Are there any advantages to using silencers in A3?

[tmp95 16]

Do silencers work yet in A3 (in terms of reducing the enemy knowing about you for period of time)??

[Greenfist 1863]

I'm not absolutely sure but I believe AI doesn't pinpoint your location so easily when using a silencer.

One other advantage is the higher muzzle velocity with silencers. I.e. less bullet-drop over distance.

[Variable 322]

One other advantage is the higher muzzle velocity with silencers. I.e. less bullet-drop over distance.

And more damage! :)

Another advantage is a decreased muzzle flash, which makes it hard on the AI to see the shooter.

[MrHuachuca 10]

Well, silencers in AI are not really best used for stealth.

These are working reasons for how the silencer works in A3

1. Makes your gun and you look like a boss lol ;)

2. Higher Muzzle Velocity

3. More damage (only on certain weapons)

4. decreased muzzle flash

5. Takes out echoing sounds from your gun firing.

Also if you do want to make your silencer actually stealthy use a mod I use, I believe it's called terrier 1 silencer fix. Something like that.

Hope this helped.

[-=seany=- 5]

From what I have seen playing COOP online, silencers are not nearly as effective as Arma2. In 2 I could use a suppressor and as long as you waited 2 seconds or so between each shot the AI would not detect you. In Arma3 it seems very hard to judge what difference it's making. Some times the AI just seem to hear one shot and spot you straight away. My guess is it's bugged...or they have added some random element that decides if the Ai might detect you or not. That's what it feels like anyway.

[Von Quest 1163]

Can someone explain why it has higher muzzle velocity?

I always thought it was the opposite. It was a trade off for the suppression? In that case, why ever NOT have the suppressor on then?

Noticed that in testing my Sniper Project, thought it was a bug by BIS inversing a value or something. Curious indeed.

[warlord554 2065]

Several variables involved with suppresors in real world combat. Short answer:

New style modern silencers use baffles, and on many rounds there is a minimal increase in velocity(usually no more than 5%)

The older ones actually slowed it down using "wipes", that made contact with the round

Subsonic rounds are designed to be slower, therefore quieter

In special operations some key uses are minimal muzzleflash, not alerting enemy qrf around the AO, and keeping your hearing capabilities

Many factors for proper use need to be addressed, even weather and temperature can play a role in effectiveness

Game wise ai is already stupid smart and aware, weapon modders can adjust suppressor settings on the config level, but how much of a true impact it has is debatable

[the_demongod 31]

In game, muzzle velocity is not increased, but rather decreased resulting in less powerful rounds.

In real life:

Suppressors muffle the muzzle blast of the shot. They do this with a series of rings inside the suppressor which the bullet passes through. Sound waves are absorbed and diffused by these rings (called baffles).

However, the gun is still quite loud because the supersonic round creates a loud sonic boom/snap (similar to what you hear when a bullet passes you).

This can be circumvented by using subsonic ammunition. This is where the stereotype that suppressed weapons are weaker comes from - to get a much quieter shot, a much slower (and therefore less powerful) round is used.

Without subsonic ammunition, the reduction in muzzle velocity is negligible, with the only possible drop in velocity resulting from turbulence as the bullet passes the baffles.

Some test have been done which say suppressors seem to increase muzzle velocity. There is a chance that a small enough suppressor will keep the exhaust gasses behind the bullet, effectively increasing the length of the barrel (and therefore the time of acceleration for the bullet), but this would only be roughly a 20 fps increase which is an almost completely negligible change.

In game, the AI will have a harder time pinpointing your position, and at first may not notice the shot unless they see it hit near them or hit one of them. But remember that because subsonic ammunition is not yet modeled, there is a bit of a decrease in muzzle velocity even though the sound isn't as quiet as it would be with subsonic ammo.

Edited October 1, 2014 by the_Demongod

[EricJ 761]

Do silencers work yet in A3 (in terms of reducing the enemy knowing about you for period of time)??

Yes they do (without going into real world dynamics) as I've played Invade and Annex and played Urban Sniper at night in Charkia and got like 13 kills without a shot fired at me, inside of town.

So long story short, yes they do.

[Greenfist 1863]

What the hell are you guys saying about increased damage and muzzle velocity? The opposite is true.

I'm not sure about the higher damage in the game, I think it's meaningless at best in practice. But the muzzle velocity increases with suppressors in game and in real life.

[Varanon 892]

I'm not sure about the higher damage in the game, I think it's meaningless at best in practice. But the muzzle velocity increases with suppressors in game and in real life.

Huh ? Since when do suppressors increase muzzle velocity ? At best, it keeps it the same (i.e. same damage), and some older models slow down the bullet to subsonic speeds, resulting in less impulse and thus less damage. I have never heard of a suppressor that actually increases muzzle velocity. Do you have a source for that claim ?

[Greenfist 1863]

Huh ? Since when do suppressors increase muzzle velocity ? At best, it keeps it the same (i.e. same damage), and some older models slow down the bullet to subsonic speeds, resulting in less impulse and thus less damage. I have never heard of a suppressor that actually increases muzzle velocity. Do you have a source for that claim ?

There was a lengthy discussion about it in these forums but I couldn't find it now. But here's something: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/05/foghorn/ask-foghorn-does-a-silencer-effect-the-velocity-of-the-bullet/

The effect is insignificant IRL but it's there. If I remember correctly the difference is bigger in the game, something like 0.5m lower bullet drop at 400m with a silencer.

The reason is the longer barrel, hence a longer time for the gas to propel the bullet. And because the silencer doesn't touch the bullet, it can't slow down.

And suppressors don't slow down the bullet to subsonic speed, a completely different subsonic ammo is need for that.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Greenfist

[Variable 322]

There was a lengthy discussion about it in these forums but I couldn't find it now. But here's something: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/05/foghorn/ask-foghorn-does-a-silencer-effect-the-velocity-of-the-bullet/

The effect is insignificant IRL but it's there. If I remember correctly the difference is bigger in the game, something like 0.5m lower bullet drop at 400m with a silencer.

The reason is the longer barrel, hence a longer time for the gas to propel the bullet. And because the silencer doesn't touch the bullet, it can't slow down.

And suppressors don't slow down the bullet to subsonic speed, a completely different subsonic ammo is need for that.

What Greenfist said. My [untested properly] theory is that the negligible RL damage increase due to the higher muzzle velocity is over-pronounced in Arma 3. I'm pretty sure less bullets are required to kill an Arma 3 target using a silenced weapon. I didn't test that properly, it's just my impression after playing with and without silencers.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Variable

[Varanon 892]

The reason is the longer barrel, hence a longer time for the gas to propel the bullet. And because the silencer doesn't touch the bullet, it can't slow down.

Right, that makes sense

And suppressors don't slow down the bullet to subsonic speed, a completely different subsonic ammo is need for that.

I think I read on Wikipedia that some older models, especially those that are built into the weapon (like the MP5) do slow the bullet by allowing gas to vent.

[Alwarren 2767]

In game, muzzle velocity is not increased, but rather decreased resulting in less powerful rounds.

That's not true:

class MagazineCoef
{
   initSpeed = 1.1;
};[color=#000000][/color]

This is from the current config files, indicating that muzzle velocity is about 10% higher than without a silencer. Damage values are the same (facotr 1), but since there is more speed the impact is probably higher.

[Greenfist 1863]

The damage of a suppressed shot (the two on the left) and un-suppressed (2 on right) with MX at 100m:

http://i.imgur.com/ngEj2uS.jpg

(damage/distance above the soldiers)

Visible but insignificant difference.

With silencer on the right:

http://i.imgur.com/ZTIw8zC.jpg

(velocity/distance on the lines)

The gun was mk18. With suppressor, the velocity is 10% higher, just like the damage.

The difference in bullet drop was much smaller than I remembered.

[Variable 322]

A 10% damage increase might make the difference between killing a unit with 3 shots or 4 shots. Did you happen to test that?

[Greenfist 1863]

A 10% damage increase might make the difference between killing a unit with 3 shots or 4 shots. Did you happen to test that?

That's of course possible, because the damage from one shot can be anything from 0 to 100%. But such thing occurs very rarely in actual combat I think.

The same guys as above always died with 3 suppressed MX shots to the chest at 300m: 25% overall damage / shot.

Without the suppressor, they could take 4 shots every time I tried: 23% / shot.

[Variable 322]

Ha! I knew it :)

Thanks for checking Greenfist.

[TSAndrey 1]

They're useless against AI. AI will easily pinpoint your location just like they always do

[Von Quest 1163]

What a fantastic discussion. I love this kind of analysis. Learned something new!

[Variable 322]

That's of course possible, because the damage from one shot can be anything from 0 to 100%. But such thing occurs very rarely in actual combat I think.

The same guys as above always died with 3 suppressed MX shots to the chest at 300m: 25% overall damage / shot.

Without the suppressor, they could take 4 shots every time I tried: 23% / shot.

By the way, in practical terms, this makes a silenced weapon significantly lethal in the game when compared to the same weapon without a silencer. Therefore, this could be treated as a bug.

[Greenfist 1863]

By the way, in practical terms, this makes a silenced weapon significantly lethal in the game when compared to the same weapon without a silencer. Therefore, this could be treated as a bug.

The 10% higher damage is obviously too much. I couldn't find any real world data about it having nothing more than 0-5% difference (in velocity).

I wouldn't say the suppressors are significantly more lethal. In actual combat the damage values vary a lot. It's not like it's always 3 shots to kill vs 4 shots. But still; 10% is 10%.

I hope BI makes the damage & velocity equal. (Not 30% less damage and accuracy like most other games, 'cause that's not how silencers work today and definitely not in 2035)

[Variable 322]

I opened a ticket:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=21000

[Alwarren 2767]

They're useless against AI. AI will easily pinpoint your location just like they always do

I think that's a different issue. I reported this bug a million years ago (well, about a year and a half); grouped AI always knows immediately when someone in their group is killed. Ticket is here. I tried this with placing units on opposite ends of Stratis, and have a camera pointed at the second unit. If I kill the one unit on the airfield on Stratis, the one at Kamino immediately goes prone, even though it was a clean one-shot kill. It's like they push their radio transmit button when they die.

Makes stealth mission futile unless you make sure that units are not grouped. Ungrouped units will not notice anything, the ticket links to a YouTube video that proves it. This is really annoying.