, according to Russian media.

The president has not been seen in public since he met with the Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi in Moscow. An image released yesterday by Mr Putin's press team showed a meeting with the regional governor of Karelia that, according to various news agencies, actually took place on 4 March.

[mistyronin 1181]

Probably this should be in the Russian thread.

On the other hand maybe someone managed to send him some of the Polonium he enjoyed sending to his opponents...

Tho he has always protected himself quite well on that side:

( The Telegraph ) Vladimir Putin and his poison tasters: culinary secrets of the world's leaders

The club, whose title plays on the double meaning of the French word "chef" for cook and leader, was founded 35 years ago by Gilles Bragard. On Tuesday, he revealed that President Putin of Russia maintains the medieval monarchs' tradition of having everything he eats tried by someone else for fear of poisoning.

"Tasters still exist but only in the Kremlin, where a doctor checks every dish with the chef," Mr Bragard said ahead of a reception for the chefs hosted by new French President François Hollande.

On the other hand:

( Business Insider ) Putin spokesman: He's not sick — his handshake could 'break your hand'

President Vladimir Putin's spokesman has dismissed rumors circulating on the Internet that the Russian leader is in poor health.

Dmitry Peskov told Ekho Moskvy radio station Thursday that the president was "absolutely" healthy, adding that the president's handshake was still so strong it could "break your hand." Peskov's comment was a reference to the Kremlin's usual response to regular queries about the fragile health of former President Boris Yeltsin, who had heart surgery during his tenure.

---------- Post added at 16:00 ---------- Previous post was at 15:52 ----------

So please, don't lump together all Russians (nor any people, come to that) in this way. That merely reinforces Putin's propaganda; I don't believe for a moment that the Putinbots won't be bouncing in glee because of that.

I agree, I've meet a lot of Russians (some are even good friends) and most of them despise Putin, or at least doubt everything he says.

Russian citizens with a proper education don't buy his lies.

( DNA India ) Former tycoon calls Putin a 'naked king' ruining Russian economy

Khodorkovsky, who once controlled Russia's biggest oil company, YUKOS, said the Russian economy would weaken further and that eventually its weakness would provoke a battle between the powerful clans which dominate Russia. In a message which is likely to anger the 62-year-old Kremlin chief, the former tycoon also called on the West to build ties with opposition groups in expectation of an end to the Putin era. "Tomorrow when the regime changes you will have to build a relationship and you will have very little time,"

Edited March 12, 2015 by MistyRonin

[maddogx 13]

Probably this should be in the Russian thread.

Agreed and merged. Unless the subject of Putin's health becomes a major topic of discussion that merits its own thread, it belongs in here. :)

[mistyronin 1181]

Meanwhile...

Putin's amazingly clever policies benefit the Russian economy....

( Interfax, in Russian ) Cabbage prices increased by 63% since January 1st

As in March 6th, cabbage price has risen by 62.8%, to 22.91 rubles per 1 kg. Onion prices rose by 38.3% to 22.72 rubles, potatoes - by 24%, to 20.01 rubles, carrots - by 23.3%, to 18.99 rubles.

In addition, during this period the apples rose 31.9% to 51.22 rubles.

[orcinus 121]

Meanwhile...

Putin's amazingly clever policies benefit the Russian economy....

( Interfax, in Russian ) Cabbage prices increased by 63% since January 1st

That's terrible. Given the generally low level of most people's salaries/wages, widespread malnutrition looms.

Just like the UK :(

[Sub-Human 10]

Yet another example of Russian authoritarian regime:

http://www.zona.media/story/ivanovo-280/

A 20 year old girl was fined 100,000 rubles for reposting a message titled 'Message from Ukraine to Russia' on the 2nd of March, 2014. She is now considered an extremist, because, according to court, the message 'calls for an overthrow of the constitutional regime in Russia, led by V.V. Putin'. Being on the 6th month of pregnancy, this will make it extremely difficult to receive child support; getting a job almost impossible.

[sudayev 27]

Why it's so quiet in this thread :) A silence before the storm perhaps? Do you track what's going on with Vladimir Putin? Word is he's in bad shape, but regime media says otherwise. He hasn't been seen since last week.

Helicopers flying over Moscow, workers load something onto trucks at Kremlin gates. This stir probably has something to do with Putin's condition.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/rumours-swirl-in-moscow-over-health-of-missing-putin-31063090.html

Alexei Mukhin, Director General of the Centre for Political Information confirmed the rumor, anticipating that “something important†will happen. When prompted about Putin’s health condition, Mukhin neither confirmed confirmed or denied that Putin is currently “incapacitated.â€

Speculations about the palace coup, not to mention his young wife giving birth to Putin's (third baby, word is about two babies with Ms Kabaeva) baby...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/katyasoldak/2015/03/12/can-putins-absence-indicate-a-palace-coup-in-moscow/

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/563703/UPDATE-Russian-President-Vladimir-Putin-baby-rumours-insider-warns-Kremlin-coup

Edited March 13, 2015 by Sudayev

[sudayev 27]

[speculative]

Some shit going on...

Employees of Russian embassy in London are leaving, as world wonders where Putin is

http://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/2yz6f5/employees_of_russian_embassy_in_london_are/

Rumors about supposed death of presidential chief of security Viktor Zolotov

http://kresy24.pl/65417/szef-ochrony-putina-zabity-niejasne-doniesienia-z-moskwy-foto/ (PL)

[mistyronin 1181]

Just to bring a little of Russian humor to the thread:

Check this website ( which could be translated, as where's Putin? tho literally means is Putin dead? ): http://putinumer.com/

Some answers:

No. In Moscow stinks but it's not because of him.

- Look out the window. Are people happy, dancing, have the fireworks started? No? So he is not dead yet.

- No. But they say that he has a sore back.

[sudayev 27]

More trucks in front of Kremlin. Looks like a stage assembly, perhaps for first anniversary of crimean anschlus? Putin attend to the celebrations?

[galek 10]

Putin will communicate with people by tv(maybe 16 april/marth)

[Sub-Human 10]

Meanwhile, Navalny is to have his jail term turned into a real one:

(RIA Novosti) http://ria.ru/incidents/20150313/1052427880.html#ixzz3UGsdvIP3

I guess if a murder of Nemtsov does not ignite any reaction from the people, then the Russian government might as well do however they please.

Edit: This whole story of Putin being ill, of course, could just be another fake by the Kremlin in order to move attention away from Nemtsov's murder and whatever else they have planned for the opposition.

[galek 10]

http://media.wpolityce.pl/cache/ab/9e/ab9eae9dc8315498caa2555fcafdabab.jpg

More trucks in front of Kremlin. Looks like a stage assembly, perhaps for first anniversary of crimean anschlus? Putin attend to the celebrations?

http://news-for.me/2015/03/14/n-tajnoe-stanovitsya-yavnym-izvestno-soderzhimoe-belyh-gruzovikov-vozle-kremlya-foto/

Concert in honor of the annexation of the Crimea

---------- Post added at 22:10 ---------- Previous post was at 22:09 ----------

Meanwhile, Navalny is to have his jail term turned into a real one:

(RIA Novosti) http://ria.ru/incidents/20150313/1052427880.html#ixzz3UGsdvIP3

I guess if a murder of Nemtsov does not ignite any reaction from the people, then the Russian government might as well do however they please.

Edit: This whole story of Putin being ill, of course, could just be another fake by the Kremlin in order to move attention away from Nemtsov's murder and whatever else they have planned for the opposition.

The Navalny already was one real prison term,if I'm not mistaken

[Sub-Human 10]

The Navalny already was one real prison term,if I'm not mistaken

No, it was a suspended sentence.

[galek 10]

I will say as a person who lives in Russia-we have the opposition more talking than doing

For example:

During the elections,opposition parties get money if they got more than a certain percentage of votes

It is said the leader of the LDPR Vladimir Zhirinovsky(That each time threatening to start a nuclear war)

[Sub-Human 10]

It is said the leader of the LDPR Vladimir Zhirinovsky(That each time threatening to start a nuclear war)

Vladimir Zhirinovsky is not the opposition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3t-Aw-mUSY

Meanwhile in Russia-24, a TV report that predicts the future meeting between Russian and Kyrgyzstan head of state.