Legal violations by A3L: Arma 3 life

[nodunit 397]

If content creators do not want their work to be used by a popular Community, then why provide their content for the ARMA community to play for free?? - If you don't want your content to be used, don't make the content or restrict the access, period.

Because most content creators don't anticipate people gaining revenue one way or another by extension of their content. And I can garuntee you that after this we are going to be seeing a lot of addons falling under a license that restricts any use in a mod/addon unless the author is contacted. Not just something you cannot modify, not just something that can be used as long as there is no commercial gain, but literal "No allowance".

[SimonBondRSA 10]

In your opinion, how well is that working in this situation?

I don't know what you're asking here??

But A3L is not breaching any Terms of Use mod wise to the best of my knowledge - other than Tonic's Altis Life Framework which has already been admitted and is in the process of being phased out as we speak.

My only argument here is this: If a mod creator does not accept that if he created a FREE mod to be used by the ARMA community, and it was used in a successful community that may be generating income unintentionally other than to cover their costs, why create content to be used in the first place?

[eggbeast 3684]

generating income unintentionally

I have to take issue with this.

[kiory 405]

I have to take issue with this.

Yup, they knew exactly what they were doing, there is nothing unintentional about this.

[fluttershy 2]

I don't know what you're asking here??

But A3L is not breaching any Terms of Use mod wise to the best of my knowledge - other than Tonic's Altis Life Framework which has already been admitted and is in the process of being phased out as we speak.

My only argument here is this: If a mod creator does not accept that if he created a FREE mod to be used by the ARMA community, and it was used in a successful community that may be generating income unintentionally other than to cover their costs, why create content to be used in the first place?

Because normal the arma community is a great bunch of people that really appreciate the work of the dedicated modding teams and members, they hand out word of gratitude, help find bugs, some even come up with solutions for problems the creators were having. Oh and the Credit them where ever they go. "Wow these vehicles looks awesome" "Yeah they are from XYZ Pack" and so on and so forth. Until this point, strict licenses that make the addon almost inacessable were not needed as the ammount of people trying to profit from it were so megerly small that no one noticed. I am saying profit not in a financial way, so you can't reply with the same mind numbing reply that must have been handed out as bumperstickers on the a3l server.

Because without all the stolen content, no one would play A3L, no one would Donate to A3L and it would have never exsisted in the first place (god i wish i would live in that paralel universe)

[KingAlmond 10]

I don't know what you're asking here??

But A3L is not breaching any Terms of Use mod wise to the best of my knowledge - other than Tonic's Altis Life Framework which has already been admitted and is in the process of being phased out as we speak.

My only argument here is this: If a mod creator does not accept that if he created a FREE mod to be used by the ARMA community, and it was used in a successful community that may be generating income unintentionally other than to cover their costs, why create content to be used in the first place?

They are using this: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?167618-RH-M4-M16-pack&highlight=RobertHammer ---- RH's terms of use basically ---> http://gyazo.com/a3e92a136d03f1df5669888366e85c3f

Do not redistribute without perm--isn't that what they did by putting it on their server? Plus they breached EULA and made $$, before BI requested it to be changed, they admitted this themselves so it breaks the monetary gains aspect as well.

Go here: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?184772-Legal-violations-by-A3L-Arma-3-life&p=2815104&viewfull=1#post2815104 scroll down to part C.

Self explanatory. Just one example.

[CaptainObvious 95]

I don't know what you're asking here??

But A3L is not breaching any Terms of Use mod wise to the best of my knowledge - other than Tonic's Altis Life Framework which has already been admitted and is in the process of being phased out as we speak.

My only argument here is this: If a mod creator does not accept that if he created a FREE mod to be used by the ARMA community, and it was used in a successful community that may be generating income unintentionally other than to cover their costs, why create content to be used in the first place?

If the author directly asks the A3L team to remove their content from A3L but basically gets told to fuck off, the only way to prevent unwanted usage would be not to release the content at all, is that what you suggest the modders to do?

Because that's ... I don't even know, laughable.

[janus0104 3]

If a mod creator does not accept that if he created a FREE mod to be used by the ARMA community[...]

1.) Many developers do not want their mods associated with derivative mods they don't see as "compatible with their creative vision". This is why there even is such a thing as copyrights, so artists can protect their work from being used for something they don't want to be a part of.

2.) Free to download does not mean it's allowed to modify it or distribute derivative works without permission - that is to say, you can't distribute a mod pack that involves a mod with such a license clause. Even if permission is granted under terms, e.g. a simple "sure, as long as you stick to the licenses, you can INCLUDE my mod in your pack", that does not include modification. Even if permission to modify were given, that permission can be revoked at any point where the artist in question feels his work is taking damages of any nature.

[StevenW129 10]

When we added the mod files from Mr. Hammer, they were released on Armaholic under the disclaimer to not edit, redistribute or use for commercial gain. We, obviously, do not breach any of these disclaimers, so we are able to use this pack.

It is very obvious from this quote taken directly from his newest post regarding the situation that Zannaza does not understand what redistribution is. Sometimes I wonder...

[eggbeast 3684]

+1 janus

also for the new guys - you may have missed this bit of educational awareness raising.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?184772-Legal-violations-by-A3L-Arma-3-life&p=2818258&viewfull=1#post2818258

[Tyl3r99 41]

summary of whats happened so far??? i dont fancy flicking through 80+ pages :)

from what i gather... A3L are getting away with it..

[JonSnu 10]

+1 janus

also for the new guys - you may have missed this bit of educational awareness raising.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?184772-Legal-violations-by-A3L-Arma-3-life&p=2818258&viewfull=1#post2818258

The lack of evidence is indeed quite astonishing (I understand that you might be keeping it to the involved parties and it is the right and smart thing to do). The only individuals who might have suffered damage from A3L activity is some addon makers and the models copyright owners and is up to them to make justice if they have the tools and evidence to go forward with it.

The outcome regarding big companies is quite obvious... Now the addon developers have to organize themselves and try to enforce their licenses by legal means and try to stay away from the drama being generated by all this allegations that lack proof. They probably are aware and have the proof their license is being breached and they need to act. Riding a mob won't bring them a good result out of this.

[SimonBondRSA 10]

Because normal the arma community is a great bunch of people that really appreciate the work of the dedicated modding teams and members, they hand out word of gratitude, help find bugs, some even come up with solutions for problems the creators were having. Oh and the Credit them where ever they go. "Wow these vehicles looks awesome" "Yeah they are from XYZ Pack" and so on and so forth. Until this point, strict licenses that make the addon almost inacessable were not needed as the ammount of people trying to profit from it were so megerly small that no one noticed. I am saying profit not in a financial way, so you can't reply with the same mind numbing reply that must have been handed out as bumperstickers on the a3l server.

Because without all the stolen content, no one would play A3L, no one would Donate to A3L and it would have never exsisted in the first place (god i wish i would live in that paralel universe)

I will from here onwards speak only from personal opinion, please do not quote me as an allegory for any A3L members or their associates:

I joined A3L way back when no external content other than TFAR was being used to the best of my knowledge, and the basic amount of custom vehicles and skins had all been made by the A3L team - I personally would still want to play even if other content was used ( I say used and not stolen very intentionally ). I would love to know though, have you ever played on an A3L server? I feel that comment on a situation by complete outside perspective is somewhat misguided and I am not saying that everything that A3L is doing is correct, by many means they are not but I am also not going to attack them because some of their work and creditation is an icon for a lot of the ArmA community.

What I am also saying is, if a content creator asks for their content to be removed from a community then fine, if I were to run said community I would remove it ASAP - however, if in the Terms of Use of any content it says that the creator cannot revoke this right of use, and it was either essential or very much desired, then I would adhere to the license and follow what I and the 1000's of users depending on this content wanted.

If you take issue with A3L unintetionally generating more income than required to host servers, then please take a look at other communities that earn vast amounts through "Donations" where they restrict access to weapons, vehicles and ArmA base content without hesitation, where A3L does none of those things. Yes - there was a requirement of entry by payment of $30 but that has since been dealt with by BI themselves and completely nullified at A3L. The expedited application donation is a CHOICE by users to speed up a process, no one is being forced to pay a cent, as I have not and can play exactly the same as any other user that decides to play.

[deltagamer 612]

Because normal the arma community is a great bunch of people that really appreciate the work of the dedicated modding teams and members

Agreed, the ArmA community is one of the best gaming communities out there. Maybe some people that come here supporting A3:L don't understand why everyone is trying so hard to protect the community we all cherish. Both Bohemia and Modders helped get the franchise where it is today, even most people that work at Bohemia came from modding backgrounds. When you put so much effort into something you enjoy then you have every justified reason to defend it. The amount of time the ArmA community has been around for out weights the Life community by so much - round about 10 years.

[slatts 1978]

I don't make mods so people can't use them. But I still have a right to limit who uses it. If I tell a community to stop using my mod for X reason that's my right. If you disregard my request and then tell us to "kill ourselves". That's where we have a problem.

[JonSnu 10]

Agreed, the ArmA community is one of the best gaming communities out there. Maybe some people that come here supporting A3:L don't understand why everyone is trying so hard to protect the community we all cherish. Both Bohemia and Modders helped get the franchise where it is today, even most people that work at Bohemia came from modding backgrounds. When you put so much effort into something you enjoy then you have every justified reason to defend it. The amount of time the ArmA community has been around for out weights this "Life" community by so much - round about 10 years.

We all loves Arma that is the reason why we play it and you can bet the community is a big part of it.

Altough A3L is breaching addon makers licenses and not being completely transparent regarding their donations, there is many, many others who do the same but for an unknown reason some users are making this a personal war against A3L and trying to keep all the spotlights centered in them, when this action will create tensions within the community since the other servers/communities under the same circumstances will just keep laughing in the distance.

[SimonBondRSA 10]

Agreed, the ArmA community is one of the best gaming communities out there. Maybe some people that come here supporting A3:L don't understand why everyone is trying so hard to protect the community we all cherish. Both Bohemia and Modders helped get the franchise where it is today, even most people that work at Bohemia came from modding backgrounds. When you put so much effort into something you enjoy then you have every justified reason to defend it. The amount of time the ArmA community has been around for out weights the Life community by so much - round about 10 years.

delta, I have nothing against that and also wish to cherish the modding community that helps ArmA thrive so well. Trust me, I do not only play Arma for A3L, but on many other servers and parts of very different communities, but I feel that the approach to this situation is wrongly based and has been made into something it should never have become - a flame war.

I only want the best for the ArmA community, but I do not see how attacking a successful portion of the Arma playerbase is going to help anyone? Content creators are not going to make money off of their mods by definition - so if another community does so to cover Management and Overhead costs then why not let them? I understand that if a content creator does not like how their mod(s) are being used or implemented, then by all means they have every right to make sure they are not - but these creators also need to understand that if they want to define who uses their mod(s) and how they are used, then a proper license needs to be created BEFORE release of said content.

I am on the side of the ArmA community in cherishing modmakers and content creators but they also need to protect themselves or define explicitly beforehand how they want their stuff to be used, otherwise the afterthought argument of "Oh no, someone is using my content in a successful way, how did I not capitalise on that before??" is invalid and negligent.

[StevenW129 10]

We all loves Arma that is the reason why we play it and you can bet the community is a big part of it.

Altough A3L is breaching addon makers licenses and not being completely transparent regarding their donations, there is many, many others who do the same but for an unknown reason some users are making this a personal war against A3L and trying to keep all the spotlights centered in them, when this action will create tensions within the community since the other servers/communities under the same circumstances will just keep laughing in the distance.

Hardly a personal war at all. The main point that me and others are trying to put across is the commercialization of other authors content and the mass amount of money that was made off of the other authors content. We have a solid evidence report that has been submitted to whom it concerns and then it goes from there and each company involved will decide how they will go about it.

I notice you have only signed up today so I suggest you do not argue against people who have evidenced their findings and that it is not an arguable point. Just a tip.

Anyway I don't see the point in reiterating points that have been mentioned over and over so lets not waste our time on the same old stuff.

[janus0104 3]

I am on the side of the ArmA community in cherishing modmakers and content creators but they also need to protect themselves or define explicitly beforehand how they want their stuff to be used, otherwise the afterthought argument of "Oh no, someone is using my content in a successful way, how did I not capitalise on that before??" is invalid and negligent.

So basically you're saying all the licenses quoted in this thread and already used when publishing addons - addon makers actually do look at licenses before they publish stuff -, aswell as plain old federal and international copyright laws, are null and void because ... why?

Many others who do the same but for an unknown reason some users are making this a personal war against A3L.

Feel free to list other mod teams that abuse licenses and copyrights at similar scale ;)

Edited November 13, 2014 by janus0104

[nodunit 397]

The issue at its core came from behavior. The problem itself isn't purely the fact that the A3L team used content from other community creators, it is that they did so without permission, ignored the requests to remove it, and then the supposed leader behaved in a manner that..well...I think that is honestly what lit the spark. I say this because its not the first time the community has gone a manhunt. In the past there have been users who stole things from other games and one another, the response was that the community came down on them hard, sometimes even resulting in a ban but this was mostly down to that persons behavior.

[ArmaPilot 1]

Agreed, the ArmA community is one of the best gaming communities out there. Maybe some people that come here supporting A3:L don't understand why everyone is trying so hard to protect the community we all cherish. Both Bohemia and Modders helped get the franchise where it is today, even most people that work at Bohemia came from modding backgrounds. When you put so much effort into something you enjoy then you have every justified reason to defend it. The amount of time the ArmA community has been around for out weights the Life community by so much - round about 10 years.

I agree. People that come here disrespecting people do not understand how great this community is. There is few games that have the devs, staff and addon creators work together? You can come onto the forums and get support from game devs, report bugs, have input that is actually considered or talk to them on skype. How awesome is that? You can't just go hit up the call of duty developers on the forums or Skype. If all these addon creators couldn't get support from people who made the tools, then we wouldn't have what we do now.

[SimonBondRSA 10]

So basically you're saying all the licenses quoted in this thread and already used when publishing addons - addon makers actually do look at licenses before they publish stuff -, aswell as plain old federal and international copyright laws, are null and void because ... why?

I didn't say that in any way...

What I am saying is that if a license agreement is breached - fire away. If a license agreement does not outline explicitly what the content creator intends then they cannot revoke the user's rights unless they change their license agreement!

Any federal or international copyright laws that were broken and are backed with evidence have every right to have action taken against, but I am speaking about the content where the creator is simply "Unhappy" about where it is being used because they did not outline a Restricted access agreement beforehand, that is all.

My argument does not support any illegal use or negligence of licensing, but only addresses negligence on the license holder's part - to clarify.

[raspu86 92]

Right now my willingness to do anything anymore for Arma and make it public is near zero. I'd really like to hear an official statement from Bohemia regarding this issue...

[JonSnu 10]

Hardly a personal war at all. The main point that me and others are trying to put across is the commercialization of other authors content and the mass amount of money that was made off of the other authors content. We have a solid evidence report that has been submitted to whom it concerns and then it goes from there and each company involved will decide how they will go about it.

I notice you have only signed up today so I suggest you do not argue against people who have evidenced their findings and that it is not an arguable point. Just a tip.

Anyway I don't see the point in reiterating points that have been mentioned over and over so lets not waste our time on the same old stuff.

I have been following this thread since the first day, but only decided to apply this day because the misinformation going on here is just unbearable and you don't need to be aggressive towards just because I decided to take no sides.

The findings you mentioned, at least the ones present in this thread are just allegations and opinions that people are trying to pass as facts, and rest assured I would argue if the proof was crystal clear.

If there rock solid proof the damaged companies such as Microsoft and other companies would have already approached A3L, something that has not happened since the models are still being used in the game and same goes for Bohemia. All I see is a circular argument, a dog chasing is tail that somewhat ended up in ~90 pages.

People are clearly regurgitating the same statements over and over and that will help no one since the motivations behind it are just to feed the drama. It is just being hypocritical when people say this is to protect Arma community when it just enlarging the flame war currently going on. If you find proof provide it to the involved parties and thats it, the lack of morals from the community it is not in doubt but some still think it is a point worth arguing.

[deltagamer 612]

Altough A3L is breaching addon makers licenses and not being completely transparent regarding their donations, there is many, many others who do the same but for an unknown reason some users are making this a personal war against A3L and trying to keep all the spotlights centered in them

"Other people are doing the same, why aren't they getting the same response A3L is?" Stuff like that seems to get mentioned a lot from both people defending A3L and the People who are running it.

Just because other people are doing it, it does not in anyway make it just. You have to understand that a part of the ArmA community has been hit hard by the actions of A3L. Most likely a lot of modders, scripters etc, people that have a large influence in the community will have to make numerous changes so that things like this do not happen in the future. In all fairness have your life community but do it in a way that it doesn't hurt the rest of us.

Also we can always make another thread to directly focus on the problems that other servers are causing by doing the same principle as A3L - making money etc. Use the manpower we have to take action in a similar fashion to what is being shown here.

Edited November 13, 2014 by deltagamer