Third person mode & realism

[big_t 1]

Does anyone have a good way of filtering 1rst person only servers? as of now I don't think there is a way or is there? please let me know.

Why do the 1st person players feel they have the need, or even the right, to dictate to all the rest of us? If they have the option and opportunity to play on servers that cater to their playstyle, why does how someone else, on some other server plays concern them at all?

So people are not really "telling you how to play", just frustrated that most servers have 3rd enabled as they cater to the masses, so 1rst person players feel they have to play in 3rd person to keep they playing field even. Please feel free to enjoy that magic periscope crutch. But give us a way to find 1pp servers :)

Also I think some of the fanatical bias towards 1PP comes from the visceral and intense experiences that people get from playing 1PP on Arma 3. Once you get a taste for it , playing 3PP seems to dull the senses and go into "relax easy mode". So some people (myself included) feel compelled to get others to play in 1PP. Similar to people who suddenly find religion and with wide glossy eyes try to get everyone else to convert and see the light ;)

T

Edited June 4, 2014 by Big_T

[vegeta897 13]

So people are not really "telling you how to play", just frustrated that most servers have 3rd enabled as they cater to the masses, so 1rst person players feel they have to play in 3rd person to keep they playing field even. Please feel free to enjoy that magic periscope crutch. But give us a way to find 1pp servers :)

Also I think some of the fanatical bias towards 1PP comes from the visceral and intense experiences that people get from playing 1PP on Arma 3. Once you get a taste for it , playing 3PP seems to dull the senses and go into "relax easy mode". So some people (myself included) feel compelled to get others to play in 1PP.

Both points I strongly agree with.

I've done enough preaching and debating on the dayz subreddit though, so I'm not going to bother anymore outside of new players in my group.

[pooroldspike 129]

Incidentally, I don't know if anybody's mentioned it yet, but apart from 3rd person there's also the Tactical View (below at max zoomout) which centres on you and your boys (circled) and can be panned around to give a "mini-drone view" of the area.

And as regards ordinary 3rd person view, the military already simulates it by using periscopes to peek over walls and stuff (below), so why shouldn't we?

Like I said before with my mini-drone pics on the previous page, future warfare (where AA3 is set) will be a very scary place, so the 3rd person and Tac Views simulate that "no hiding place" aspect to perfection...UGH...my adrenaline just kicked in at the thought and I feel faint, welcome to modern and future warfare everybody, can you hack it?..:)

http://www.swatscope.com/

Edited June 4, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[vegeta897 13]

But the game already has drones like that, and those guys are using periscopes in a situation where they're not holding their weapons, ready to fire at the dude they see coming around the corner. Those periscopes would be a cool in-game item to use to see around corners and over walls. Why would you want stuff like that to be emulated with a magical floating camera? This is a simulator after all. If we're supposed to be using that equipment, let us actually use it, not use it as an excuse for an unrealistic mechanic.

[pooroldspike 129]

I'll run some tests later to find out exactly what Arma3's mini-drones can or can't do..:)

[vegeta897 13]

I haven't used them much, but the few times in which my team was coordinated enough to do so, it was quite fun. One of our team members was flying it around in an urban environment, staying low to avoid drawing fire, warning us of nearby enemies and plotting our path through the town. It was highly team-work oriented and definitely an interesting experience.

I'd love to have a portable para-scope type device that can easily be taken out and put away to check corners.

[pooroldspike 129]

Okay I just ran some mini-drone tests in the 'Weapon Tests' thread here-
http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?175240-Weapon-tests/page9
and they're fun, you can even open doors with them and fly inside.. :)

(PS- if the link doesn't take you to page 9 of that sensational thread, flick the pages to it manually)

[Fogtripper 0]

An idea to make the use of 3rd person "fair":
At the disembodied location of the "camera" a person is using to view his/her surroundings, have an obvious visual indicator that others could see.

This would even out the extreme upside of 3rd person view. One should not be able to have a viewport of a disembodied invisible point in relation to the person's avatar. I understand the arguments some make about likening it to a "periscope" (stretched to it's unrealistic extreme). However for the immense upside, it needs some balancing with being visual. Games like King of the Hill would benefit greatly from something like this, as it would remove the possibility of abuse and bring it more in line of real world limitations. In addition, if it were a visible object, allow it to be destroyed by enemies.

 

I would have created a new thread for this suggestion, but cannot create topics yet.

[MartinFromZeusCommunity 15]

had a fun little idea, what if you make the third person view, exactly like the first person view, but just slab the guy right on top of it? tried putting together a couple gimped images of what that would look like.

http://i.imgur.com/EAyirLV.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/v2W7g7A.jpg

guy may look a little small, but not bad at all. having the guy on your view is also not disadvantage at all, since first person would have gun.

This view might however get a bit weird once motion comes in. guessing it would seem like you were dragging the guy around (like a hud element) when looking, as opposed to orbiting him.

Not sure exactly where on the screen it would be best to have him positioned. There's also a problem with the exposure of the guy not matching the actual exposure, so maybe he should be positioned so he is always as exposed as the player is. so you dont let your guard down.

 

 

 

Myself, I always play first person, even when third is enabled. I am very tempted towards third for the ability to see your guy and face, but the loss in immersion and gameplay are just too much. A system like above might just be worth the weirdness for me though, if it would allow me to constantly see my own guy without cheating.

 

I don't think lack of situational awareness justifies third person, since there are many things that limit it in real life that are not done in arma, and many things in and about arma that boosts it or gives you advantages over rl, so even narrow first person has more situational awareness than in real life. As for drivers with narrow views, I think it as simple as relying on the instructions from the commander, or gunner if he is not available. Operating a vehicle is a team effort after all, do it alone and expect disadvantage. more dslyecxi videos ftw:

 

The only real benefit I see with third person, is the ability to see your own character, which both adds and takes away from immersion at the same time.

[lexx 1390]

I never liked playing in first person only.... until I bought myself TrackIR (do I get money for writing this?). No, really. It's a completely different feeling now and just way more fun to play in first person. Even driving cars, etc. is *a lot* more fun (so much even that I am toying with the idea to buy a steering wheel controller just for that).

 

There is but one problem: Driving tanks and AFVs is the pure definition of pain and unfun. Peaking through this static hole is just so damn annoying. Vehicles like the Gorgon are still more or less ok, for as long as you are in the Turn Out position- this gives you a bit more of a situational awareness, but vehicles which do not have that... urgs. Another thing is playing alone vs. in a team with voice chat of course. Having a full vehicle crew with a commander who tells you what to do is a different thing again... most of the time you won't have that, though.

 

tl;dr - if I had the choice, I'd only play in first person now, unless I am the driver of a tiny static window, then I need third person.

 

Maybe giving tanks a 3d interior could change my perspective on it again, as it would give back something more dynamic, but as long as that's not the case...

[angel24marin 34]

.

 

Maybe giving tanks a 3d interior could change my perspective on it again, as it would give back something more dynamic, but as long as that's not the case...

Modern tanks driver view through a periscope, so a 3D interior will be useless. But the current driver view need to be changed (looks like a WW2 Tiger I window). The correct implementation should be like the periscope of the strider, but with 180 degrees.

[ProfTournesol 956]

 

I don't think lack of situational awareness justifies third person, since there are many things that limit it in real life that are not done in arma, and many things in and about arma that boosts it or gives you advantages over rl, so even narrow first person has more situational awareness than in real life.

 

The only real benefit I see with third person, is the ability to see your own character, which both adds and takes away from immersion at the same time.

 

I disagree, it's very obvious you haven't more situational awareness in the game than in RL, unless you're a robot. You don't 'feel' anything, so the 3d view is very important, even if your suggestion of changing the 3d view in Vanilla is good IMO.

 

[Mirek 166]

I tried to play 3rd person a lot, settled for 1st person at the end. Bigest problem of 3rd person is its deformation of your perspective. Something you clearly see from 3rd person is completely obstructed when you rightclick to get to the ironsights/scope, wich made me loose a target of oportunity few times. Also 3rd person Kills immersion 100% for me.

[lexx 1390]

A 180 degree field of view for the driver sounds awesome, compared to what we have now. Would such a thing be possible in the engine? I mean dynamic FOV, etc.... Certainly should be considered, imo.

[BL4DE 91]

I never understood the need for third person camera in Arma. Imagine if Valve added third person camera to Counter-strike? What drama it would cause.

It's unrealistic, immersion breaking and cheapens TVT completely

 

But since BIS made half the community addicted to it I doubt they will ever remove it.

You can zoom out or toggle it to temporarily increase FOV. You should also turn down head bob to stop complaining about motion sickness. You could also buy Ultra wide 21:9 monitor and with TrackIR the issues are non existant. I suppose BIS could add an FOV slider to set the default FOV while not zoomed in.

 

But then you still have people complaining they can't land helicopter or drive a tank without third person view. Well yeah they should have blindspots like in real life.

 

Unfortunately tanks in Arma kinda suck when you are stuck to 1 viewport with no interior to bore you to death while playing in a tank for extended periods.

[lexx 1390]

Thing with the tanks is--- well, I just checked out the Kamysh again and based on the camera position, he is sitting in the middle. There are windows left and right of the front "hole" - technically I *should* be able to see out of them, but I can't. The driver optics don't allow for that.

 

Here, I did throw a few shitty screenshots together for a better comparison:

 

 

Like I said, driver is in the center. Red arrows are the windows, green arrow is what you can see. Top right screen is the driver camera position (with a normal camera attached via attachTo). Bottom right is the actual driver view.

 

You see? I see less than I should be able to. Give me a 3d interior with being able to look left and right and I would be happy. Hell, give me a 3d box that is all black with the three holes in them, where I can look around or just give me a bigger FOV and I would be happy.

 

/Edit: Now that Apex is out and we got a Marksmen DLC, and a Helicopter DLC, there are at least two more DLCs I really want to see:

1. Something with water and ships and

2. a DLC about armored vehicles, which should incorporate what I wrote above.

[ProfTournesol 956]

I never understood the need for third person camera in Arma. Imagine if Valve added third person camera to Counter-strike? What drama it would cause.

It's unrealistic, immersion breaking and cheapens TVT completely

 

But since BIS made half the community addicted to it I doubt they will ever remove it.

You can zoom out or toggle it to temporarily increase FOV. You should also turn down head bob to stop complaining about motion sickness. You could also buy Ultra wide 21:9 monitor and with TrackIR the issues are non existant. I suppose BIS could add an FOV slider to set the default FOV while not zoomed in.

 

But then you still have people complaining they can't land helicopter or drive a tank without third person view. Well yeah they should have blindspots like in real life.

 

Unfortunately tanks in Arma kinda suck when you are stuck to 1 viewport with no interior to bore you to death while playing in a tank for extended periods.

 

I don't see why you're entitled to dictate how players must play this game, as long as you can disable it, everybody is happy.

[BL4DE 91]

Might aswell add an "action mode" to the difficulty setting so that we could have servers with bunnyhopping, 360 no scope, takes half a magazine to kill someone so that players have more choices to play the game?

[ProfTournesol 956]

Might aswell add an "action mode" to the difficulty setting so that we could have servers with bunnyhopping, 360 no scope, takes half a magazine to kill someone so that players have more choices to play the game?

 

Exactly. People can play this game the way they want, without having people come and patronize them on what they think 'realism' means.

[Fogtripper 0]

I tried to play 3rd person a lot, settled for 1st person at the end. Bigest problem of 3rd person is its deformation of your perspective. Something you clearly see from 3rd person is completely obstructed when you rightclick to get to the ironsights/scope, wich made me loose a target of oportunity few times. Also 3rd person Kills immersion 100% for me.

Same. The only time I absolutely use 3P on any server it is enabled, is when I am in a heli. And only then so I know when to para drop or bail out. Hummingbirds are fine, but riding in the back of a troop carrier simply doesn't allow one to look out the windows like it would be feasible to do IRL.

[Fogtripper 0]

I don't see why you're entitled to dictate how players must play this game, as long as you can disable it, everybody is happy.

Where did he state he was entitled to dictate anything at all? The sad fact is that those addicted to 3P like yourself think themselves entitled to the advantages imparted by 3P and everyone who would rather that unfair advantage be done away with to just suck it up. What you fail to acknowledge is the aspect of this being a multiplayer game (unless you are one of the .00000000000% that play this solo for some reason) and having a nonsensical advantage over others is shortsighted, selfish and downright childish.

 

Personally I wish more admins would turn off 3P. But leave a few as 3P so the bads continue to play on those.

Exactly. People can play this game the way they want, without having people come and patronize them on what they think 'realism' means.

No, not when you are playing multiplayer. You can play as you want, as long as it fits the system that individual server admins have it set up.

[lexx 1390]

I had a fun idea today: What if the driver of a tank takes the UAV class, assembles a drone and lets it fly in 500m height and follow the tank as close as possible. Then, when stuck in first person only, he would simply set the drone to track the tank, switch to whatever vision mode the driver prefers and activates the drone cam on his screen. BAM, super situational awareness from 0 to 100 for as long as nobody kills the drone. :D

 

Then I tested it---- can't have the drone cam active when being the driver in first person. Oh well, there the idea goes down the shitter.

 

Now that's something that would have made the Darter, etc. a bit more useful.

[dmarkwick 261]

Where did he state he was entitled to dictate anything at all? The sad fact is that those addicted to 3P like yourself think themselves entitled to the advantages imparted by 3P and everyone who would rather that unfair advantage be done away with to just suck it up. What you fail to acknowledge is the aspect of this being a multiplayer game (unless you are one of the .00000000000% that play this solo for some reason) and having a nonsensical advantage over others is shortsighted, selfish and downright childish.

 

Personally I wish more admins would turn off 3P. But leave a few as 3P so the bads continue to play on those.

No, not when you are playing multiplayer. You can play as you want, as long as it fits the system that individual server admins have it set up.

Steady on, overreaction :) the fact is that 3PP is a server setting, which when enabled applies to everyone in the game. This means this is how the owner of the server wishes it to be, and all others can "suck it up" ;). No-one has an advantage because everyone has the same ability.

Now, I'm firmly in the 1PP side of the"argument", despite being one of the .0000000000% solo players. No-one is failing to acknowledge a single thing.

 

 

having a nonsensical advantage over others is shortsighted, selfish and downright childish

 It would be, if it were the case.

[nodunit 397]

This again?  Why this again, why always this again.  As stated above its a server option so the people in multiplayer have the option to turn it off, if you play on a server that does not have it disabled then consider contacting an administrator and requesting it, alternatively find a server that does have it disabled.   If none do then perhaps that says more about the MP comunnity than the single players that like it.

[en3x 209]

This again?  Why this again, why always this again.  As stated above its a server option so the people in multiplayer have the option to turn it off, if you play on a server that does not have it disabled then consider contacting an administrator and requesting it, alternatively find a server that does have it disabled.   If none do then perhaps that says more about the MP comunnity than the single players that like it.

 

For a few reasons : D You have been here around for a while.Because people are very passionate about their choice of whether

first or third person, and because if you feel tired of discussion you can choose to no partake.