How to aim GBUs in all CAS aircraft

[LoneGhostOne 10]

so i was screwing around with how to drop GBUs accurately in the wipeout, buzzard, and the nephron and found something out, this is what i did:

with the wipeout get 800 meters up and more than 2.5 km away, then level off heading towards target. when at 1.5km away begin dive placing the small "v" at the bottom of the HUD on your target. when the target is within 700m drop the GBU and watch the fireworks :D

repeat with buzzard, but use small thing off dash that sticks up

repeat with nephron, but use the second L in the word roll at the bottom of the HUD

i tried each of these multiple times and it seems to on each reliably drop the GBU within about 10-15 ish meters of the target. also on each one you want to be flying at about 300kph except the nephron should be above its stall speed. and when you pull up you typically end up at about 500m in the air so you're still a fairly hard target to hit

i hope this helps any other pilots because you cant always get a ground-pounder to laze a target for you and those GBUs pack a punch.

[LoneGhostOne 10]

i will hopefully be posting a youtube video on this soonish for anyone who might not fully understand this explanation.

[Belbo 462]

Combine that with this guide and you'll never miss a target again. :)

[subs17 9]

Combine that with this guide and you'll never miss a target again. :)

No you'll still miss tgts doing it like that unless you are lucky, whats needed is a CCRP mode for the HUD that counts down to the tgt and you hold the bomb release button and when its over the tgt the bombs drop automatically. IMO CCIP mode is also needed to make CAS and strike capabilities meet their full potential and a realistic view distance.

[defk0n_NL 2]

No you'll still miss tgts doing it like that unless you are lucky, whats needed is a CCRP mode for the HUD that counts down to the tgt and you hold the bomb release button and when its over the tgt the bombs drop automatically. IMO CCIP mode is also needed to make CAS and strike capabilities meet their full potential and a realistic view distance.

isnt this for dropping bombs?

http://i.imgur.com/EchHUuw.jpg (110 kB)

i always use that reticle for dive bombing. never fails me once you drop a couple you know when you will overshoot or undershoot

[Belbo 462]

No you'll still miss tgts doing it like that unless you are lucky, whats needed is a CCRP mode for the HUD that counts down to the tgt and you hold the bomb release button and when its over the tgt the bombs drop automatically. IMO CCIP mode is also needed to make CAS and strike capabilities meet their full potential and a realistic view distance.

That's exactly the opposite of what I was saying. Exactly that is almost not needed with a bit of practice. CCRP or CCIP are only necessary as long as you haven't put enough time into practising your target-hitrate. ;)

[karbiner 11]

isnt this for dropping bombs?

http://i.imgur.com/EchHUuw.jpg (110 kB)

i always use that reticle for dive bombing. never fails me once you drop a couple you know when you will overshoot or undershoot

That thingy shows where your plane is heading so you can act before nasty things happen :) You can use it to fly very low if you keep it above all the obstacles/trees.

OT: Divebombing is the way in Arma and its not hard to get really good at it ;)

[martin_lee 33]

Isn't that some time back in ArmA history (ArmA 1 or early ArmA 2?) we can select target with dumb bomb? I think that feature was pulled because the bomb was found to be tracking like a guided bomb towards the target.

That guiding problem aside, that system functionally is quite similar to CCRP isn't it? You select a target, you get prompted when you are near the release point (the diamond at the target box).

Re-implement this again (san the guiding dumb bomb issue) is a quick and easy way to get some CCRP-like functionality when you don't have a laser guidance.

... CCRP mode for the HUD that counts down to the tgt and you hold the bomb release button and when its over the tgt the bombs drop automatically.

Just to elaborate a bit more on what he said. CCRP in real life is that when you tell the computer a point you want your bomb to hit, and it will calculate when you should release. But rather than having the pilot to struggle to press the release button at that split-second, the release button is more of a "consent button". You press and hold the button before you reach the release point, and say to the computer, "oh, right, please release when we are there. I'll get the popcorn". Not much hard work is needed from the pilot, except to keep the plane in the right heading, and keep that thumb on the button whilst going over his other businesses one-handed. :p

Edited May 9, 2014 by martin_lee
missed something :(

[Belbo 462]

You press and hold the button before you reach the release point, and say to the computer, "oh, right, please release when we are there. I'll get the popcorn". Not much hard work is needed from the pilot, except to keep the plane in the right heading, and keep that thumb on the button whilst going over his other businesses one-handed. :p

Exactly. I never really got the hang of that with the ACE-aircrafts in A2OA. It seemed kind of like the dumb little brother of auto-aim for pilots.

[dunedain 48]

You just gotta pratice how the inertia works in the game as the HUD sight for bombs is utterly useless at it is.

I also really struggle locking targets airborne or ground although I can see them on the radar they don't show inside the HUD of the aircrafts so I'm forced to beat the TAB key until I lock something which can be pretty frustrating when you know somewhere there is a Tigris ready to fire four AA missiles at you and you only lock friendly vehicles 2 klicks behind the target area. ACE had this fixed in the previous games...

I really hope the third DLC is gonna focus on fixed wing aircrafts. I find it particularly satisfying to fly in Arma3, but those issues with aiming of dumb bombs and even missiles has to be fixed. ACE did all this and more, your cannon would adjust itself to the distance your HUD crosshair was aiming at. This stuff should be standard imo...

Edited May 9, 2014 by dunedain

[Harzach 2517]

It seemed kind of like the dumb little brother of auto-aim for pilots.

Not sure what you mean. It's essentially a hybrid of CCIP/CCRP consent release modes as used IRL. An unstable delivery will result in a miss.

[Belbo 462]

Not sure what you mean. It's essentially a hybrid of CCIP/CCRP consent release modes as used IRL. An unstable delivery will result in a miss.

Of course in real world operations precision and safety is paramount. But it kind of takes the callenge out of the game. And a game it still is and the fun of it equally emerges from the challenge, the immersion and the realism. None of those factors should surmount the others and every single one is equally important. That's all I'm saying. ;)

[Harzach 2517]

That's all I'm saying.

My point was that it isn't as simple as martin_lee described. And there are things a mission maker can (and should) do to maintain that balance.

[Sneakson 1]

Exactly. I never really got the hang of that with the ACE-aircrafts in A2OA. It seemed kind of like the dumb little brother of auto-aim for pilots.

That's for people that want to survive ;)

[postalsam 10]

I just fly above my target and dive bomb them, works every time

[subs17 9]

That's exactly the opposite of what I was saying. Exactly that is almost not needed with a bit of practice. CCRP or CCIP are only necessary as long as you haven't put enough time into practising your target-hitrate. ;)

With a CCRP mode what they can do is have a HUD or helmet indicator and then the pilot slews that onto the tgt with cursor keys. And this marker can then act as both markpoint and tgt point which is good for CAS. The CCRP mode allows the pilot to deliver ordnance from much higher altitude so then you can avoid the low level SAMs/AAA. So there is no need to dive at the tgt:rolleyes:

You just follow the CCRP cues in the HUD. What is possible in other sims is to transmit the markpoint to other aircraft in multiplayer and then they can attack the tgts at the same point.

So precision is the goal since this is a futuristic time period we would hope to have the ability to make full use of these aircraft in the CAS/Strike role and deliver weapons to tgt in a realistic manner.

---------- Post added at 10:50 ---------- Previous post was at 10:42 ----------

Re-implement this again (san the guiding dumb bomb issue) is a quick and easy way to get some CCRP-like functionality when you don't have a laser guidance.

Just to elaborate a bit more on what he said. CCRP in real life is that when you tell the computer a point you want your bomb to hit, and it will calculate when you should release. But rather than having the pilot to struggle to press the release button at that split-second, the release button is more of a "consent button". You press and hold the button before you reach the release point, and say to the computer, "oh, right, please release when we are there. I'll get the popcorn". Not much hard work is needed from the pilot, except to keep the plane in the right heading, and keep that thumb on the button whilst going over his other businesses one-handed. :p

You need a line in the centre to fly towards and you must keep that line centred with your flight path marker, the wings must be level for CCRP to be accurate its like the marksmanship principles for firing a rifle only you're using and aircraft. Same applys for manual and CCIP/DTOS modes the wings must be level before during and after(for a second) release of the bombs. Something even more interesting is some aircraft like the SU25T can fly CCRP on autopilot so all the pilot has to do is push the bomb release button and hold.

---------- Post added at 10:55 ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 ----------

I just fly above my target and dive bomb them, works every time

Whats ideal though is to have more done to the HUD so that you can do more than dive bomb tgts such as flying realistic attack profiles in multiplayer such as popup attacks etc. Does dive bombing work for you if the tgt is defended? Ideally you want to be hitting the tgt without being hit by AAA/SAMs and rtb safely. You want to be able to hit the right tgt in CAS to support the troops.

One more thing how about a horizontal situation display? That would be a big help for pilots as well as using waypoints in the HUD.

[martin_lee 33]

Dive bombing is the way to bomb before advancement in bomb sights and computer. It works, and doesn't need a lot of practices. I remembered being called a cheater back in Battlefield 1942 :p

But with CCRP you can do much more. You are no longer required to fly over a target, no need to fly at a moderate altitude etc. It is much more flexible with CCRP. You can fly high or low; you can fly level or pull up and toss a bomb.

Whilst ArmA is not a flight sim, CCRP do have its place in ArmA I think. From a medium altitude, you can toss a bomb way outside of the range of AA weaponary in the target site. You can fly low and behind the cover of a hill, toss the bomb behind it, and it can hit a target on the other side.

To deliver the bomb this far, you need to coordinates with some ground units. The other side can no longer feel safe with a few on-site AA units. Air cover becomes more important etc... All these can add quite a lot of immersion into both the ground units and the air units I think

[the_demongod 31]

The real way to aim GBUs:

http://defense-update.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/serpent-M.jpg (145 kB)

:D

But in all seriousness, my best recommendation for freefall bombing is practice, practice, practice and practice. Use the editor and just place a few trucks and bomb them. It will come to you faster than you'd think, and your intuition is much easier to use in a pinch than calculation, etc.

Start your egress at 1km from the target, at ~500-600m AGL, and fly directly toward your target. You should be aiming a little above the target. When you are ready, drop and pull up.

Drop your bombs a little before you think you should. They fall slower than you think.

If you do it enough, I can promise that you will be able to hit within 50m of a house (assuming you drop 2-3 bombs) almost every time, with hardly a thought.

[lonesquad 10]

[...]But in all seriousness, my best recommendation for freefall bombing is practice, practice, practice and practice. Use the editor and just place a few trucks and bomb them. It will come to you faster than you'd think, and your intuition is much easier to use in a pinch than calculation, etc.

Start your egress at 1km from the target, at ~500-600m AGL, and fly directly toward your target. You should be aiming a little above the target. When you are ready, drop and pull up.

Drop your bombs a little before you think you should. They fall slower than you think.

If you do it enough, I can promise that you will be able to hit within 50m of a house (assuming you drop 2-3 bombs) almost every time, with hardly a thought.

While I agree that this will work, it is also incredibly dangerous. Attacking an APC or, even worse, anything else with an AA unit nearby by "flying directly toward you target" also means that the enemy can aim directly at your face.

This should be the last resort if all instruments are damaged or something, but not the standard attacking method.

[subs17 9]

The real way to aim GBUs:

http://defense-update.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/serpent-M.jpg (145 kB)

:D

But in all seriousness, my best recommendation for freefall bombing is practice, practice, practice and practice. Use the editor and just place a few trucks and bomb them. It will come to you faster than you'd think, and your intuition is much easier to use in a pinch than calculation, etc.

Start your egress at 1km from the target, at ~500-600m AGL, and fly directly toward your target. You should be aiming a little above the target. When you are ready, drop and pull up.

Drop your bombs a little before you think you should. They fall slower than you think.

If you do it enough, I can promise that you will be able to hit within 50m of a house (assuming you drop 2-3 bombs) almost every time, with hardly a thought.

If you have a CCIP pipper dive bombing is way more accurate.:cool:

[Harzach 2517]

While I agree that this will work, it is also incredibly dangerous. Attacking an APC or, even worse, anything else with an AA unit nearby by "flying directly toward you target" also means that the enemy can aim directly at your face.

This should be the last resort if all instruments are damaged or something, but not the standard attacking method.

Don't fly into an area with active AA. Kind of a no-brainer. As for not orienting yourself toward the target, how else would you propose to employ dumb iron?

[LoneGhostOne 10]

now while we're talking about IRL and stuff IIRC most ground attack planes that use GBUs have some sort of laser designation device on them so they dont have to rely on a ground unit to target for them.

ahh here it is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/AAS-38 yeah, most ground attack aircraft mount one of those so they can laze their own targets

[lonesquad 10]

Don't fly into an area with active AA. Kind of a no-brainer. As for not orienting yourself toward the target, how else would you propose to employ dumb iron?

Kind of a useless advice if your missions objective is to fly in such areas. Do you edit the AA out of missions you want to play?

This: "Start your egress at 1km from the target, at ~500-600m AGL, and fly directly toward your target." (the_Demongod) makes you an easy target, but works.

I don't recall using the word "orienting", it's about flying at it directly, as if you were to use your plane as the bomb. Even APCs are dangerous enemies if you are flying this low.

I propose to employ unguided bombs in a way that reflects modern CAS. It's 2035 ingame, not 1935. CCIP or CCRP should be the way to go and if this isn't possible, then designating targets yourself, as LoneGhostOne proposed, would be at least a step in the right direction.

[Harzach 2517]

I propose to employ unguided bombs in a way that reflects modern CAS. It's 2035 ingame, not 1935. CCIP or CCRP should be the way to go and if this isn't possible, then designating targets yourself, as LoneGhostOne proposed, would be at least a step in the right direction.

CCIP delivery often requires one to fly toward the target in a dive, often at pitch angles of 30 degrees or more. It's essentially no different from the way it was done in WWII, but for the increased accuracy. CCRP delivery is a bit safer - it requires level flight toward the target, but can be accomplished from much higher altitudes. As for using LASER designators, that's the opposite of "unguided".

And of course, if your mission requires flying an aircraft into an area controlled by enemy AA, then you'll have to find a way to either destroy said AA early, or avoid it altogether. Personally, I try not to play silly missions with requirements like that, unless I am specifically looking for a challenge, in which case I'll be playing BMS or DCS.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Harzach
clarity

[Crielaard 435]

Reading my guide (see Pergor's post) carefully and executing as described you will hit every time. Even if you screw up the parameters you will still be able to hit withun 30 meters. (Lethal radius is 50m)

The manual comes with two demo videos.

I will release my fighter jet combat fundamentals manuals soon which is based on my RL training manual, translated to whats usable in Arma.

It will also come with a simple and effective technique to get your GBU12's on target with 100% accuracy from ANY altitude.

Here is the parameters table to get going right now:

https://db.tt/zF5ax5Pa

About CCIP and CCRP:

Many people that never worked with it misinterpet these systems (as the post above)

It as nothing to do with altitude or dive angles. It's the measure of target aquisition and attack profile types.

Im also working on a CCIP and CCRP script.

Untill that time...learn the basics first. As I had to. ;)

Regarding laserguided weapons.

The reason they are carried is NOT 'So that aircraft dont have to rely on ground units to target them. Its to ensure weapon accuracy on higher altitudes. They still rely on ground units to find targets. And often even to designate targets due to line of sight angle and surface type reason. Plus these targeting pods can fail for various reasons.

Stay tuned.

Edited May 16, 2014 by 87th_Neptune