DirecxtX 12 for ArmA 3?

[connorwarman 60]

Sorry, Microsoft DirectX 12 will Windows 10+ exclusive according to AMD and Nvidia (can't find Microsofts Statement, but I think they mentioned it during a MVA course)

EDIT: "So DirectX 12 will, we’re told, only work with Windows 10" -rockpapershotgun

So much for me looking into using DirextX 12. :(

[CrazyBaron 10]

Is directX 12 even coming to Windows 7? If you look at the steam hardware survey, many players (myself included) still use windows 7, and I'd really rather not have to upgrade to windows 10 (which apparently has even more shit that sells your data). I'd even wager that a portion of the players on this forum might still use Windows XP, I think I remember a Polish guy who still uses it. It would really suck if only those who "upgrade" their operating system would get the *major* performance benefits.

Gamers on Windows XP, is this joke? Even ATMs is updating form Windows XP now days

Windows XP is long dead platform and not supported for long time. As it goes for your data please... if some one wants your data they will get it regardless.

THIS ^^

I am all for low-level APIs. But NOT when they lock you into one specific platform. Especially a platform that has most privacy experts up in arms over it. For DX12, all they really did was slap Mantle on DX11. Nothing overly new hence why they came out with it so freaking fast. While the complete spec for Vulkan has not been finalized yet, It is a complete rework of the API. They are writing it from scratch. They are doing away with the 20 year old code. And, they are not platform locking it. They never did. With DX12, if you dont jump to Windows 10/XBone, you cant play. Or you can only play at reduced performance or weaker graphics. It is very much like the work that BI is doing about the Linux/Mac port they are considering.....it too wont support DX12 let alone DX11. So, speculation is that they will use DX9 and WINE to make it work. Which, play Arma 3 in DX9 and tell me what you think of it. Do that, and I can almost guarantee you no one will buy it. Not when Unreal is using Vulkan and coming out to Linux and Mac and looking sexy as all hell.

Build in your Low-level APIs by all means. But, make it NOT platform specific. Especially if you are even considering a future port to the other operating systems. What is the huge difference between the two? DX12 is backed by......Microsoft only and is WinX/XBone only. Vulkan is Multi-platform (All platforms including XBone and WinX) and is backed by the following companies:

http://i.imgur.com/1Fqmopi.png (116 kB)

And their current member list which includes Microsoft (gasp!)

https://www.khronos.org/members/member_list

The unofficial rumor at the moment remains that Khronos Group seems likely to unveil the formal Vulkan specification at SIGGRAPH in August. SIGGRAPH 2015 runs from 9 to 13 August in Los Angeles but who knows what we'll see the week before in Germany at GDC Europe or if there will be any early surprises.

Whats the problem of updating to Windows 10 when they even give you it for free for 1 year?

Vulkan is not even out yet and UE still performs better with DirectX than OpenGL

[Brisse 78]

Whats the problem of updating to Windows 10 when they even give you it for free for 1 year?

Because along with what you get for "free", you also get a bunch of things that you might not want. You seem to be the kind of ignorant consumer that does not care or know about such things though. Maybe that makes you a happy customer. Ignorance is bliss...

[linuxmaster9 101]

Gamers on Windows XP, is this joke? Even ATMs is updating form Windows XP now days

Windows XP is long dead platform and not supported for long time. As it goes for your data please... if some one wants your data they will get it regardless.

Whats the problem of updating to Windows 10 when they even give you it for free for 1 year?

Vulkan is not even out yet and UE still performs better with DirectX than OpenGL

I beg to differ. Did you run OpenGL under a Linux platform or Windows? The Windows version is locked to around OpenGL 3.x. The Linux version is around 4.4.

I ran UE tests under Linux and using the 7970 I have and it ran smooth and hella fast. It looked downright gorgeous. And that was before Vulkan. And, considering that Epic games is a promoter and contributor to Vulkan, I highly doubt they are going to go exclusive DX12.

[Brisse 78]

I see people discussing OpenGL vs D3D. If you think it's an interesting discussion, I recommend reading the following blog post from Valve:

http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/faster-zombies/

[calin_banc 19]

So much for me looking into using DirextX 12. :(

You'll most likely jump into it if the performance is there. Almost all will.

[PuFu 4600]

Let's be honest here: both AMD and nVidia do aim for windows when they work on their drivers. OpenGL is a fabulous system but is not really working as it should, at least on windows.

For some reason you think BI is aiming more platforms with the EXPANSION (it will require A3 to be installed in order to work) of A3.

From a business perspective, i really see it very counter productive to aim for anything like Vulkan, even if the set release time is about 1 year away.

I have said it before - for everything related to PC gaming, windows is the platform to go to. Linux might pick up the ball if Valve's gonna hit it big with their platform. Most OSX computers are not game ready anyways (i own a late 2014 mac book pro with a 2.5ghz mobile 4c/8t mobile i7 (turbo 3.4ghz), 16gb ram, 512 pcix SSD, gtx750M, and i am pretty sure that system will not work properly with A3, and that is pretty close to the top of the line apple computer you can buy).

So then why are we having this conversation? Does anyone really believe anything BUT dx12 will happen, again, for an EXPANSION, not a new game....

btw: windows 10 is free for current windows 7 and 8 users forever. You can choose to upgrade for free until july 2016, so 1 year after its release

[Armitxes 36]

btw: windows 10 is free for current windows 7 and 8 users forever. You can choose to upgrade for free until july 2016, so 1 year after its release

Too bad that the upgraded version is bound to the hardware ^^ a key would've been much better. Release of Windows 10 is the 29.05.2015 (yippiee) but then you are bound to your current Hardware or you must purchase it :( still perfect for my tablets & Windows Phone though.

[Greenfist 1863]

From Reddit:

Yes, we're investigating what DX12 can do for Arma 3. Until we have a version up and running, there's not much we can confirm (meaning we don't yet). Realistically, expect us to use it at a basic level, with an aim to try to get performance gains where we can, but not to implement its more advanced features. It's also possible we'd release it ahead of the expansion itself as part of an update. When we have more to share, we certainly will.

[PuFu 4600]

where are the ones that said - "but that means confirmation!"...

[CaptainObvious 95]

Too bad that the upgraded version is bound to the hardware ...

Is it really, I've heard this alot, but not from official sources?

[Greenfist 1863]

Is it really, I've heard this alot, but not from official sources?

Found this recent article:

Here's a little more clarification from Microsoft. More and more of the free upgrade pieces are falling into place.

If something major happens to the device that requires something as monumental such as a motherboard change (basically turning it into a new computer), Windows 10 will require re-activation – which will require you to purchase a license. This is what Microsoft means when it says "life of the device." Additionally, you can't transfer a license to a new device. But, if something disastrous does happen, it's usually more cost-effective to just buy a replacement device anyway and that should come pre-loaded with Windows 10. However, if you happen to buy a new device with an older OS installed, you can get the free Windows 10 upgrade as long as it falls in the free upgrade offer period.

:mad:

Although, someone said this only applies to OEM licenses. So a retail license is bound to you, and OEM one to your device.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Greenfist

[I give up 152]

Found this recent article:

Here's a little more clarification from Microsoft. More and more of the free upgrade pieces are falling into place.

If something major happens to the device that requires something as monumental such as a motherboard change (basically turning it into a new computer), Windows 10 will require re-activation – which will require you to purchase a license. This is what Microsoft means when it says "life of the device." Additionally, you can't transfer a license to a new device. But, if something disastrous does happen, it's usually more cost-effective to just buy a replacement device anyway and that should come pre-loaded with Windows 10. However, if you happen to buy a new device with an older OS installed, you can get the free Windows 10 upgrade as long as it falls in the free upgrade offer period.

:mad:

Although, someone said this only applies to OEM licenses. So a retail license is bound to you, and OEM one to your device.

Isn't DirectX 12 lovely?

New hardware, new licence.

[Soldat20 0]

Windows 8 is also a BIOS-based key, this is nothing new for Windows to be locked to the motherboard.

[CaptainObvious 95]

Found this recent article:

:mad:

Although, someone said this only applies to OEM licenses. So a retail license is bound to you, and OEM one to your device.

Aye, this is as it should be, and I hope it to be in this case too.

Also this bit from the article doesn't really fit desktop rigs, but rather laptops I think:

But, if something disastrous does happen, it's usually more cost-effective to just buy a replacement device anyway and that should come pre-loaded with Windows 10.

edit: As per comments in this article you can still transfer your licence by phone after a critical hardware failure.

Edited June 23, 2015 by CaptainObvious

[I give up 152]

Windows 8 is also a BIOS-based key, this is nothing new for Windows to be locked to the motherboard.

OEM always has been tied to machine (after 8 is through bios), that's not the point.

The point is, sooner or later you will have to buy DirectX 12 (i mean windows 10).

So, this free update thing is more like a ruse.

[vegeta897 13]

OEM always has been tied to machine (after 8 is through bios), that's not the point.

The point is, sooner or later you will have to buy DirectX 12 (i mean windows 10).

So, this free update thing is more like a ruse.

I own a retail license for Windows 7, so I won't have to pay for Windows 10 at any point. So, you're wrong.

OEM licences not being allowed to transfer to new computers is exactly the point. If you update your OEM license to 10, it's still OEM and the same restrictions apply. It's no more a "ruse" than the original OEM license was. The point at which you'd "have to" buy Windows 10 would be the same point at which you'd have to buy another license for 7 or 8.

[doveman 7]

We can buy/sell/transfer OEM licences in Europe anyway. The European Court ruled it unlawful to tie software to hardware and that the manufacturer exhausts it's rights of distribution after the original sale. I guess in recognition of this ruling, MS have an automated phone system here in the UK which doesn't ask you any questions or expect you to justify why you're activating a Dell OEM licence on a non-Dell system before giving you an activation code.

[I give up 152]

I own a retail license for Windows 7, so I won't have to pay for Windows 10 at any point. So, you're wrong.

OEM licences not being allowed to transfer to new computers is exactly the point. If you update your OEM license to 10, it's still OEM and the same restrictions apply. It's no more a "ruse" than the original OEM license was. The point at which you'd "have to" buy Windows 10 would be the same point at which you'd have to buy another license for 7 or 8.

Nope.

If you have a OEM (or retail) licence/copy for Windows 7/8 you can upgrade now (and for 1 year) to Windows 10 for free.

But after 1 year if for some reason you need to perform a fresh Windows installation in your machine the copy (and licence) that you have is for Windows 7 or 8. If you want Windows 10 again, you need to buy it.

[doveman 7]

Nope.

If you have a OEM (or retail) copy fo Windows 7/8 you can upgrade now (and for 1 year) to Windows 10 for free.

But after 1 year if for some reason you need to perform a fresh Windows installation in your machine the copy (and licence) that you have is for Windows 7 or 8. If you want Windows 10 again, you need to buy it.

Actually they're offering a free upgrade to Windows 10 if you upgrade before the end of July 2016. Once upgraded, you own a non-expiring Windows 10 licence and in Europe MS can't legally tie that to specific hardware.

[I give up 152]

Actually they're offering a free upgrade to Windows 10 if you upgrade before the end of July 2016. Once upgraded, you own a non-expiring Windows 10 licence and in Europe MS can't legally tie that to specific hardware.

Ok.

How do you are going to perform a fresh Windows installation? Where do you get/got the copy?

[doveman 7]

Ok.

How do you are going to perform a fresh Windows installation? Where do you get/got the copy?

I presume they'll have a downloadable ISO for Windows 10 as they do for Windows 8, after all it is going on sale for people who don't qualify for the free upgrade so there will need to be CDs/ISOs for those people. I also presume when you upgrade they'll provide a key for your copy of Windows 10. If they don't though and someone in the EU wants to install it on different hardware, MS will have to facilitate that or else they'll be acting so as to prevent customers from exercising their legal right to do so, in breach of EU law and whilst they could decide to ignore that until someone (or the relevant EU body) takes them to court, it's fairly clear what the outcome would be so it would be rather stupid of them to waste loads of money on legal fees and I doubt they want another massive fine to add to the ones they've already managed to accrue from past EU cases.

[I give up 152]

I presume they'll have a downloadable ISO for Windows 10 as they do for Windows 8, after all it is going on sale for people who don't qualify for the free upgrade so there will need to be CDs/ISOs for those people. I also presume when you upgrade they'll provide a key for your copy of Windows 10. If they don't though and someone in the EU wants to install it on different hardware, MS will have to facilitate that or else they'll be acting so as to prevent customers from exercising their legal right to do so, in breach of EU law and whilst they could decide to ignore that until someone (or the relevant EU body) takes them to court, it's fairly clear what the outcome would be so it would be rather stupid of them to waste loads of money on legal fees and I doubt they want another massive fine to add to the ones they've already managed to accrue from past EU cases.

There is no ISO to upgrade from Windows 8 to 8.1, you need to to upgrade through Microsoft store, if you have already a Windows 8 installed and licenced.

And it will be the same for Windows 10.

[vegeta897 13]

Ok.

How do you are going to perform a fresh Windows installation? Where do you get/got the copy?

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-10-faq

"You’ll also be able to create your own installation media like a USB drive or DVD, and use that to upgrade your device or reinstall after you’ve upgraded."

[doveman 7]

There is no ISO to upgrade from Windows 8 to 8.1, you need to to upgrade through Microsoft store, if you have already a Windows 8 installed and licenced.

And it will be the same for Windows 10.

That's not strictly true, as you can download an ISO to avoid having to upgrade through the store:

http://www.cnet.com/uk/how-to/how-to-download-the-official-microsoft-windows-8-1-iso/

There are fresh install ISOs available for Windows 8.1 for those who have a Windows 8.1 key:

http://www.askvg.com/official-tool-to-download-windows-8-1-setup-iso-and-create-installation-media/

In fact, you can download an Windows 8.1 ISO that will accept both Windows 8 and 8.1 keys, so it seems MS realised it was stupid to make people install Windows 8 just to upgrade to 8.1 and provided this ISO to make that unnecessary:

http://dellwindowsreinstallationguide.com/download-microsoft-windows-and-office/download-microsoft-windows/download-windows-8-1-retail-and-oem-iso/download-windows-8-1-iso/

There will be CDs/ISOs available for Windows 10. I guess MS might get away with not providing a Windows 10 key to those who get the free upgrade, as long as they facilitate a path of installing Windows 7/8 with the original key and upgrading from that to Windows 10 on different hardware in future (obviously the licence still only allows it to be used on a single PC, so it will have to be deactivated on the previous PC first), to avoid interfering with the customer's right to use the perpetual licence they own (regardless of the fact that it was given to them for free) but hopefully they won't regress and as with the Windows 8.1 Update 1 ISO they'll make the Windows 10 ISO accept Windows 7/8 keys and let the activation process check whether those keys were upgraded within the first year or not.

As far as I know, nowhere outside the EU has ruled it unlawful to tie software to hardware, so customers outside the EU will have to purchase a new licence if they wish to install Windows 10 on different hardware.