Faction restrictions

[Zeppelin33 10]

Wouldn't it be easier making missions and content, if there weren't any faction restrictions.

This is mainly about the issues with non interchangeable uniforms, limited possibilities in making maps and something that I see quite often, not being able to enter a vehicle with a different faction unit in it.

A scenario as example: You have captured a enemy. Now you need to transport him somewhere. Whats also been happening lately, if a soldier mistakingly kills a civilian or friendly, theres issues with him getting into the same vehicle.

Faction restrictions also complicate hostage maps and many other scenarios. When a player dies, he changes to faction: civilian, which sometimes complicate things for Tvt's.

Wouldn't it be easier for everyone, if all the combatants and civilians, be of one side, but still obviously called Opfor and Blufor and if you make a map, there can be a module you place down and sync, all troops to then place, which side they are enemies to. Or may be a drop down menu. Or like the case of independent, just a selection. Then for TvT's where scoring doesn't matter, you can make everyone the same team. The system doesnt need to know if youve shot a friendly or not. You know. And if you want the system to know. Place the module and make them enemies. Triggers you can sync to a group, so it doesnt need to check side. If, in a tvt, you make everyone the same team, you can capture and transport hostages, interact and medic enemy troops, look through their gear etc. In bigger AI scenarios, you can have enemy fight enemy if you have a crazy storyline going.

For big maps with 100's of enemies you can sync all troops in trigger area. Or select an option that, Opfor enemy to Blufor. Most of these use enemy spawning scripts anyways, maby 1 line at the top before spawning enemies: All Blufor enemy Opfor.

Its a very cumbersome system and my idea are probably not the best, but surely there can be something better, just to get civilians or opfor to get in the same vehicle as blufor?

[teaboy 11]

Most of the issues you mentioned could be worked round with scripting i would expect, and you should have posted this thread in one of the forum pages here http://forums.bistudio.com/forumdisplay.php?169-ARMA-3-EDITING

I believe the only reason we do not have a module for each specific possible action or usage is simply down to the lack of development time needed to do it. Hence why BI allow the use of scripting and provide a Biki for it and threads in the forum so we can share our own scripting knowledge.

As for interchangeable uniforms, i doubt that can be worked around as BIS removed that feature due to it being a war crime under the Geneva convention for opposing forces to use each others uniforms. The only exception being for espionage carried out by secret services (Spies), where other rules under international law apply.

[sxp2high 22]

The uniform restriction is a very unfortunate limitation indeed. Still annoys me. The other way around would've been much better, something like uniform_limitations = true;, if not set, you can wear anything.

In an old E3 video they even advertised changing uniform for disguise as a great new feature...

Since when does the Geneva convention apply in video games? That's ridiculous. It's a work of fiction. That's like GTA removing the ability to steal cars, because it's against the law.

If you mean "Ingame Geneva convention", they should just script it in. If you wear the wrong uniform, and get caught, you get court-martialed (mission ends).

But I guess we have to deal with it. :(

[Zeppelin33 10]

This is more like a general idea rather than a how to ( but ill post a thread in editing as well to find out how to and apologies as im terrible with forums). Its always possible with scripting, but its sad that everything you want to do, boils down to scripting. Bohemias excuse for the uniforms, is a bit bad, its like Payday 2 going " Its illegal to rob banks, so lets make the guys work for legal money." Its a sandbox, so all possibilities should be open. If someone wants to make a spy mission, then by all means, why not. It was demo'ed when arma 3 alpha ( i think) was being shown to TotalBiscuit. Afaik there is a mod that enables uniforms to be worn by any faction, but thats not so much the trouble maker. Difficulty getting into vehicles is a big one. We often get, where someone cant get in. Then some person needs to get out and then that person gets back in - dance. Also, hostage missions and hostage transport.

[IndeedPete 1038]

I agree to the topic of this thread. I'd go even further and finally overwork the limiting side/faction system we have since OFP. It would be great if a mission designer could just pop up the intel dialog in the editor, defines as many factions and their relations as he pleases and then place down units for each faction (means unit classes are available anywhere in the editor and not just under "CSAT" or so). It would work like in strategy games when you create a quick skrimish scenario, pick different factions and team them up as you please. I've been dealing with custom factions and sides a lot and several times ran into the problem that I just don't have enough sides to create the scenario in question. When you need more than three parties all fighting each other the outdated and inflexible WEST-EAST-INDEPENDENT system fails. But I guess that's something I won't see in my lifetime, just like the built-in 3D editor. :/

[rübe 127]

I'd go even further and finally overwork the limiting side/faction system we have since OFP.

Indeed.

The current/old sides-system is one of the bigger design flaws in ofp/arma-history...

But I guess that's something I won't see in my lifetime, just like the built-in 3D editor. :/

Oh, I think chances for a built-in 3D editor are rather intact. The thing with the sides/factions on the other hand... I'm afraid this stuff is burried way too deep into OFP/Arma. The costs to change this would be huge, while the benefits would be arguably diminishing in comparison, as in: west-east-guer is good enough for some pew pew'ing.

:(

And as for the things with the uniforms: there are simply too many (and way too hard to solve) problems if you can just hop into enemy uniforms.

And mind you, I'm not only looking at the AI.

Edited August 7, 2014 by ruebe

[IndeedPete 1038]

Well, a first step could be to make all unit classes available to all sides. That certainly is possible with small effort, seeing that FIA units are actually available to all sides (with a small workaround). And with that you could already create CSAT vs. CSAT or renegade NATO vs. regular NATO scenarios without clunky workarounds. It would bring at least some flexibility.

Okay, I'm counting on your word regarding the 3D editor! :D

[haleks 8212]

Agreed with this thread!

Right now there's absolutely no way to have different groups from a same side to attack each other - the possibility to do that would make civil war/post-apo missions so much easier to create!

[zimms 22]

There is a way. Link a BLUFOR unit to a OPFOR unit so the OPFOR unit is the leader. Set probability of OPFOR unit to 0%.

[IndeedPete 1038]

Yes, but that is a rather clunky workaround since the units are technically still BLUFOR. Apart from unnecessary work for the mission designer there are a few other issues with those units. Funny thing though, I've grouped a few BLUFOR guys to me while I was playing OPFOR and they started killing each other on mission start. I guess, they simply couldn't handle the ambivalence of their own being. :D

[katipo66 94]

Agree with this thread, let the mission makers define sides..

[Zeppelin33 10]

IndeedPete's idea is nice. I think its one of those cases where a newer system like this, would feel difficult for people starting to make their own missions, but soon will make sense, as they start to get better at mission making. It would really open up the doors to so much possibilities and also ease game-play. You can do the "link to invisible unit" to change faction, but you will still only be stuck with 4 factions.

[Jona33 51]

The way DCS handles it would be nice, when you create a new mission you have a red coalition and a blue coalition and you can add whatever countries you want to each side, the same idea (with independent included of course) would be great.

[haleks 8212]

Yes, but that is a rather clunky workaround since the units are technically still BLUFOR. Apart from unnecessary work for the mission designer there are a few other issues with those units. Funny thing though, I've grouped a few BLUFOR guys to me while I was playing OPFOR and they started killing each other on mission start. I guess, they simply couldn't handle the ambivalence of their own being. :D

Hehe, I'm actually using that trick to have renegades attacking squads of their own side. ;)

Very usefull to create a bunch of lone bandits.

[Zeppelin33 10]

Yes, but that is a rather clunky workaround since the units are technically still BLUFOR. Apart from unnecessary work for the mission designer there are a few other issues with those units. Funny thing though, I've grouped a few BLUFOR guys to me while I was playing OPFOR and they started killing each other on mission start. I guess, they simply couldn't handle the ambivalence of their own being. :D

LOL, yeah we have a mission we play since arma 2, where i link civilians to opfor. luckily its players and not AI, otherwise i would likely have had the same result XD.

Theres a whole lot of great ideas here, that i would rather prefer over the current system, I guess we can only hope Bohemia has something to rework the factions in the pipeline.

[haleks 8212]

I guess we can only hope Bohemia has something to rework the factions in the pipeline.

Don't hope too much. :(

[igor drukov 0]

Creating a BLUFOR group linked to an OPFOR leader with a 0% probability of presence will make that group OPFOR.

Giving units a negative score with AddScore will make them the target of everyone on the map.

[haleks 8212]

Creating a BLUFOR group linked to an OPFOR leader with a 0% probability of presence will make that group OPFOR.

Giving units a negative score with AddScore will make them the target of everyone on the map.

It's not really the point of this thread; besides:

Yes, but that is a rather clunky workaround since the units are technically still BLUFOR. Apart from unnecessary work for the mission designer there are a few other issues with those units.