Legal violations by A3L: Arma 3 life

[deltagamer 612]

Can we limit the whole thread down now to just fresh evidence etc instead of all the unnecessary comments? There is no point arguing from here as it is in the hands of BIS and the game companies.

Evidence really shouldn't be posted publicly on this thread for the likes of A3L to see, as they make the necessary changes on their website to try and disprove our accusations.

MattLightfoot specifically asked for any evidence to be sent via his Email. Now I'm not speaking on Matt's behalf but if hes asking for evidence doesn't that mean - even if they can't right now, that they are looking for the sufficient way to get A3L taken down?

So please send any evidence to his Email.

Now you guys give me that in a coherent, complete, fact based (with evidence that cannot be questioned), document to matt.lightfoot@bistudio.com and I'll do everything I possibly can, if they are breaking the EULA.

[cofi0276 1]

MattLightfoot specifically asked for any evidence to be sent via his Email. Now I'm not speaking on Matt's behalf but if hes asking for evidence doesn't that mean - even if they can't right now, that they are looking for the sufficient way to get A3L taken down?

Even if you give Bohemia evidence they wont do anything about it, it was already said that there's a ton of servers breaking EULA and Bohemia isn't doing anything.

[instagoat 133]

Even if you give Bohemia evidence they wont do anything about it, it was already said that there's a ton of servers breaking EULA and Bohemia isn't doing anything.

Because it is economical nonsense to do anything about small time violators like this. There are too many, they're all over the world and the legal expenses to get them would be monumental compared to the returns. And those that are taken down will be quickly replaced by more scriptkiddies, which in the end does not just alleviate the situation but also loads BI down with tons of legal expenses.

I am not just talking about paying the lawyer, but allocating internal time and resources to an unwinnable battle when there are potentially much bigger fish to fry.

Further, the content being abused is not made by BI, so there's nothing they can go to court over anyway. As for the EULA violations, again, small fish by comparison.

[deltagamer 612]

Even if you give Bohemia evidence they wont do anything about it, it was already said that there's a ton of servers breaking EULA and Bohemia isn't doing anything.

I know they probably won't, but it has to be a much better way than just posting it publicly so A3L can see it and cover their tracks. Clearly they have been monitoring this thread and removing anything from their website when we post stuff(which is sad in its own way) but what else can we actually do?

[nodunit 397]

So lets give things time to simmer and until then take this as a lesson that we can't trust people to know what the license means by "no commercializing" and simply jump straight to slapping

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/ on our content.

[cofi0276 1]

Because it is economical nonsense to do anything about small time violators like this. There are too many, they're all over the world and the legal expenses to get them would be monumental compared to the returns. And those that are taken down will be quickly replaced by more scriptkiddies, which in the end does not just alleviate the situation but also loads BI down with tons of legal expenses.

I am not just talking about paying the lawyer, but allocating internal time and resources to an unwinnable battle when there are potentially much bigger fish to fry.

There is a much easier way to deal with people breaking EULA, just block them with Battleye. Bohemia is hiring them, they can use them. They can use the same in DayZ when people abuse admin powers on public servers.

[Shizweak 1]

There is a much easier way to deal with people breaking EULA, just block them with Battleye. Bohemia is hiring them, they can use them. They can use the same in DayZ when people abuse admin powers on public servers.

Then they'll probably just disable battleye on the server, not much of a big deal when you have a closed/white-listed community.

For all those supporting A3L and their viewpoint THIS is the real damage done here. How you fail to see the effect this will cause for Arma modding in the future is beyond me...

Exactly, hit the nail on the head.

I can't even fathom that anyone would even support A3L after 'Caiden' ends his final comment here with telling someone to go kill themselves. Absolutely atrocious.

[amatt 10]

I wrote to you over a week ago and you gave me the following response:

Originally Posted by AMatt

It's nice to see that finally, for the first time, someone from the A3L team has acted in a mature manner and has had the decency to converse with many concerned members of the community. I'd like to ask you this:

Do you honestly condone the behaviour and actions of the A3L team? Stealing content creators work without any sort of acknowledgement or accreditation is completely unethical and should not be acceptable. The intentions of the A3L team have been made very clear and show a complete lack or regard for this community or even their own players. If the answer is no, then I see no reason why you still offer your services to the team when your you disagree with their (lack of?) morals.

Originally Posted by mbaxter

AMatt,

I don't condone utilizing framework from Tonic if he doesn't want to give them permission to use it. But that is not my call to make or force them to switch. Stealing content from creators other than Tonic I don't see that A3L has done other than speculation of being a commercial entity and using publicly released modpacks which by their licenses were able to use. Now they should be credited and that will be fixed or atleast recommended to do from my end. There has never been the intention to be disrespectful to this community but all I've seen in prior posts is wild accusations and personal attacks and of course someone young as Caiden is going to act the way he did in his responses.

Now the reason I do stay in A3L is for the sole fact that there is quite a lot of potential to be a great mod for not only our community but others should that day come to release the mod information publicly rather than select individuals hacking into the server and post their own communities. I feel that I can try and reason with the team and put them on a track to be totally compliant and be over this huge debate of stealing and etc. The true intention was to never stay on Tonic's version for ever but to design while we continue working with Steaker that never left may I add finish his framework. That is the goal I am trying to reach and why I am taking the time out of my life to act as a mediator of this whole situation.

The legality of the issue is not something I wish to discuss at this point, as I don't know enough about licensing and other methods of securing work; rather, I'd like to concentrate on the ethical concerns raised.

It has now been over a week, and correct me if I'm wrong, but an update has been pushed to your servers containing new features; however still no accreditation has been provided to any of the original addon creators for which your server uses.

Either you're not pushing for any accreditation to be given, or the Project Leads do not value your suggestions enough to heed the advice; in which case I'm really struggling to provide reasons why you would continue to back this project.

Understand that this is not a personal attack, however I don't see how you can expect to have any credibility after the many claims you have given to be making a difference, and yet we see none, only to see you still act in defence.

Edited November 13, 2014 by AMatt
Grammatical change

[Dr_Defimus 10]

Whitelist only worke with batteleye because with out you dont know who ist who on the server. And whitelist only after the playernames will surely work grate ....

[GSP167 1]

Whitelist only worke with batteleye because with out you dont know who ist who on the server. And whitelist only after the playernames will surely work grate ....

You don't need BattlEye to set up whitelists, it can easily be set up with .sqf scripts

[Mandems 10]

A message on PsiSyndicates video - Life mod drama discussion

Posted by: Zuthara Kemble

"Were do i report them?Im just asking because i had talked with the owner and i said i would like to buy some in game items...... and he said ok... im 14 and he tried to charge me 50 dollars for 1 car and 2 TEMP guns... I then said Hey dude you know this isn't allowed right? I then asked Hey do you have perm for all you addons? he oringaly said Yes i do... Then he started lying saying Yes.....well no.....Some of them i don't but i put them in anyways then he said (They wont do Crap) Um....... IF there was any way i could report this to Arma 3. On steam Or teampspeak or somthing please tell me...... "

[GSP167 1]

A message on PsiSyndicates video - Life mod drama discussion

Posted by: Zuthara Kemble

"Were do i report them?Im just asking because i had talked with the owner and i said i would like to buy some in game items...... and he said ok... im 14 and he tried to charge me 50 dollars for 1 car and 2 TEMP guns... I then said Hey dude you know this isn't allowed right? I then asked Hey do you have perm for all you addons? he oringaly said Yes i do... Then he started lying saying Yes.....well no.....Some of them i don't but i put them in anyways then he said (They wont do Crap) Um....... IF there was any way i could report this to Arma 3. On steam Or teampspeak or somthing please tell me...... "

I contacted him, waiting for his reply.

[Mandems 10]

I contacted him, waiting for his reply.

Nice one! Hopefully others will come forward with evidence that they are indeed paying to play the game.

[Veritas 10]

A message on PsiSyndicates video - Life mod drama discussion

Posted by: Zuthara Kemble

"Were do i report them?Im just asking because i had talked with the owner and i said i would like to buy some in game items...... and he said ok... im 14 and he tried to charge me 50 dollars for 1 car and 2 TEMP guns... I then said Hey dude you know this isn't allowed right? I then asked Hey do you have perm for all you addons? he oringaly said Yes i do... Then he started lying saying Yes.....well no.....Some of them i don't but i put them in anyways then he said (They wont do Crap) Um....... IF there was any way i could report this to Arma 3. On steam Or teampspeak or somthing please tell me...... "

Disregard this "evidence". As stated on server rules you must be 16+ to play, and this is obviously fake. Bringing YouTube troll comments as evidence will not help your cause. Bohemia has made their statement and said this issue is resolved.

[GSP167 1]

Disregard this "evidence". As stated on server rules you must be 16+ to play, and this is obviously fake. Bringing YouTube troll comments as evidence will not help your cause. Bohemia has made their statement and said this issue is resolved.

This will not be disregarded as said individual will provide evidence of these allegations.

EDIT: What a weak argument this is! "This isn't valid because he says he's 14 and the server rule says you have to be 16! He well could have said he was 16 to the admins, it's not like they're going to do a background check on him to see if he's actually 16, especially if he donated paid a fee to A3L, and of course the issue is resolved. ;)

Edited November 14, 2014 by GSP167

[Mandems 10]

Im guessing you are part of the A3L crew.....you are done for, give up, shut it down, tell your mum to get ready to sell her house and car for your greed.

[maddogx 13]

Similar to the Citylife 3 thread, there is now a zero tolerance policy on trolling / flamebaiting in this thread. Anyone who can't keep it sensible and factual will find themselves unable to post here.

[eggbeast 3673]

On Psy's youtube page which has had a staggering 50,000 views in the past 36 hours, I added a comment about the terms of service, and the potential to charge-back a donation fee made to benefit from an expedited access service to a mod containing provable illegal content.

Please see what you think of it and perhaps link it to anyone who may benefit from the notion.

[maddogx 13]

Tangent removed. I'm going to say this one last time before the infractions come a rollin': keep it civil.

I don't care which view point you support, but any kind of childish or off-topic / derailing / trolling posts will be removed and incur an infraction + thread-ban. Responses to such posts may have the same consequences.

If you see such posts, please only report them; do not respond.

Edited November 14, 2014 by MadDogX

[gimmiallyourbeer 10]

okey i am sorry . i prob. tok it a little to far, i am sorry, it was just regarding the post on page 94, that some dude on a youtube vid. said. and so on, what is written there is a false statment,

---------- Post added at 10:38 ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 ----------

after reading some other posts i found this and i feel like this is a valid post here also.

The more I think on the city mod the more I wonder, is this really worth bothering ourselves over.

Lets face it, we'd rather be tinkering in our workshops that dealing with this mess. If these communities want to sell stolen assets from other games fine, that is their and the IP owners business, we can notify the owners but there is no point in pursuing it further really. We do nothing but waste our own time in hunting down evidence for all the stolen content everyone has ever done...here on our own little forums with explicit rules it is different, but going out there to actively hunt down mods is another thing.

Fact is people who take content from other games are as old as OFP itself, its going to happen wether we like it or not, and it is not our duty to waste our time confronting them with it.

This all started because of Arma 3 life but I have to wonder what the agenda REALLY is, why is A3life getting such a huge response when something like this is more "meh" and its simple.

It is the same reason we go on manhunts for people that take the works of others without any credit on these forums, because its the same thing...they took content without bothering to ask, something as simple as a quick PM that could have stopped all of this from the start. It exploded, content multiplied, so many of us began to feel uncomfortable or threatened.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to defend your work regardless of what nick names you will be called for it, regardless of it being released on the internet, but this does not fall into that case, Asylum and CL3 may have questionable systems set up via their donations. However, if BI says its alright then fine, technicly they have said the same about A3L right now but we still press on, why? Clearly there is more to it than simple "monetization", wether we care to admit it or not.

written by NodUnit

Edited November 14, 2014 by gimmiallyourbeer

[ZertyKchan 14]

I am following this thread since the beginning and I still don't have understood some points in it.

First what do you expect BIS to do? The ToS of ArmA III can be vague enough to be considered both broken and not. Since it is only BiS choice to enforce it and how, why would they not?

One answer to that last question can be answered by the fact that BiS is ultimately a company, which need to generate benefits. Like it or not, that A3L community is large enough to be considered as a customer base by its own. Behind every player of A3L, a game was bought. If BiS do something that endanger that customer base, less revenue will be generated with the release of a DLC or a new game. The same kind of reasoning can be done with the players that are against A3L (for good reason IMO). So in order to maximize the future revenue of the company, the worst thing to do is to take radical actions that could shrink one of the customer base.

Now about the modding community, IMO this community is really important to BiS since it generates all the level design that is not done by BIS. The community developers basically answer at minimal costs the needs of its customer base. Since the Arma engine is really simple to apprehend and since that same engine is open enough, a modding community will always emerge even if part of that community is leaving (I started codding SQf on Arma 3 alpha, and I am proud to say that i was not there when OFP was released :) )

So before going all witch hunt, It would be nice to take the time to think of what can be / cannot be / will be done , while raising the common awareness of licencing in arma and about what you can(not) do with an addon that is not your own (And of course behave like adults, while keeping it civil :))

And please excuse my french and my bad English.

Edited November 14, 2014 by ZertyKchan

[Valken 622]

Wouldn't it be easier to just host fully FREE public A3L servers? That would placate the user base who wants to play this mod yet resolve the pay to play issue? All the content is free anyways.

[eggbeast 3673]

check the summary zertykchan - it may help to explain the position of the mod community who want A3L stopped

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?184772-Legal-violations-by-A3L-Arma-3-life&p=2815104&viewfull=1#post2815104

if you would like anything explained in there you could send me a PM

salut

[mistyronin 1181]

My 2 cents on the subject:

First, why there are some people that register to this forums just to support A3L and insult others?

Second, I see mainly two illegal things A3L may be doing. One is to make profit with forced donations, which is not allowed by A3 BI ToS, which is entirely a BI issue. The other is that they make profit with other people's mods and games models, which is completely against different laws and any mod maker or game company can and should take legal actions.

Third, users that love other mods and games should report to their owners when they see someone else profiting illegaly from them. As that may completely destroy mods or games. In the same way you report a robbery to police when you see one in the street.

[deltagamer 612]

First, why there are some people that register to this forums just to support A3L and insult others?

It's most likely because they have paid for access to the mod and are too afraid to lose it.