So, AI can still see through completely obscuring grass and shoot at the player.

[eggbeast 3673]

it's quite realistic that once you fire at the AI, they know roughly where to shoot. tweaking their accuracy in parameters means you can survive long enough to dash into cover, assuming you did not lay in a wide-open plain to fire from, which would be tactical suicide.

the worst thing that could happen would be to add in a blindfold system for AI lying prone in grass, as you could then walk up to them and pistol them at close range in broad daylight.

---------- Post added at 03:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:15 PM ----------

no degree of tactics would save you when the AI refuses to move, engage or even take proper cover. :)

have you tried the tactic of NOT relying on the AI for anything vital?

we called in a US delta Force medic in A2 last week in a battle. He has by default a rangefinder. He landed by parachute having drifted some 100m from our position up a bare hill in Duala. Enemies were on the hill and in the town below. We ordered him to heal someone and he took out his rangefinder and examined the nearby buildings, while standing upright in the open, with rounds whizzing overhead. then we ordered him to come to us, in cover, and he put away his rangefinder, walked 3 steps up the hill and took it out again.

in the end we all went up the hill to him, and set up a defensive position so he could heal the wounded guy who had crawled into the open to get healed. after about 10 minutes of fighting the medic healed the guy, then took out his rangefinder and stared out to sea... luckily we have written a rifle bash mod to make the situation have an amusing finale...

with stuff like that extremely common, i wouldn't worry too much about finessing the AI spotting system and reducing their capability. I fully recommend just turn down the accuracy and fight on... and NEVER trust an AI to do anything expected.

[calin_banc 19]

have you tried the tactic of NOT relying on the AI for anything vital?

Hiding under the rug those bugs doesn't magically fix them! I've said again and again: I play SP, I need the AI to work well (like all of us who do), more so on campaign; I don't like being John Rambo and my mates just some donkeys to carry my equipment around! So no, if I want to play this game like an ArmA game, I cannot. :)

Edited October 15, 2014 by calin_banc

[Variable 322]

have you tried the tactic of NOT relying on the AI for anything vital?

I fully recommend just turn down the accuracy and fight on... and NEVER trust an AI to do anything expected.

eggbeast your suggestions for not relying on the AI to do anything important in a thread that deals with problems with the AI, is like going on the Audio thread and telling people to turn off their speakers when they play.

[eggbeast 3673]

not the same at all. the AI in arma are limited and always have been. occasionally they do what they're supposed to, and that is a massive bonus when it happens, but you can NEVER rely on them unless you're a fool, or don't understand their limitations. they will almost never

- cross a bridge

- land a heli safely or anywhere near where you want it

- deliver CAS in an aircraft where you want it

- take off on an empty runway

- get out and defend their vehicle if shot at when in cargo

- cover you properly

- return fire when fired upon

- stay in formation on roads in safe mode

- heal you when you ask them to

- engage a target you have ordered them to

etc etc

but the issue raised about them targeting you in grass, it's minor compared with all that stuff and you can overcome the limitation raised in this thread by changing tactics and server profile settings as detailed here

now if the topic was about AI behaviour in general, then fair enough that can be talked about in more detail, but the original poster was saying his game was unplayable because of the AI behaviour. I was just explaining that it can be played DESPITE this issue, by adopting various measures.

[dav 22]

not the same at all. the AI in arma are limited and always have been. occasionally they do what they're supposed to, and that is a massive bonus when it happens, but you can NEVER rely on them unless you're a fool, or don't understand their limitations. they will almost never

- cross a bridge

True

- land a heli safely or anywhere near where you want it

False

- deliver CAS in an aircraft where you want it

False

- take off on an empty runway

True

- get out and defend their vehicle if shot at when in cargo

True

- cover you properly

False

- return fire when fired upon

False

- stay in formation on roads in safe mode

True

- heal you when you ask them to

False

- engage a target you have ordered them to

etc etc

You are exaggerating the competence of the ai somewhat there.

[kbbw123 115]

In my experience i use AI for 2 things. being a gunner in my tank or chopper (though in chopper i turn on Manual fire ^^) there aim is always perfect :P

and as a meat shield hell if i don't have cover I'll just run from ai to ai till im safe....

[eggbeast 3673]

quite!

[Bouben 3]

eggbeast your suggestions for not relying on the AI to do anything important in a thread that deals with problems with the AI, is like going on the Audio thread and telling people to turn off their speakers when they play.

Exactly. I am so tired of his non-sense suggestions. The only solution for the mentioned problems is to fix them. Nothing else. No workarounds.

[Variable 322]

I was just explaining that it can be played DESPITE this issue, by adopting various measures.

Proposing players "not to use the AI to anything critical" is not what I call a measure to adapt to overcome the problems.

[calin_banc 19]

not the same at all. the AI in arma are limited and always have been. occasionally they do what they're supposed to, and that is a massive bonus when it happens, but you can NEVER rely on them unless you're a fool, or don't understand their limitations. they will almost never

- cross a bridge

- land a heli safely or anywhere near where you want it

- deliver CAS in an aircraft where you want it

- take off on an empty runway

- get out and defend their vehicle if shot at when in cargo

- cover you properly

- return fire when fired upon

- stay in formation on roads in safe mode

- heal you when you ask them to

- engage a target you have ordered them to

etc etc

but the issue raised about them targeting you in grass, it's minor compared with all that stuff and you can overcome the limitation raised in this thread by changing tactics and server profile settings as detailed here

now if the topic was about AI behaviour in general, then fair enough that can be talked about in more detail, but the original poster was saying his game was unplayable because of the AI behaviour. I was just explaining that it can be played DESPITE this issue, by adopting various measures.

Cool, by your own words the single player part is a complete failure and the AI needs to be redone, part which already has been suggested many times before and is the subject of this thread.

Edited October 16, 2014 by calin_banc

[eggbeast 3673]

oh i thought the subject of the thread was how to survive when under fire from AI in open fields?

not we need to fix all the AI bugs, which is clearly your agenda and which i also support.

nvm have fun anyway!

[calin_banc 19]

Well, you were the one suggesting to use tactics to overcome the "cheating AI" in this thread, to which I was pointing out a few times their pretty much futile existence, since your team mates do little to help, due to AI being... broken. :)

Edited October 16, 2014 by calin_banc

[eggbeast 3673]

you can see a little on this vid of our last battle night, how we manage to survive against AI - might cheer you SP players up a bit...

[BL1P 35]

Wrong game egg :) Arma3 here m8 :)

O yer and 3rd :(

[roshnak 41]

Long story short, there is a technology that works for AI as obscuring soldiers in grass :icon_twisted:

To elaborate more, AI isn't affected directly by grass clutter, but each clutter type appears according to surface under it and that surface affects "size" of anyone on that surface (with some additional influences like stance, uniform and so on). Shooting the weapon affects this a lot (lets say 10 times), which means that AI sees soldier in grass being two meters tall instead for some short time. Just to note, bushes work in some other way :icon_twisted:

Is there any effect on an AI unit's ability to see through tall grass that it is in? Like, does the AI being prone in tall grass reduce it's overall situational awareness like it does for players?

you can see a little on this vid of our last battle night, how we manage to survive against AI - might cheer you SP players up a bit...

What do you think you're proving with these videos? No one is saying that it's impossible to survive against the AI, just that there is a problem with the way they handle grass. Most of us know how to survive against the AI, as we have been playing these games for years and have adapted to the weird quirks of the AI. That doesn't mean that those quirks shouldn't be fixed.

[Tyl3r99 41]

you can see a little on this vid of our last battle night, how we manage to survive against AI - might cheer you SP players up a bit...

wrong game buddy!!!!!! arma 2 AI is different as its on different engine :)

[KeyCat 131]

Long story short, there is a technology that works for AI as obscuring soldiers in grass :icon_twisted:

To elaborate more, AI isn't affected directly by grass clutter, but each clutter type appears according to surface under it and that surface affects "size" of anyone on that surface (with some additional influences like stance, uniform and so on). Shooting the weapon affects this a lot (lets say 10 times), which means that AI sees soldier in grass being two meters tall instead for some short time. Just to note, bushes work in some other way :icon_twisted:

Would love to see the ghillie suit working, i.e be able to hide you from AI in grass/bushes if you are prone, still and not compromised. As it is now the ghillie is pretty much useless in A3 (worked fine in A2:OA to hide in tall grass btw)...

/KC

Edited October 18, 2014 by KeyCat

[trojanman190 10]

This is such a big/important issue to me and the few dudes I've tried to get into ARMA that I created an account just to post support for op. No game is perfect and there is plenty to be improved with ARMA 3 but it's still a fantastic game.

However, the ability for AI to perfectly shoot from an in grass prone position when you, the player, absolutely cannot do such a thing is extremely frustrating. Just like others have posted I'm not even concerned with the "magical detection" abilities that the AI seem to have... When prone in grass I have to raise my stance to fire shots. The AI does not have to. That sucks soooooooo badly.

That's it. I can live with everything else. This one simple advantage that the AI has is just ridiculous and chases a lot of my buddies away from an otherwise awesome experience, and that's frustrating too.

This will sound like a cheesy unrealistic band-aid, but a simple script that forces AI out of prone position when they want to shoot would MASSIVELY help. Yes, I know it's not realistic at all, but at least it wouldn't be so frustrating anymore.

Sorry I didn't have anything exciting to add about video game politics or AI algorithms, etc.

[I give up 152]

I solved this problem.

I always disable the grass in the missions where I play.

Still sometimes some cheatin BOT kill me through some wall, but I also solved this problem.

I respawn and I kill him slowly, just for the revenge.

[roshnak 41]

However, the ability for AI to perfectly shoot from an in grass prone position when you, the player, absolutely cannot do such a thing is extremely frustrating. Just like others have posted I'm not even concerned with the "magical detection" abilities that the AI seem to have... When prone in grass I have to raise my stance to fire shots. The AI does not have to. That sucks soooooooo badly.

I'll just echo this part, as I think it's pretty important and seems to have kind of gotten lost in many of the posts in this thread. It's great that the AI is taking into account whether or not their target is concealed by tall grass, but I'm still interested in whether the AI is taking into account whether their own concealment is obstructing their view.

[I give up 152]

Also the AI can see and kill us through bushes or trees and we just cant see where they are, these ones have not been solved by me, yet.

In matters of grass A3 needs this.

[araripe 10]

adapting to it is your key to survival!

Perfect!

Survive. Adapt. Win!

[tvig0r0us 27]

Thank you for this thread. This is the number one game ruining issue in this entire game for me personally. It has caused me to spend more time away than any other thing I've encountered in a game I otherwise find quite good. The ability of the ai to locate, line up and kill a prone target with concealment is a total fun/immersion wrecker like nothing else and I'm happy to see it being discussed here.... again.

Cheers :D

[eymerich 11]

Long story short, there is a technology that works for AI as obscuring soldiers in grass :icon_twisted:

To elaborate more, AI isn't affected directly by grass clutter, but each clutter type appears according to surface under it and that surface affects "size" of anyone on that surface (with some additional influences like stance, uniform and so on). Shooting the weapon affects this a lot (lets say 10 times), which means that AI sees soldier in grass being two meters tall instead for some short time. Just to note, bushes work in some other way :icon_twisted:

Thanks for your Answer.

However, I hope Bis would consider to add some (more) limits to Ai, since it shouldn't be able to detect the playes when he is concealed in grass

[maturin 12]

I don't even notice this as being a problem anymore.