Problems With Mil-Sim Groups Taking Realism Too Far

[nikeleye 10]

Don't get lulled into a sense that all milsim groups are the same. VCB is one of the oldest milsim groups in the ArmA community, we have a command structure based on a RL unit and we train RL drills. That said, we don't call each other by rank, we don't have a code of conduct, we don't practice or do things on missions JUST for the sake of realism. Our rank structure is purely out of necessity - one bloke to run each squad/section of guys, another bloke to control all three of them and a sgt that goes around the platoon enforcing grooming standards. Our training is all from guys that do it in real life that we adapt to make us better at the game, while maintaining a sense of realism.

I can definately see the OP's point of view in that I'm never going to call a 17 year old on the internet 'Sir' or 'Corporal', line up against a wall and be told to not speak unless spoken to or have to pass a virtual marksmanship test just to play a game with a sense of realism. That's taking all the stuff that makes it unenjoyable IRL and adding it to a game that I play for fun.

[JohnnyForeigners 10]

Don't get lulled into a sense that all milsim groups are the same. VCB is one of the oldest milsim groups in the ArmA community, we have a command structure based on a RL unit and we train RL drills. That said, we don't call each other by rank, we don't have a code of conduct, we don't practice or do things on missions JUST for the sake of realism. Our rank structure is purely out of necessity - one bloke to run each squad/section of guys, another bloke to control all three of them and a sgt that goes around the platoon enforcing grooming standards. Our training is all from guys that do it in real life that we adapt to make us better at the game, while maintaining a sense of realism.

I can definately see the OP's point of view in that I'm never going to call a 17 year old on the internet 'Sir' or 'Corporal', line up against a wall and be told to not speak unless spoken to or have to pass a virtual marksmanship test just to play a game with a sense of realism. That's taking all the stuff that makes it unenjoyable IRL and adding it to a game that I play for fun.

I'm aware there are units with a different culture. But they don't seem to be on the foreground as much.

Edited March 9, 2014 by JohnnyForeigners
Spelling

[Phoenix1.0 10]

It kinda is my business I have been part of these groups and they treat their members like dog crap.

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Yeah I dont have two accounts sir you observations are flawed. Check your sources brother before you falsely accuse

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@darkwander Yeah I dont have two accounts sir you observations are flawed. Check your sources brother before you falsely accuse

[Harzach 2517]

It kinda is my business I have been part of these groups and they treat their members like dog crap.

Then take it up with them on their own forums. This topic is pointless and childish.

[ratszo 17]

It kinda is my business I have been part of these groups and they treat their members like dog crap.

---------- Post added at 00:49 ---------- Previous post was at 00:47 ----------

Yeah I dont have two accounts sir you observations are flawed. Check your sources brother before you falsely accuse

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@darkwander Yeah I dont have two accounts sir you observations are flawed. Check your sources brother before you falsely accuse

Finally we see the butthurt..., starting with, " I have been part of these groups and they treat their members like dog crap."

Ending with, "..., before you falsely accuse..."

Axe..., meet grinding_wheel.

R. Lee Ermey said it best,

"There's a lot of whiners in every crowd."

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/r/r_lee_ermey.html

[Hillsbills 1]

I think they're a bit moronic but it has zero effect on me, my gaming, my life. Carry on.

[John Kozak 14]

It kinda is my business I have been part of these groups and they treat their members like dog crap.

---------- Post added at 00:49 ---------- Previous post was at 00:47 ----------

Yeah I dont have two accounts sir you observations are flawed. Check your sources brother before you falsely accuse

---------- Post added at 00:50 ---------- Previous post was at 00:49 ----------

@darkwander Yeah I dont have two accounts sir you observations are flawed. Check your sources brother before you falsely accuse

Proof :-)

Edited March 10, 2014 by DarkWanderer

[GReeves 10]

I mean I am a 21 year old man. I dont want to take orders from some 15 year old kid...

As long as minors are respectful and mature I don't mind being led by them. Sounds like you're just too proud to be given orders by someone who you don't see as "superior".

[hellfire257 3]

I think the people who engage in such activities are quite frankly bonkers, but if that's what they get their kicks from, more power to them.

[Gunter Severloh 4052]

Think of it this way, a realism unit, squad, group, what have you is an alternative way to be in the military, and go to war, or rather be in combat when its done

without actually having to go to, or be in, or go through the harsh reality of boot camp, and other factor the realities of war.

From my experience and not in the arma games sorry to say, realism was a real blast,alot of fun, when i was in it the matches, campaigns my unit was in, and the other units

we fought along side and combat we had was all 1 life, so everything you did, practice, tactics, ect,. was methodical, planned, rehearsed, your practice time was taken

seriously as any lack in your skill and it could cost you.

[EDcase 87]

(OP) I would never play with these crazy realism groups either but who the hell do you think you are trying to tell other people how to play!?!?!?

Get over yourself and find another server.

Pointless thread

[Harzach 2517]

(OP) I would never play with these crazy realism groups either...

No crazier than fantasy football or pretending to like your in-laws...;)

[tortuosit 486]

OP, Altis Life is is the path for you to go.

[war_lord 934]

I hate crazy pseudo military Units. I'm disgusted by the culture of subservience they create, and their overly inflated rank structure. and the way they think their way is the only correct way of doing things. But I don't really worry about em, you can spot them a mile off, and anyone who signs up knows what they're in for and can leave at anytime.

My group treats them like a sad joke, and we avoid any connection to them, but we don't really give a damn about them existing, you certainly wouldn't catch me badmouthing other groups like this.

[[evo] dan 79]

I hate crazy pseudo military Units. I'm disgusted by the culture of subservience they create, and their overly inflated rank structure. and the way they think their way is the only correct way of doing things. But I don't really worry about em, you can spot them a mile off, and anyone who signs up knows what they're in for and can leave at anytime.

My group treats them like a sad joke, and we avoid any connection to them, but we don't really give a damn about them existing, you certainly wouldn't catch me badmouthing other groups like this.

^this, we have played PVP or COOP with that kind several times, and lets just say they are very much crippled by it. But each to their own.

[Lucasmnunesk 2]

While i've experienced somethings that i didn't like in many groups i have to say that its hard to find a group that will perfectly fit to what you want all the time, even myself, sometimes i want to have some fun but sometimes i'm looking to have a more serious time and i cannot expect everyone else will do what i want.

Like you said the groups that want to train their players the have to assume no one knows anything, because many people think they know everything and there is still something that maybe you don't know, and if you don't know someone else who is on the group doesn't know, so for the better of all the community i won't ask them to skip some part of the training because i believe that i know everything, i'm not the only one there and still they could tell me something i don't know yet.

About the age, its up to these communities to manage their age restriction, don't you think that its too selfish for 15 years old kids not being able to give you orders but you still want to use an chain of command? The kids should just be ordered around? If they were allowed into an community they shouldn't be restricted by their age in my opinion.

I play ArmA for the experience it gives me, i mean, i do know the AI has it issues, but i wouldn't exploit their issues to assure i win or whatever, laying on the grass or hiding behind bushes do work in ArmA, it has its limits but it still works. It would be the same as exploiting those clipping glitches which allows you to see behind building too fight against human players. I'm saying this because i truly believe its what most of the ArmA players want while playing, the experience the game provide.

And in the end ArmA has LOTS of different communities, don't look for them to fit everything you want perfectly, try to be more reasonable because if you want to be part of any community, you have to play with different kinds of people which will want different things at different times.

[mihikle 2]

Nothing wrong with using the real-life skills and drills, in fact I've thought countless times whilst playing "if this wasn't so well planned out and organised, we'd all be dead right now", and that goes for both ArmA 2 and 3.

However calling people "Sir", "Sergeant", saluting in-game, doing drill in game, that kind of thing, is way too far. In-fact, anything 'milsim' that calls people by rank are a load of walts - personally I find it an insult to those that have served to call someone in a video game "Sir", who's never earned that commission in real life!

[Westonsammy 1]

This post seems stupid to me, it's not like these hardcore mil-sim groups are enforcing these rules upon you on every server of ArmA, most of the time they just stick to their own private, locked servers. In the end YOU are the one who wanted to play with them.

You can easily play ArmA without having to run into any of these mil-simmers. I tired joining a group like this once, didn't like it, and never had to play like that again. There are plenty of casual and "softcore" mil-sim servers and communities, you just have to search a bit. No need to complain about something that you chose to do.

[GReeves 10]

Nothing wrong with using the real-life skills and drills, in fact I've thought countless times whilst playing "if this wasn't so well planned out and organised, we'd all be dead right now", and that goes for both ArmA 2 and 3.

However calling people "Sir", "Sergeant", saluting in-game, doing drill in game, that kind of thing, is way too far. In-fact, anything 'milsim' that calls people by rank are a load of walts - personally I find it an insult to those that have served to call someone in a video game "Sir", who's never earned that commission in real life!

AMEN! Yeah, maybe it's none of my business, but I am fed up with people using real-world-military medals like the Medal of Honor, Silver Star, etc. to award people for donating to servers or ridiculous stuff like that. And the rank nonsense really gets to me too -- these people didn't earn their ranks through years of dedication; they earned them by sitting on their rears for a few hours deciding which rank they think makes them sound most impressive.

And before anyone turns my argument around by calling me out when they see "Captain" in my signature, you can ask any 31st ID member and they'll tell you that ranks mean very, very, little in our community. The only reason we use them is because it makes sense to use military titles for community authorities (some leadership in online teams is essential) since we are playing a military simulation game. That means no saluting anyone, no calling anyone by rank or "sir", and no showing extra respect or "fear" of "superior" members. It really bothers me when I log onto the Teamspeak server of another group to talk with them and get greeted by "Welcome, Captain, how can I help you sir?"

[gavc 28]

tl:dr = nah dont bother i'm just rambling.

surely the point of MilSim is to simulate the awesome and glorified parts of warfare, and not the mundane bullshit. Saving your mates, being covered as you retreat, defending the LZ as you await pickup. I'm fairly sure most people would agree.

Everything after that, the saluting and rankings can add structure and discipline to a unit, it's not for everyone, and a lot of the time it is detrimental to the effectiveness of a unit, and also it's fun-factor. IMO it's great fun to play with instruction and command over you and support around you. It's why i play Arma.

Not so much aimed at the OP, cause he seems a bit... welll..... but to anyone who loves the game but might be sick of the bullshit: you should move units until you find one you're happy with.

and to GReeves and the other folks who are latterly talking about the rewarding etc etc. I feel server funding is about as important as anything in regards keeping the friends together. At the very least you need a TS server. These things arent free. Especially if you clan members arent tech savvy. I think rewarding people in-game for contributions to the community out-of-game is a great idea. That said... no one in my current clan agrees. I have played L.A.R.P. games many years ago that had this sort of reward structure and it greatly benefited everyone involved, not seen many examples of it though in online communities.

G

[mihikle 2]

^ Stuff like that I can relate to - but however giving people a VC for something they did in a game in just plain stupid and in my own opinion I find that to be trying to devalue the worth of the medal itself and an insult to the people that have earned it. Make up your own rewards system will work in any community, milsim or not, like a 'key member' medal or a 'significant effort' ribbon or something like that that bears no real-life meaning. Then again in my own opinion I wouldn't do something like this, It generally divides people from my experience between those who have got a the "£20 donation medal" or whatever and those that haven't, sometimes it makes people think that they are 'better' than other people which of course in a video game, is total rubbish.

But back to the main topic: I wouldn't award a video game player a virtual medal they never earned in real life. It's just wrong.

[giorgygr 61]

I m not playing ArmA games for having fun.

I know lots of fun games as Veteran gamer but..

for me (and myriads of other people i guess) ARMA series is the (unfortunately only) way to have an affordable VBS for you and any new member

that doesn't have to spend the "x" amount of money VBS series need...