The new ARMA 3 DLC system - debate

[2nd ranger 282]

Because of that almost all mission makers will rather use other content, either official or modded, than risk to have unusable assets inside a mission. This applies to both closed community and pub Missions.

Personally I'm less likely to download a mission that requires ANY addon than one that uses official content that may or may not be available to me.

As well as trying to speak for "almost all mission makers", you're also drastically overstating the number of mission makers who give a damn about what assets the player has immediately available. As DarkWanderer said, many missions require giant lists of addons that will stop you from even loading the mission if you don't have any of them. A mission maker will use any assets he pleases. Like-minded people who enjoy the content included will download his mission, and that should be all he cares about.

[John Kozak 14]

No it is not speculation. I get Feedback from all over this community, and from my community. Mission maker feedback

You´ll almost never see this stuff used in MP. And that would be a shame because you don´t get to use what you paid for.

I somehow don't think 79 people (42.93%) are all strictly non-mission-makers (see the poll above).

[Tonci87 163]

I somehow don't think 79 people (42.93%) are all strictly non-mission-makers (see the poll above).

I think you would loose that bet. So far the only people that have declared to be OK with that system were simply players, while Content creators and community administrators are against it.

[John Kozak 14]

I think you would loose that bet. So far the only people that have declared to be OK with that system were simply players, while Content creators and community administrators are against it.

And moon is made of swiss cheese.

Edited May 30, 2014 by DarkWanderer

[Tonci87 163]

And moon is made of swiss cheese.

So, do you create Missions?

[vegeta897 13]

I think you would loose that bet. So far the only people that have declared to be OK with that system were simply players, while Content creators and community administrators are against it.

See my post.

Your theory is not only flawed in concept, but already disproven by the existence of several workshop missions on day 1 that feature DLC content. Your band of mission makers does not represent all mission makers. We don't need all mission makers to be making DLC missions in order to have enough of them to play. Stop speaking for all content creators, as if you have the authority to do so.

[saltatormortis 12]

CMON you two

can you agree to disagree?

plz stick to topic

a game like BF4 can make all weapons in full quality as pickup

but in arma where you have a full editor there is not such a way as gating

[and to argue that the a2light dlc was mostly avoided too, i think there isnt mutch difference than the a3 model ]

there is another way needed yeah blocking the entry is a way

and its even possible to script a way for a non dlc owner to use it (pickup from enemy/if inflight the pilot place is free you can take control)

Edited May 30, 2014 by SaltatorMortis

[Tonci87 163]

See my post.

Your theory is not only flawed in concept, but already disproven by the existence of several workshop missions on day 1 that feature DLC content. Your band of mission makers does not represent all mission makers. We don't need all mission makers to be making DLC missions in order to have enough of them to play. Stop speaking for all content creators, as if you have the authority to do so.

Day one Missions with DLC stuff are nothing extraordinary, we´ll see in a month.

[John Kozak 14]

So, do you create Missions?

Yes, I do.

[vegeta897 13]

Day one Missions with DLC stuff are nothing extraordinary, we´ll see in a month.

See what? The number of people who own the DLC can only get larger in a month, not smaller. Start providing some real reasons that I haven't already refuted. A negative attitude helps nothing if it has no valid reasoning.

You've been making bold, hugely confident doomsday claims, and instead of responding to my critique of your theory, now you've switched to "we'll see". I guess that's progress.

Edited May 30, 2014 by vegeta897

[Tonci87 163]

Yes, I do.

OK, a quick search tells me that you helped in the creation of one 6v6 PvP mission.

[stilton 0]

How can i see the effects of this ingame?

As i said already, i'm all for this...

I understand a polite warning if you try and pilot a DLC vehicle for example - People should only have access to things they've bought.

But i dont like the idea of riding in the back of a chopper... and having a big advertisement come up in the screen?

Seems like it would be a kind of classless way to ask for more money...

I trust the devs are more subtle than having something that would so obviously break immersion in a game that tries to be, in some respects, minimalistic with intrusive interface(s)

Please god tell me there are not any prompts popping-up asking you to shell out money whilst you're actually playing the mission.

[Jona33 51]

There's a little icon to the right hand side of the screen when you're using DLC stuff, at a guess I would say that you wouldn't get a prompt when you're in the back of a chopper.

One question I do have though, the "features are free, content is paid" line has been going around and it has been stated that things like sling loading will be free, but does that mean every time we use slingloads with the default choppers we get little pop ups saying "buy me"?

EDIT: Actually do you mean when you're not using the DLC stuff at that second? e.g. I've built a race mission with Karts around kavala and I get pop ups because I haven't bought it yet. However if I place a standard unit down (e.g. Miller or a rifleman) then I won't get any pop ups, it's only if you're actively using DLC content. The same would apply if you played a campaign mission, no pop ups.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Jona33

[enex 11]

Please god tell me there are not any prompts popping-up asking you to shell out money whilst you're actually playing the mission.

I'm afraid we will have to settle with that, remember we will be using object that we haven't payed for, and if it displays that clearly

so be it.Of course I would prefer small type of reminder rather then full screen overlays which ruin immersion.

[nodunit 397]

How can i see the effects of this ingame?

As i said already, i'm all for this...

I understand a polite warning if you try and pilot a DLC vehicle for example - People should only have access to things they've bought.

But i dont like the idea of riding in the back of a chopper... and having a big advertisement come up in the screen?

Seems like it would be a kind of classless way to ask for more money...

I trust the devs are more subtle than having something that would so obviously break immersion in a game that tries to be, in some respects, minimalistic with intrusive interface(s)

Please god tell me there are not any prompts popping-up asking you to shell out money whilst you're actually playing the mission.

Could always use in world marketting that wouldn't intrude so much on gameplay, for example small posters and billboards marketting the go kart race as though it were an upcoming big event with the price of admission being the DLC and a link to the website.

For military weaponry we could see propaganda and enlistment posters and billboards, maybe printed on a magazine inside some vehicles or hanging as a banner somewhere.. the kind of thing you would see in the real world.

Edited May 30, 2014 by NodUnit

[stilton 0]

does that mean every time we use slingloads with the default choppers we get little pop ups saying "buy me"?

To be fair, that's basically what i was asking on behalf of passengers in my DLC chopper.. :D

Could always use in world marketting that wouldn't intrude so much on gameplay, for example small posters and billboards marketting the go kart race as though it were an upcoming big event with the price of admission being the DLC and a link to the website, and for military weaponry we could see propaganda and enlistment posters and billboards, the kind of thing you would see in the real world.

That's a pretty decent idea.

It's just a worry that it'll start going in a horrible direction.

I'm not so much against a new way to incentivize payment... as i am against rampant cheap/classless advertising :)

That sort of thing actually has the opposite effect on me...

I can see it working for the go-kart race but not so much for the guns and 'propoganda posters' though.. and again, i cant really see it being done in such a way without it being a horrible immersion-killer for me personally

I've tried it out, it's 'ok' on the karts mission, because its a kind of 'fun' little thing with the cute bright-blue reminder in the right, its not too obtrusive...

But i would consider a bright-blue icon a bit too obtrusive if that was an actual 'arma mission'.

Still, hopefully BIS aren't thinking of including that in the 'real' DLCs? - I mean its blue/fugly.

And it's not even completely locked out or rather, there's no real 'incentive' there to buy the karts thing?

It's basically the same as a donate button at the moment... which isn't really a step forward as much as a step sideways in my opinion.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Stilton
I tried it out.

[almanzo 144]

I think I have made up my statistics for the authors of posts with a negative opinion on the matter in this thread:

- 60% didn't read all the information on the DLC strategy

- 80% are unreasonable and think that everything should be handed to them for free (c'mon guys, BI is and stays a company; they need to make money, otherwise there won't be an Arma anymore!)

- 19% don't realise that this is one of the fairest DLC models there is in the gaming industry

- 1% is actually considerate and comes up with a different suggestion that is still profitable for BI

First point, I am pretty sure most people here have read the information. It's rather rude to insinuate that other people are lazy in order to try to win an argument.

Second: Point me to one person actually stating that not being able to play content they haven't payed for is an issue for them? Most people who complain plan to buy the DLC, but are worried mission makers will keep away from using them due to balancing issues.

third: Most people do indeed realize that BI tries as hard as they can to avoid splitting the community, and nobody except one post accused BIS of being greedy (and that person also appologized for his post and retracted his statement). BIS asked for feedback, as they allways do, and with BIS and their track record, I am pretty sure they are following this thread quite closely. No one here wants to cheat BIS out of their money.

Forth: This is a sticky situation. My suggestion is to run with the old system, that way I know I'll be able to play with the content I'm buying. I wouldn't hessitate to buy that season pass for both my ARMA III accounts the moment I know everyone will have access some way.

And your DayZ argument doesn't make sense. DayZ came a very long time after Arrowhead was released and instead of being a DLC it was a full fledged stand alone expantion pack offering shitloads of content. And the majority of DayZ players didn't even own ARMA II in the first place, they litterarly bought the game in order to play the mod, the game itself didn't interest them. It's not even remotely comparable.

---------- Post added at 13:27 ---------- Previous post was at 13:25 ----------

That point is a huge speculation.

Mission makers use big addon sets while they can't be sure that players would be in the mood for downloading them - how about that?

Mission makers simply can't be sure the person who pilots the chopper will not abruptly shut down the game

Mission makers simply can't be sure their mission will get played, y'know? ;)

Addon/mission making is not a certainty business.

Addons and mods are not behind a paywall, DLC content are. Very huge difference.

[pd3 25]

It's a good way to keep people connected to potential products, I don't mind honestly as long as it doesn't bog down system performance in doing so.

Karts are a good start, but I seriously want to see a fictitious mercenary DLC.

Not your contemporary private military company, but something more influenced by the world of Metal Gear and Army of Two, F.E.A.R, etc.

It doesn't have to be much, just some sweet gear, camo patterns and a vehicle or two.

[almanzo 144]

See my post.

Your theory is not only flawed in concept, but already disproven by the existence of several workshop missions on day 1 that feature DLC content. Your band of mission makers does not represent all mission makers. We don't need all mission makers to be making DLC missions in order to have enough of them to play. Stop speaking for all content creators, as if you have the authority to do so.

I am pretty sure game modes like Altis Life and so forth will have the new DLC's, in many scenarios and missions I agree that it's not an issue. It's mostly an issue for communities and for large scale PvP. I can pretty much guarantee you that you will not be able to use your DLC content on Tactical Battlefield or as a member of a coop community. Now, alot of people in said communities are going to buy the DLC regardless. They will have limited use for them though. A community can't adopt policies that excludes a huge portion of their player base, recruitment is hard enough as it is. I don't know, but I am pretty sure that people who play in communties represent a rather big portion of the ARMA community.

ARMA III have caused an influx in new players, but coop communities has allways been the backbone of ARMA, along with people who play singleplayer content.

And I would like to end this post with a polite request, can we please stop accusing people of wanting a free ride? It's pretty obvious that those who voice concerns are considering not to buy out of fair that they won't be able to use the new DLC content if they buy.

[gdscei 1]

I think you would loose that bet. So far the only people that have declared to be OK with that system were simply players, while Content creators and community administrators are against it.

I am pretty sure DarkWanderer is true here. See my post, and look at my sig. I am part of a team of one of the biggest mods in Arma history (not bragging there btw, it's just literally a big mod ;)), and I voted I think the DLC strategy is good (note: that is my personal opinion, not necessarily that of the modding team I am with). I am sure there are many other content creators that think the same.

[Nashable 10]

I am pretty sure DarkWanderer is true here. See my post, and look at my sig. I am part of a team of one of the biggest mods in Arma history (not bragging there btw, it's just literally a big mod ;)), and I voted I think the DLC strategy is good (note: that is my personal opinion, not necessarily that of the modding team I am with). I am sure there are many other content creators that think the same.

Will you be including the new DLC items in a mission critical way to your mod?

[jgaz-uk 132]

No it is not speculation. I get Feedback from all over this community, and from my community. Mission maker feedback

You´ll almost never see this stuff used in MP. And that would be a shame because you don´t get to use what you paid for.

Agree again.

Have to agree with aforesaid. As one of the many amateur mission makers (40 A2 & 5 A3) Have & will use addons providing the are freely available on the net (as lite or downloadable from servers via the 6 etc). I don't use when making coop missions available by purchase only addons at all. Even though I have personally purchased all (except the DayZ) ArmA DLC.

To keep everyone happy run with the old A2 DLC system making a lite version available. Your loyal fan base will usually pay for the full version anyway :rolleyes:

Edited May 30, 2014 by jgaz-uk

[eXpouk 10]

No it is not speculation. I get Feedback from all over this community, and from my community. Mission maker feedback

You´ll almost never see this stuff used in MP. And that would be a shame because you don´t get to use what you paid for.

You're making your argument all about you and your situation which isn't really a true reflection of what will happen.

This is because I could argue that I'm part of a community that I make missions for, it just so happens everyone in my community bought the DLC so everyone can play the missions I make. That means there's a 100% chance of my mission getting played even though it contains DLC assets and everyone gets to use what they paid for.

Two sides to every coin and that...

Edited May 30, 2014 by eXpouk

[Makarn 10]

The old system didn't work (to some people and developers), and the new system may not look too good to everyone, I get that.

But is also true that many people doesn't bring an alternative that not invole bringing the old system back.

Just a thought

Edited May 30, 2014 by Makarn

[ProfTournesol 956]

To keep everyone happy run with the old A2 DLC system making a lite version available. Your loyal fan base will usually pay for the full version anyway :rolleyes:

Well i have mixed feelings about that. I never played missions that implied Lite version of DLC's, those low res textures are preventing me from playing those missions.