Why couldn't all the modders work together, and make something better than ACE

[PuFu 4600]

Guys i'm not saying here that all modders are selfish, and ass holes, that doesn't collaborate with each other, if you can find it in my posts you might need to practice reading a bit more.

Let's say all modders are shelfish (which they aren't since 99% of them are sharing their work with everyone else, aka "the users"). But let's say that they are selfish, and like working all by themselves, keeping their addons from being derrived or re-distributed. Why do you think anyone has a right to judge that?

oh, you can't find that word by word, but this is what i get from what you are writting. (you know, reading between the lines). If that's what some get out of it (as in more then one), maybe it is you who needs to practice some writting, isn't it?

Do they collaborate with each other? Yes they do, does that mean that they can't collaborate more? No, there is always room for improvement, we could be a much more friendly community without things like the ones guys like L3TUC3 is doing, where people respect each other a lot more, even when their views goes to a different way.

I think that by the amount of views this thread has had is something interesting and that the community would like to see... don't need to be for just one project... people could be helping each other out in several projects for example "Oh we just finished doing a project with the view of how the game should be for Subject Y, now please guys help me to accomplish mines"... not creating a limit by what you think the game should be or not, just simply help each other if you can...

well, truth be told, there is always room for improvement. The modding community is actually pretty friendly, especially with the ones that have tried it by themselves before hitting a dead end. I really don't mind someone preaching to the chorus, but then again, i think the first to "live by" those rules should actually be yourself. But i guess the saying "do what a priest tells you, not what a priest does" works here just as well.

Oh, the number of view could be related to the fact that you used ACE in the thread and not with the actual topic.

Now out of curiosity, the lack of working together as you put it, is that something you have a first hand experience with? And by that i mean, did someone pushed you away? Have you tried helping a mod out, and they said "no be gone", despite your AAA skills in a certain production area? (by the way, what are you skills?). I am genuinely curious about two things:

1. how did you end up writting this thread. I mean what was the motivation behind it: was it frustration, or is it simply a "preaching thread?"

2. when you say (title) "why couldn't ALL the modders work together", do you actually mean everyone who has some skill and is active in this community should get around, get together and work on the same project, or is it only the ones (or similar) that have been mentioned in your first post?

i'm not saying neglect your life, and use all your free time...just chat get to a consensus, and manage your times.

how thoughtful of you to tell others how to manage their time. Brilliant.

Besides that the things i'd like to see in a massive mod like this is an interface like Take On Helicopters, with interactive nodes on all intractable objects. Realistic sounds for every single thing to a great deal of detail, as well as models of vehicles, weapons, and player models being high detail. Then there is the HUD vs. No HUD argument, which would fall under the conflict of interest category. But those are just a few of my ideas.

Sorry to burst your bubble here, i wouldn't dream of you having your enthusiasm fall short, but this isn't the addon request thread, and neither it is a "i want all the thingz" kind of thread.

It can be done, definitely.

well, go ahead and do it then, you seem perfectly confident there.

And heck, i'm not a modder, but id be glad to jump on board as the intensive idea guy.

Ohhh, more of an "idea guy", aren't you? One just can't have enough of those...In fact if there would be even more of the "intensive idea guys" such of yourself, i am sure the hefty list above would be done, by itself, in no time.

(what is op?)

Original Poster - as in yourself.

Edited July 31, 2014 by PuFu

[Ckrauslo 12]

Let's say all modders are shelfish (which they aren't since 99% of them are sharing their work with everyone else, aka "the users"). But let's say that they are selfish, and like working all by themselves, keeping their addons from being derrived or re-distributed. Why do you think anyone has a right to judge that?

oh, you can't find that word by word, but this is what i get from what you are writting. (you know, reading between the lines). If that's what some get out of it (as in more then one), maybe it is you who needs to practice some writting, isn't it?

well, truth be told, there is always room for improvement. The modding community is actually pretty friendly, especially with the ones that have tried it by themselves before hitting a dead end. I really don't mind someone preaching to the chorus, but then again, i think the first to "live by" those rules should actually be yourself. But i guess the saying "do what a priest tells you, not what a priest does" works here just as well.

Oh, the number of view could be related to the fact that you used ACE in the thread and not with the actual topic.

Now out of curiosity, the lack of working together as you put it, is that something you have a first hand experience with? And by that i mean, did someone pushed you away? Have you tried helping a mod out, and they said "no be gone", despite your AAA skills in a certain production area? (by the way, what are you skills?). I am genuinely curious about two things:

1. how did you end up writting this thread. I mean what was the motivation behind it: was it frustration, or is it simply a "preaching thread?"

2. when you say (title) "why couldn't ALL the modders work together", do you actually mean everyone who has some skill and is active in this community should get around, get together and work on the same project, or is it only the ones (or similar) that have been mentioned in your first post?

how thoughtful of you to tell others how to manage their time. Brilliant.

Sorry to burst your bubble here, i wouldn't dream of you having your enthusiasm fall short, but this isn't the addon request thread, and neither it is a "i want all the thingz" kind of thread.

well, go ahead and do it then, you seem perfectly confident there.

Ohhh, more of an "idea guy", aren't you? One just can't have enough of those...In fact if there would be even more of the "intensive idea guys" such of yourself, i am sure the hefty list above would be done, by itself, in no time.

Original Poster - as in yourself.

1 i'm responsible for what i say, i'm not however for what you understand, i didn't wrote anything "Between the lines"

2 i would believe that is the case if moderation came here and complained about ace being mentioned, or someone came here and said, i was expecting news from ace

3 i do a lot of stuff, from scripting, to texturing and i'm even studying with 3d modeling

4 i already helped people, and haven't had my name credited, nor didn't asked for it

5 i already asked many people for help specially with 3d modeling due to the fact is something complicated, to hear sometimes only "Good-luck" or figure it out yourself but even that is not the reason i did this

6 i'm not saying how people need to manage their free time, they already do it, i just stated the obvious, for example "Cunico is managing his free time, the SOC mod team is managing it's free time, my friend and colleague with whom i'm creating campaigns is managing his free time, i'm even helping him with his units "Want to see them check cunico thread for a picture Siege A posted"

7 The reason why i posted this, i was talking with people who said we could be a lot more cooperative with each other, i'm not saying nobody here isn't "So if you come here and say i'm reading between your lines - no your just seeing what you wanna see and is being this annoying about it" i'm being polite, i'm treating you with respect so i expect the same

if you're gonna come in here and accuse me of something, that just you and that other guy see... and whine about it, while the others are actually trying to debate something, i will complain and the same thing that happened to the other one will probably happen to you

8 so i sincerely ask, or try to participate in the thread in the fashioned manner or don't do it at all.

(Ps: i once went for you to help...see number five once again)

Edited August 1, 2014 by Ckrauslo

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

To put it in the simplest language possible: It's not going to frakking happen.

Everybody has different interests. Some like WWII, some like Vietnam, some like WWI, The Gulf War, The Israeli conflicts, fictional conflicts, realism, arcade, etc. etc. etc. If you think for a moment that "all the modders" (aka the addon makers, I'm assuming the terrain makers, the scripters, the texturers, the sound guys, etc. etc. etc.) could actually get together and make an Uber-ACE then I'm sorry to have to inform you that your head has been shoved so far up your own posterior that your eyes have turned brown and you're beginning to see daylight.

ACE was one mod team. Handful of guys. Very talented guys, for the most part, but still a single mod team. ACE is currently still active, so if you want it you'll just have to wait. If you want an uber mod, then go sit in the zone designated for the other 500,000 nitwits who've thought of this idea before you. You want to be an idea guy, then I suggest you go work for the IDF and dream up some propaganda for them.

This thread has no legitimate reason to exist. The question is an ignorant one, and is seriously making me reconsider my stance that there is no such thing as a stupid question. Please, for the love of The Lords of Kobol, pull your head out of your posterior and think before you post ignorant spammy threads such as this.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Darkhorse 1-6

[Ckrauslo 12]

To put it in the simplest language possible: It's not going to fucking happen.

Everybody has different interests. Some like WWII, some like Vietnam, some like WWI, The Gulf War, The Israeli conflicts, fictional conflicts, realism, arcade, etc. etc. etc. If you think for a moment that "all the modders" (aka the addon makers, I'm assuming the terrain makers, the scripters, the texturers, the sound guys, etc. etc. etc.) could actually get together and make an Uber-ACE then I'm sorry to have to inform you that your head has been shoved so far up your own ass that your eyes have turned brown and you're beginning to see daylight.

ACE was one mod team. Handful of guys. Very talented guys, for the most part, but still a single mod team. ACE is currently still active, so if you want it you'll just have to wait. If you want an uber mod, then go sit in the zone designated for the other 500,000 nitwits who've thought of this idea before you. You want to be an idea guy, then I suggest you go work for the IDF and dream up some propaganda for them.

This thread has no legitimate reason to exist. The question is an ignorant one, and is seriously making me reconsider my stance that there is no such thing as a stupid question. Please, for the love of The Lords of Kobol, pull your head out of your ass and think before you post ignorant spammy threads such as this.

Man have you actually read the entire topic?

[ACPL Jon 68]

Answering to the question in the title... Well I don't know man. That's really strange.

I mean, there's nothing hard in it and somehow we still don't live in a utopia, but in poverty and violence stricken world. How's that even possible?

Imagine all the modders...

[PuFu 4600]

1 i'm responsible for what i say, i'm not however for what you understand, i didn't wrote anything "Between the lines"

2 i would believe that is the case if moderation came here and complained about ace being mentioned, or someone came here and said, i was expecting news from ace

3 i do a lot of stuff, from scripting, to texturing and i'm even studying with 3d modeling

4 i already helped people, and haven't had my name credited, nor didn't asked for it

5 i already asked many people for help specially with 3d modeling due to the fact is something complicated, to hear sometimes only "Good-luck" or figure it out yourself but even that is not the reason i did this

6 i'm not saying how people need to manage their free time, they already do it, i just stated the obvious, for example "Cunico is managing his free time, the SOC mod team is managing it's free time, my friend and colleague with whom i'm creating campaigns is managing his free time, i'm even helping him with his units "Want to see them check cunico thread for a picture Siege A posted"

7 The reason why i posted this, i was talking with people who said we could be a lot more cooperative with each other, i'm not saying nobody here isn't "So if you come here and say i'm reading between your lines - no your just seeing what you wanna see and is being this annoying about it" i'm being polite, i'm treating you with respect so i expect the same

if you're gonna come in here and accuse me of something, that just you and that other guy see... and whine about it, while the others are actually trying to debate something, i will complain and the same thing that happened to the other one will probably happen to you

8 so i sincerely ask, or try to participate in the thread in the fashioned manner or don't do it at all.

(Ps: i once went for you to help...see number five once again)

1. fair enough (also, you use present tense after did/n't, as in "write" and not past tense "wrote" - just so I can understand you)

2. there is no reason for that to happen, nor was i saying anything of that sort

3. great

4. great (watch those double negations though, so that i don't need to read between the lines)

5. you still haven't written the reason you started this thread though. I thought i've asked you why have you created this, and not all the reasons that are unrelated to it

6. thumbs up for stating the obvious then - also really unrelated to the topic, isn't it?

7.a. oh, finally, here it is the real reason: lack of cooperation. But what i don't get is what it is stopping you to be more cooperative with those people you've been talking to? Do you cooperate via this thread, or...?

7.b. Listen lad. I've been polite with you so far, even though you don't make much sense. I have no reason to bitch about, since i am not in agreement with you. If anyone, it is you that it is complaining about the so called lack of cooperation between other people.

Btw, politeness and respect are not really the same thing, respect is something that is earned, not given, which really isn't the case. This is a free forum. If i want to comment, i will do so, while respecting the forum rules of course. If you don't want others to comment on this, then post it in your private side of the internet.

Since when did everyone here got so sensitive about other people comments?

7.c. If you want to report my posts (or complain about them), please go ahead, no one is stopping you. But don't get pathetic about it, it's not like from now on i'll feel threaten about it

8. what is the "fashioned manner"? Are you serious? How am I not participating in this "debate"? You really hurt my sensitive feelings, because I thought i was....

9. I honestly don't remember that. I have looked through my pms, i have no entry from your part. I don't remember talking to you on skype either to be perfectly honest. I am not saying it didn't happen though. But if it did, have i sent you away with a "good luck" remark just as well? (was it PM or skype?)

To put it in the simplest language possible: It's not going to frakking happen.

Thank you mate

Edited August 1, 2014 by PuFu

[PTV-Jobo 820]

You want to be an idea guy, then I suggest you go work for the IDF and dream up some propaganda for them.

Speaking of "ignorant" and pulling heads out of ones rectal area, gotta love that little off-topic slide-in from ya. Save it for the non-game related thread sections to air out your political/personal grievances about the world. :rolleyes:

But to go back to the topic at hand, I think some people already mentioned valid reasons. We all have our own ways, methods, goals and visions. Sometimes they mesh with others, other times it can be a bit of a clash and makes working together a bit of a task. Would be great to someday see something like ACE or better. Right now, just seems like everyone is tied up in their own projects and far too busy for one thing. I have to say, I've been using a mix of AGM and CSE with a few of TMR's modules like the grenade tweaks and already feel some of the ol' ACE magic again.

[kiory 405]

What is wrong with everyone?

This is supposed to be a community, but all I see is that same bickering bullshit that I've always seen, is this thread inhabited by children?

This is precisely why you don't see much collaboration, because even now they are all bickering in this very thread, imagine what would happen if they did actually collaborate, they would get a project started and announce it, get everyone's hopes up, bicker and argue, cancel project and waste peoples time, I've seen this happen COUNTLESS times and it's literally because of a difference of opinion, which leads to bickering and name calling, look at what's happening here and apply it to a collaboration, it's not good.

This is mostly why I work alone, because everyone wants what they want, not what others want, when someone makes a mod, it's because they want to make it.

If we truly, and I mean this with all sincerity, wanted a full on collaboration without any issues, we would listen to the community and make or add the features that they wanted. But even then, you'd have to contend with the community, because they are never fucking satisfied.

In the end, it's the modders that get the shit no matter what they are doing, we simply cannot win.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Kiory

[eggbeast 3684]

don't let the ragers do your nut in man, i keep reporting them, and we got rid of one already. i agree that they are the most annoying thing on the BIS forum - it's very easy to get your head bitten off by some people who feel unaccountable for causing this stress to others. anyway, getting back on topic, we're developing some new versions of the A2 aircraft (in A2 admittedly, as like isaid before, it's stable for testing) which will bring a more interesting loadout option for each version. this will come through to A3 eventually i'm sure. fixing up the basics even in A2 to work properly (meaning to our standard if course lol) is taking a long time.... good fun though, as Tankbuster always said, you get 2 games in 1 buying arma. the milsim game and the lego (building) game.

[PuFu 4600]

What is wrong with everyone?

This is supposed to be a community, but all I see is that same bickering bullshit that I've always seen, is this thread inhabited by children?

Is this directed towards someone in particular? I really don't see it as bickering, or i do see it, if you consider this a trivial thread, since that is the definition of bickering..

This is mostly why I work alone, because everyone wants what they want, not what others want, when someone makes a mod, it's because they want to make it.

Should it be any different? Why would i do what someone else wants? There are very few who can agree on the same thing anyways...If you get to choose, then it is most likely that you will choose right for some, and wrong for others. Do you really want to tell me that the work you are doing is against your will, just out of pure altruism?

If we truly, and I mean this with all sincerity, wanted a full on collaboration without any issues, we would listen to the community and make or add the features that they wanted. But even then, you'd have to contend with the community, because they are never fucking satisfied.

In the end, it's the modders that get the shit no matter what they are doing, we simply cannot win.

You are contradicting yourself here: you want to satisfy the community, but then again, you seem to understand that you cannot ever satisfy everyone, even more, you get "shit no matter what you are doing". So then, where is the middle ground

don't let the ragers do your nut in man, i keep reporting them, and we got rid of one already.

you can keep on reporting me, or anyone else for that matter, it doesn't mean much unless you have reason, which you don't, besides your own sensitiveness. Before you do, maybe it is better to read the forum rules yourself once more, then tell me which of the rules break it is that you are reporting me, or anyone else for...

Sensitive creatures....

i agree that they are the most annoying thing on the BIS forum - it's very easy to get your head bitten off by some people who feel unaccountable for causing this stress to others.

If this sort of thread causes you stress, i wonder how you can live with the real life stress. Anyways, you have multiple options here. And no, i don't feel accountable for your own stress...

Edited August 2, 2014 by PuFu

[kiory 405]

Is this directed towards someone in particular? I really don't see it as bickering, or i do see it, if you consider this a trivial thread, since that is the definition of bickering..

You are contradicting yourself here: you want to satisfy the community, but then again, you seem to understand that you cannot ever satisfy everyone, even more, you get "shit no matter what you are doing". So then, where is the middle ground

It's directed at the people who are bitching, just read through what has been said by other posters, not everything is about you. There's a lot of bitching here and you can call it whatever the hell you want, but that's what it is.

I am certainly not contradicting myself, as I've stated previously I am in this for my own amusement, I never said anything about me personally satisfying the community. You'll notice that I said "we", I meant that in terms of everyone else, not necessarily me, in hindsight I should of said "you".

[.kju 3245]

the cooperation is happening mostly in Skype group chats since a few years

[PuFu 4600]

oh, i never said it was about me, far from it.

But then again, i tend NOT to speak in the name of others, just in case my words would simply carry more weight that way. You seem to have taken this up one notch though, because you seem to be excluding yourself while including everyone else!

Bitching <> bickering either way.

[kiory 405]

Alright man, think whatever you want, I'll not be dragged into this "debate".

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

don't let the ragers do your nut in man, i keep reporting them

Let's see... This thread itself violates...

§1) No Flaming/Flame-baiting/bigotry (It's flame-baiting because it's been asked before, is kind of a stupid question, and the OP should expect the negative response from the start.)

§5) No Spam

§7) Search before posting Seriously, this has been asked at least a half dozen times before. It's also been couched as a MANW entry idea, and various other crap.

and of course by your own admission, you are in violation of §23) Do not abuse the "report post to a moderator" function.

I agree with Kiory, on one point at least, and that is that no matter what we do, Addonmakers are always going to get shit on because somebody wanted something different. It's the way it has worked since the before the Twelve Tribes left Kobol, and it's the way it's going to work until The Federation finally springs into existence. It is literally impossible for "all the modders" to get together on one project, because everybody has different levels of skill, different interests, different tools, different methods, and of course different personalities and politics. What this thread is, is somebody who wants an uber mod, is disappointed because there is no ACE for A3, and wants the mod of his dreams. He asked the question, I answered it. Pufu answered it before me, and others before/after him. He doesn't like the answer, so he continues this pointless thread.

As far as you reporting me, that I can understand. I did not violate the rules, I did not personally attack the OP, I simply stated that he must have his head up his ass because he's ignoring the very answer he sought, and because I've seen this question a hundred times before. But because of my choice of words, I accept that you may have taken issue with it and reported it. What I don't really understand is you reporting Pufu. Pufu has been, from what I've seen, very civilized, refrained from using the type of language I prefer in these situations, and has somehow kept his patience while dealing with an OP who doesn't give a shit unless the answer is "YES, ALL MODDERS WILL NOW WORK ON THIS UBER MOD AND YOU CAN BE THE IDEA GUY CAUSE YOU'RE AWESOME DUDE!!!1!11!!!!1!!!". Apparently he has the urge to use the type of language I've used, judging by his thanking me (which I got a good laugh at. you're welcome btw, Pufu) but chooses not to do so, yet you report him anyways. Kinda bullshit, in my opinion.

Let's try another example of how this community, like all communities, works. You might try to generically lump together interests and say modders could possibly get along and do an uber mod, for different wars or eras. Nope.

For the WWII era there are at least 4 major mods, and various smaller mods. Some people prefer to only release individual vehicles. Others, aircraft. Some people prefer more realism, others more arcade. Some prefer A3 ballistics, others custom ballistics. Some use research from source A, others prefer it from source B. Some like The Eastern Front, Some specifically Poland in '39, some The Pacific, some the entire European Theater. Every single person has different preferences. Sometimes a bunch of addonmakers have preferences that are similar enough to work together on a bigger project, and they meld into one big creature with unique DNA that the scientific community refers to as "A Mod Team". However, with there being hundreds, if not thousands, of people doing addons for OFP, ArmA 1, ArmA 2, Operation Arrowhead, and ArmA 3 these days, getting everybody together to work on a single project that they don't like, just because you, the end user wants it, is not going to happen. Not unless you pay them what their work is worth, and guess what, you'll be shitting through millions of dollars in the first couple months alone. What you want isn't a mod, it's a brand new frakking game. You're not going to get it. Your opinions, as an idea guy, don't really matter. Your voice as an end user doesn't matter unless you're giving a specific addonmaker or a group of them input that they're actually looking for. Addonmakers make stuff for their own purposes, their own desires, or their own needs. Stuff is made for friends. Stuff is made to help out other addonmakers. Occasionally an addonmaker may be in a good enough mood to go through the addon request threads for ideas, and make one of those ideas, which happens every so often and is the reason those threads exist. But each individual makes what they want to make, or what they choose to make, and that's one of the reasons why this super-mod isn't going to happen. Please, for the love of Kobol, put an end to this thread.

Imagine all the modders...

Edited August 2, 2014 by Darkhorse 1-6

[Tankbuster 1747]

as Tankbuster always said, you get 2 games in 1 buying arma. the milsim game and the lego (building) game.

That's better than what I actually said! :)