Bush is pushing too far

[promethius 0]

Press release :

"President George W Bush urged the US Congress to authorize military action against Iraq, warning the United Nations Washington was prepared to go it alone, as Saddam Hussein accused Bush of lying to gain control of Middle East oil.

In a draft resolution entitled "To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq," Bush asked Congress for approval to use "all means he determines to be appropriate including force" and restated his goal of Saddam's ouster which some nations said raised the specter of a second Gulf War.

The United States has been sending heavy equipment and ammunition to Kuwait for several weeks but both American and Kuwaiti officials say it is part of a training program including German and Czech anti-chemical warfare units."

-Reuters

Saddam has said that he will let UN inspectors back in, so what is Bush thinking??

[Renagade 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Saddam has said that he will let UN inspectors back in, so what is Bush thinking?? <span id='postcolor'>

CHEESE!!

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (promethius @ Sep. 20 2002,07:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Saddam has said that he will let UN inspectors back in, so what is Bush thinking??<span id='postcolor'>

That Hussein isn't trustworthy and is stalling. Come to think of it, so is the UN.

[ale2999 0]

well I dont know, but he probably knows stuff that we dont. One thing that many ppl don't know is that US was iraq allied when there was iraq vs iran war. Us furnished iraq with chemical and biological warfare, and who knows, probably even nuclear

[Renagade 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">well I dont know, but he probably knows stuff that we dont<span id='postcolor'>

like the funny mix up with the votes when he got elected ??    

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ale2999 @ Sep. 20 2002,07:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Us furnished iraq with chemical and biological warfare, and who knows, probably even nuclear<span id='postcolor'>

Do you have a reliable source about the US furnishing non-conventional weapons and nuclear materials to Iraq at any time?

[IceFire 0]

I thought that publicly the U.S. was on Iran's side, but secretly were selling weapons to Iraq in order to fuel the war and make money.

That was some scandal that I forget the name of.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That was some scandal that I forget the name of. <span id='postcolor'>

The Iran-Contra investigation?

[IceFire 0]

Yeah, I forgot the name.

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Sep. 20 2002,06:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (promethius @ Sep. 20 2002,07:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Saddam has said that he will let UN inspectors back in, so what is Bush thinking??<span id='postcolor'>

That Hussein isn't trustworthy and is stalling. Come to think of it, so is the UN. <span id='postcolor'>

And just how is the UN untrustworthy?  Because they at least try to follow the ideal that every nation should have a voice, no matter how poor they might be?  Or that world peace is a good idea?  

As a species, we should be moving away from petty disputes based on religion or race, and start trying to find a way to live together and bring a reasonable standard of living to everyone.  

As for Bush, I am starting to think the nothing short of a war will satisfy him.   The nice part is that just like his dad, he's likely on his way to being a one term president.  

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I thought that publicly the U.S. was on Iran's side, but secretly were selling weapons to Iraq in order to fuel the war and make money.

That was some scandal that I forget the name of. <span id='postcolor'>

Actually, the US was against Iran during the Iran/Iraq war, and was at that time bosom buddies with Mr Hussein (Ah, how they forget!. Ole Ollie North sold weapons to the Iranians, which was something expressly forbidden by the US government. He took that money and helped fund the Contras... who were the remnants of a corrupt American backed regime in Central America, who were in opposition to a legally and democratically elected government (Oh, wait, it couldnt have been a real election, all those horrid people at the UN that were sent to see that it was properly handeld were there *rolls eyes*) that happened to buy arms from the USSR.

[ralphwiggum 6]

I'll edit topic name. current one 'spot the mad man' seems a bit accusatory.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Sep. 20 2002,08:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'll edit topic name. current one 'spot the mad man' seems a bit accusatory.<span id='postcolor'>

So what? If someone wants to accuse, let them.

What is this unnecessary, manipulative, big brother meddling about, Ralph?

[ale2999 0]

Warin confirmed, and washington let something out not too long ago about it

[promethius 0]

I think Bush is calling this a "War on Terrorism" and using it to legitimise his personal vendettas.

- I thought the topic name was rather approprite.

*waits tentatively for reactions*

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (promethius @ Sep. 20 2002,08:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">- I thought the topic name was rather approprite.

*waits tentatively for reactions*<span id='postcolor'>

for calling our greatest leader a madman, i hereby punish you to planet of ban, with authority given by The Ape's Council.

plz....let's have less negative threads..

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (promethius @ Sep. 20 2002,09:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think Bush is calling this a "War on Terrorism"<span id='postcolor'>

He is. So?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">and using it to legitimise his personal vendettas.<span id='postcolor'>

I disagree. I think you'll need to polygraph Bush to confirm your theories. I also think Bush will pass the test, unless of course you throw in one of those Jimmy Carteresque "Adultery of The Heart" questions.

[Frizbee 0]

The UN IS trustworthy, they're just completely useless. They don't, or can't enforce the current restrictions placed on Iraq, How could anyone think they will or can enforce any new ones after the weapons inspectors get ousted again, or find WMD's?

Iraq needs a new leader, and needs all WMD's dismantled and destroyed. The world doesn't need an Insane dictator with his finger upon a button.

[LauryThorn 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Frizbee @ Sep. 20 2002,09:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The world doesn't need an Insane dictator with his finger upon a button.<span id='postcolor'>

If that is so, the US/world really needs to get rid of George W.

[Badgerboy 0]

Touche!

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Frizbee @ Sep. 20 2002,08:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The UN IS trustworthy, they're just completely useless. They don't, or can't enforce the current restrictions placed on Iraq, How could anyone think they will or can enforce any new ones after the weapons inspectors get ousted again, or find WMD's?

Iraq needs a new leader, and needs all WMD's dismantled and destroyed. The world doesn't need an Insane dictator with his finger upon a button.<span id='postcolor'>

The amusing thing to me about this situation is that the world is finaly realising that they can't tell America what to do, and it bothers them deeply. Hence the opposition to even the most clearly beneficial acts, such as removing Saddam Hussain.

[second_draw 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ Sep. 20 2002,07:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I thought that publicly the U.S. was on Iran's side, but secretly were selling weapons to Iraq in order to fuel the war and make money.

That was some scandal that I forget the name of. <span id='postcolor'>

Actually, the US was against Iran during the Iran/Iraq war, and was at that time bosom buddies with Mr Hussein (Ah, how they forget!.  Ole Ollie North sold weapons to the Iranians, which was something expressly forbidden by the US government.  He took that money and helped fund the Contras... who were the remnants of a corrupt American backed regime in Central America, who were in opposition to a legally and democratically elected government (Oh, wait, it couldnt have been a real election, all those horrid people at the UN that were sent to see that it was properly handeld were there *rolls eyes*) that happened to buy arms from the USSR.<span id='postcolor'>

The US was on iraq side just because of the public hatred of iran. It wasn't too soon before there was the hijackings from the american embasy. I think the US must have known about sadam's stockpile but they wanted to see iran go down.

[Antichrist 0]

Both Bush and Saddam are totally fuked, but at least Saddam doesn't try to claim that his nation is the greatest in the world

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Antichrist @ Sep. 20 2002,12:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">but at least Saddam doesn't try to claim that his nation is the greatest in the world  <span id='postcolor'>

No, he just claims the rest of us are lesser:

"I know that some of you are torn by the desire and the determination of their peoples on jihad, to fight the enemies of Islam and humanity, the criminal Zionists and their ally, the administration of evil in the "Black House", or in what creeps out from holes in the West which are full of poisonous scorpions which have been stinging Muslims throughout a history which extends for over a thousand years.

We know that some of you are torn between the desire of their peoples and the desire of the U.S and Zionism. But it is high time that we side with Allah without hesitation and without looking for any mantle but His mantle, glorified be His Name, and be in the forefront of those who represent the will of the faithful, but aggrieved, people who stand by right.

- President Saddam Hussein's Message to Islamic Summit, November 12, 2000.

Full text at http://www.uruklink.net/mofa/president/enew46.htm

Get real! The man thinks he's the reincarnation of Nebuchadnezar!

[Sweeper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Sep. 20 2002,11:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Antichrist @ Sep. 20 2002,12:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">but at least Saddam doesn't try to claim that his nation is the greatest in the world  <span id='postcolor'>

No, he just claims the rest of us are lesser:

"I know that some of you are torn by the desire and the determination of their peoples on jihad, to fight the enemies of Islam and humanity, the criminal Zionists and their ally, the administration of evil in the "Black House", or in what creeps out from holes in the West which are full of poisonous scorpions which have been stinging Muslims throughout a history which extends for over a thousand years.

We know that some of you are torn between the desire of their peoples and the desire of the U.S and Zionism. But it is high time that we side with Allah without hesitation and without looking for any mantle but His mantle, glorified be His Name, and be in the forefront of those who represent the will of the faithful, but aggrieved, people who stand by right.

- President Saddam Hussein's Message to Islamic Summit, November 12, 2000.

Full text at http://www.uruklink.net/mofa/president/enew46.htm

Get real! The man thinks he's the reincarnation of Nebuchadnezar!<span id='postcolor'>

If he thinks that great speeches nukes on terrorists will lead to an reelection, he's wrong.

I had expected you Avon to tkae Bush's side here but I won't!

I knew he was trouble since the first time I saw him.

And one more thing moderators are supposed to be neutral.

Give me Hilandor back! Or Placebo, MAYDAY MAYDAY!

But I have heard unconfirmed reports on that US will use nukes!!! if he does Russia and the rest of world will get mad as hell since the radioation will spread.

[Sadico 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Even as U.N. weapons inspectors set a tentative date of October 15 for their return to Iraq, Secretary of State Colin Powell said the United States will block any attempt to send the inspectors back without a new mandate from the U.N. Security Council.

Powell said any new U.N. resolution must make clear that any obstruction of the inspections by Baghdad would result in "hard consequences."

"If the U.N. decides to send inspection teams back in under a new mandate -- anytime, any place, anywhere with no hindrances tolerated -- and Iraq tried to frustrate that, the teams come out. We don't play games at palaces. We don't stand around debating or arguing with them," Powell said Thursday before the House International Relations Committee.

Powell made the comments as President Bush asked Congress for the authority to strike Iraq and repeated his vow to take action if the United Nations does not.

"I don't trust Iraq, and neither should the free world. For 11 years, they have deceived the world," Bush told reporters as his draft resolution made the rounds on Capitol Hill -- to a decidedly mixed reception.

Many rank-and-file Democrats questioned what they see as Bush's unilateral approach to dealing with Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, with one liberal lawmaker saying the resolution's language could lead to a "potential World War III." (Full story)

The proposed White House resolution submitted to Congress would give Bush the authority to use "all means that he determines to be appropriate, including force, in order to enforce the United Nations Security Council resolutions, defend the national security interests of the United States against the threat posed by Iraq and restore international peace and security in the region."

The president also said the U.N. Security Council needs to pass a resolution outlining what Iraq must do to comply with earlier resolutions requiring its disarmament.

"For the sake of peace, for the sake of freedom for our country, if the United Nations will not act, the United States and our friends will," Bush said Thursday at the Republican Governors Association.

"We owe it to our children, we owe it to our grandchildren, to make sure that the dictator in Iraq never threatens our country, or our children, or our children's children with the world's worst weapons," he said.

Congress must support Bush resolution, Powell says

With the Bush administration ratcheting up the pressure for action against Iraq, Powell's comments were especially noteworthy. Often considered the least hawkish within the administration, Powell acknowledged he prides himself on being the "reluctant warrior," but he was emphatic that Congress must support the Bush resolution.

"A lukewarm, weak, eviscerated resolution coming out of the Congress would not serve my diplomatic purposes," Powell said.

"War should always be a last resort, but the threat of war has to be there. And when a decision is made to fight a war, it's also well known that I believe in doing it decisively and doing it in a way that achieves a political purpose."

The general, who was the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the 1991 Persian Gulf War, added: "You never plan a campaign and think it's going to be a cakewalk. If you've got the force, use it."

"If the United Nations will not act, the United States and our friends will," Bush said Thursday.

At the United Nations, a weapons inspections document was circulated during a closed-door Security Council meeting, spelling out that an advance team of U.N. weapons inspectors is to return to Iraq on Oct. 15, barring any further delays.

That will be the first time inspectors will have entered Iraq since December 1998, when they pulled out ahead of joint U.S.-British airstrikes.

Hans Blix, the chief weapons inspector, appeared before the 15-nation Security Council Thursday afternoon to brief them on the latest developments.

Afterward, Blix did not mention the October 15 date but did say he hopes to get an advance team into Iraq "as soon as possible" to review selected sites "we think are interesting."

"We will go there with an advance team, and we will gradually build up the capacity," Blix told reporters.

Asked what sites would be searched first, he said, "I am not going to tell neither you nor the Iraqis."

Earlier, Iraqi President Saddam Hussein issued a statement, which was read by Iraqi Foreign Minister Naji Sabri to the U.N. General Assembly, in which he denied Iraq has weapons of mass destruction.

"Iraq is totally clear of all nuclear, chemical and biological weapons," the message said. "If anyone amongst you still worries that the fabrications announced by American officials about Iraq may possibly be true, our country is ready to receive any experts, accompanied by politicians from any one of your countries." (Full story)

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told a congressional committee that Iraq is "jerking the U.N. around."

Powell admitted he was surprised by the quick offer by the Iraqis for the weapons inspectors to return. He said there is no doubt the offer directly stems from Bush's call last week to the U.N. General Assembly last week to enforce its resolutions.

"After the president gave his speech last Thursday," he said, "the phone lines to Baghdad lit up. Lots of people were calling and saying, 'They are serious. It's show time.'"

Powell continued: "For us not to continue that pressure by the threat of force, by the consequences of failure to act on the part of the Iraqi regime, I think it would be very unfortunate."

CNN White House correspondents John King and Kelly Wallace contributed to this report.

<span id='postcolor'>