Advanced Ballistics (WIP)

[gibonez 18]

Unless you have an on/off button as for the helicopter DLC I guess the marksman dlc will have a tremendous effect on AB. Let's hope BIS doesn't do anything by halves.

Yea not a huge fan of AFM being optional.

AFM seemed like a huge undertaking and something that finally added much needed skill to flight in Arma and yet its completely optional :/

[Brisse 78]

I'm on dev-branch and they have already released some of the Marksman DLC features there and there's no compatibility issue so far with this mod. Next big thing is probably weapon stabilization, but that should not affect this mod either.

[gibonez 18]

I'm on dev-branch and they have already released some of the Marksman DLC features there and there's no compatibility issue so far with this mod. Next big thing is probably weapon stabilization, but that should not affect this mod either.

What features are in now if you don't mind me asking.

[brainslush 13]

I'm on dev-branch and they have already released some of the Marksman DLC features there and there's no compatibility issue so far with this mod. Next big thing is probably weapon stabilization, but that should not affect this mod either.

Then they haven't done anything to the bullet trajectory yet. AB and all other more or less proper ballistic addons work the same way: Reverse the calculations done by the Arma engine and apply your own calculations. The removal of the Arma engine calculations is only possible since we know what the engine does: so far only drag calculations which are so extremely simplified that they are just simply wrong (see here). This probably won't be possible with the marksman dlc.

[Brisse 78]

What features are in now if you don't mind me asking.

The only things so far that is affecting ballistics is that they have added the parameter initSpeed in cfgWeapon which enables different muzzle velocity depending on barrel length while being able to use the same magazines. Otherwise they have just tweaked the muzzle velocities, with and without suppressors. There are other things too, like FFV inertia but those are not even remotely connected to what AB does.

Then they haven't done anything to the bullet trajectory yet. AB and all other more or less proper ballistic addons work the same way: Reverse the calculations done by the Arma engine and apply your own calculations. The removal of the Arma engine calculations is only possible since we know what the engine does: so far only drag calculations which are so extremely simplified that they are just simply wrong (see here). This probably won't be possible with the marksman dlc.

It does not seem they plan to change the drag calculation, which is why I think AB is going to work just fine after Marksman DLC release. I know the limitations of that system. I have worked on the ballistics in a addon pack with many weapons and I have put in parameters for both vanilla ballistics and AB. I have tried to get the vanilla as close to AB as possible, but once you start using ballistics charts you realize the shortcomings of the vanilla system. If one adjusts the airfriction parameter so that the impact point and velocity at let's say 400m is correct, then it's going to be wrong at any other distance. There's no way around that without advanced ballistics.

[galzohar 31]

The only things so far that is affecting ballistics is that they have added the parameter initSpeed in cfgWeapon which enables different muzzle velocity depending on barrel length while being able to use the same magazines. Otherwise they have just tweaked the muzzle velocities, with and without suppressors. There are other things too, like FFV inertia but those are not even remotely connected to what AB does.

It does not seem they plan to change the drag calculation, which is why I think AB is going to work just fine after Marksman DLC release. I know the limitations of that system. I have worked on the ballistics in a addon pack with many weapons and I have put in parameters for both vanilla ballistics and AB. I have tried to get the vanilla as close to AB as possible, but once you start using ballistics charts you realize the shortcomings of the vanilla system. If one adjusts the airfriction parameter so that the impact point and velocity at let's say 400m is correct, then it's going to be wrong at any other distance. There's no way around that without advanced ballistics.

It can make velocity depend on weapon and not just magazine, but in an extremely messed up way. I hope they plan to do something way better than that, though I won't be surprised if they don't.

I tried making a post on the dev branch forum about this but it was deleted without warning. I suppose it would be better if someone who's more aware of ways to notify BIS about our concerns without triggering the moderators' wrath would try create a comprehensive post in a place where it will be accepted.

[Brisse 78]

Actually, they did change it. First it was just overwriting the initSpeed set in magazine config. Then they changed it so that you can choose several methods. The method depends on if you put in a positive or negative number, or simply put in zero.

Negative number: It's treated as a multiplier. This is the way the community wanted it and is also the methods I use. "initSpeed = -0.80;" will give muzzle velocity that is 80% of the one stated in magazine config.

Zero: It does nothing and uses the same number as magazine config.

Positive: It overwrites magazine config initSpeed with whatever number you put in weapon config.

[brainslush 13]

The only things so far that is affecting ballistics is that they have added the parameter initSpeed in cfgWeapon which enables different muzzle velocity depending on barrel length while being able to use the same magazines. Otherwise they have just tweaked the muzzle velocities, with and without suppressors. There are other things too, like FFV inertia but those are not even remotely connected to what AB does.

Config values do not influence AB since AB uses its own set of config values, so far they exist for the specific weapon/magazine. One could include these new BIS values into AB for weapons and magazines which have no AB config values.

It does not seem they plan to change the drag calculation, which is why I think AB is going to work just fine after Marksman DLC release. I know the limitations of that system. I have worked on the ballistics in a addon pack with many weapons and I have put in parameters for both vanilla ballistics and AB. I have tried to get the vanilla as close to AB as possible, but once you start using ballistics charts you realize the shortcomings of the vanilla system. If one adjusts the airfriction parameter so that the impact point and velocity at let's say 400m is correct, then it's going to be wrong at any other distance. There's no way around that without advanced ballistics.

Do you have a source for that rumor that BIS isn't going to alter the drag? If they really aren't going to change anything concerning ballistics then this would be a shame. I know that Ruthberg offered BIS to use AB.

[Brisse 78]

Config values do not influence AB since AB uses its own set of config values, so far they exist for the specific weapon/magazine. One could include these new BIS values into AB for weapons and magazines which have no AB config values

Precisely. It's like I wrote in my original post: "there's no compatibility issue so far "

Do you have a source for that rumor that BIS isn't going to alter the drag? If they really aren't going to change anything concerning ballistics then this would be a shame. I know that Ruthberg offered BIS to use AB.

No source. It's just my gut feeling that I have gotten after following the devbranch forums daily and reading all the SITREP's and stuff. It seems they are busy doing other stuff. I don't think AB was ever an option for them. They probably don't think the performance impact is worth it. Just look around on the forums and you will see many complaints regarding performance. BI is chasing every single frame per second that they can get. AB would be counter productive in that chase.

[brainslush 13]

No source. It's just my gut feeling that I have gotten after following the devbranch forums daily and reading all the SITREP's and stuff. It seems they are busy doing other stuff. I don't think AB was ever an option for them. They probably don't think the performance impact is worth it. Just look around on the forums and you will see many complaints regarding performance. BI is chasing every single frame per second that they can get. AB would be counter productive in that chase.

I expected that they would bring up the performance issue but if they would include and enhance the AB extension (dll) the performance decrease probably would be negligible. The only thing causing real performance issues with AB is the communication between the Arma script and the extension.

A more understandable reason might be the issue that they either would have to teach the ai to shoot in windy conditions or somehow cripple the ai so the game stays balanced when strong wind is present.

[galzohar 31]

Actually, they did change it. First it was just overwriting the initSpeed set in magazine config. Then they changed it so that you can choose several methods. The method depends on if you put in a positive or negative number, or simply put in zero.

Negative number: It's treated as a multiplier. This is the way the community wanted it and is also the methods I use. "initSpeed = -0.80;" will give muzzle velocity that is 80% of the one stated in magazine config.

Zero: It does nothing and uses the same number as magazine config.

Yes, I have seen it, but if you've been following the kinds of numbers used in these ballistics mods you probably are already aware that it won't be anywhere near enough to allow setting proper config values to make default BIS ballistics anywhere near realistic.

[Brisse 78]

brainlush: You may be right. We can only speculate about their reasons :)

galzohar: Yup, I love the way AB does it with the arrays. Takes a lot more time to set up properly though.

[mason05 10]

hi there, i am trying to use this mod, however, i got used to the ACE2 and their rang table so i find it difficult with this mod-how can i possibly know every mil setting for different ranges and calibers? Is there a way to have a range table in game?

other than that i am astonished with the level of work put into this mod, so many factors are included.

[gibonez 18]

hi there, i am trying to use this mod, however, i got used to the ACE2 and their rang table so i find it difficult with this mod-how can i possibly know every mil setting for different ranges and calibers? Is there a way to have a range table in game?

other than that i am astonished with the level of work put into this mod, so many factors are included.

Get a ballistics app for your phone.

[Lapua338 12]

@mason05 there is another mod by the same author called atragmx. Its a ballistic calculator and has a range card feature. It doesnt take spin drift or coriolis into account so keep that in mind while using it. There is some good information in the first post thats worth looking at.

[mason05 10]

ok, i'll try out the ballistic calculator. thanks.

btw, coriolis comes into play only at extreme distances. guess it's the same for spin drift.

[Brisse 78]

The new initspeed parameter in cfgweapons is interfering with AB. AB's change in muzzle velocity and initspeed both come into effect, so the barrel length affects the muzzle velocity much more than it should.

Do you think this is something you can fix with an update Ruthberg?

[tortuosit 486]

Not sure, Marksmen DLC will be on stable sooner than later - where do you see the future of your DLC? I think I have to turn it off when marksmen is out? :(

[Brisse 78]

tortuosit: It's the muzzle velocity change that breaks advanced ballistics, and that change was pushed to stable in last patch (1.40). This means advanced ballistics is already broken on stable.

Ruthberg seems to have been inactive for a while. I hope he comes back and takes a look at this at some point. I don't think it's hard to fix actually.

[macfifa 10]

i m new to arma 3 and i love your mod but in the CfgWeapons you posted the line AB_barrelLength=228.7; feels wrong

class arifle_Katiba_F

{

AB_barrelTwist=8;

AB_barrelLength=228.7;

};

and another thing why in some ammo you use for standardAtmosphere "ICAO" and in some other "ASM"

I read that ICAO does not consider air humidity

and thx for amazing mod

[macfifa 10]

hi i take your advice Goblin i used your mod with AB mod and it is great thx i disable your ballistic

and your qestral gives better reading in wind than kestral 4500 mod i dont know why?

ex. 26 degree with 7 kts wind is 3.6 ms but kestral 4500 say it is 2.2 ms.

with your permission i will edit the code to devide knots/3.6 instead of 1.852 to have it read in ms

thx

Edited March 11, 2015 by macfifa

[macfifa 10]

hi i take your advice Goblin i used your mod with AB mod and it is great thx i disable your ballistic

and your qestral gives better reading in wind than kestral 4500 mod i dont know why?

ex. 26 degree with 7 kts wind is 3.6 ms but kestral 4500 say it is 2.2 ms.

with your permission i will edit the code to devide knots/3.6 instead of 1.852 to have it read in ms

thx

no body reply so i will reply to my self i find what the problem the kestral 4500 have code to check if advanced ballistic enable and call a data function i think

this function dont collect data of the wind it is only collect the cross wind so for us we need the wind speed value in order to put it into calculater like atragmx

and the atragmx do the job of calculate the cross wind.(it is like cross wind out of cross wind)

[Laid3acK 79]

Hello all and Ruthberg,

just a little question, it will be a updated version of Advanced Ballistics on ACE3 ?

[ruthberg 7]

I'm back. Sorry for the long absence.

---

The new initspeed parameter in cfgweapons is interfering with AB. AB's change in muzzle velocity and initspeed both come into effect, so the barrel length affects the muzzle velocity much more than it should.

Do you think this is something you can fix with an update Ruthberg?

Yes, I will fix this with the next update.

i m new to arma 3 and i love your mod but in the CfgWeapons you posted the line AB_barrelLength=228.7; feels wrong

class arifle_Katiba_F

{

AB_barrelTwist=8;

AB_barrelLength=228.7;

};

Will be fixed with the next update. Thanks for reporting that bug.

Not sure, Marksmen DLC will be on stable sooner than later - where do you see the future of your DLC? I think I have to turn it off when marksmen is out? :(

I will make sure it is compatible.

and another thing why in some ammo you use for standardAtmosphere "ICAO" and in some other "ASM"

I read that ICAO does not consider air humidity

The atmospheric model only specifies a reference air density. It must match the one used to determine the ballistic coefficient.

hi i take your advice Goblin i used your mod with AB mod and it is great thx i disable your ballistic

and your qestral gives better reading in wind than kestral 4500 mod i dont know why?

ex. 26 degree with 7 kts wind is 3.6 ms but kestral 4500 say it is 2.2 ms.

My Kestrel 4500 takes the environment (obstacles, terrain) into account, when used together with Advanced Ballistics.

You will get better wind readings when you are on an elevated position clear of any obstructions.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Ruthberg

[Brisse 78]

Good to see you haven't left us in the dust :)

Can't live without Advanced Ballistics.

Since AB is part of CSE, will it also be part of ACE3?