Ukraine General

[ProfTournesol 956]

Yes.... we'll see how strong is the Ukrainian governement to disarm all those nice guys...

[Rydygier 1309]

you forgot to mention that when USSR lost war with Poland in 1921, part of the peace treaty was that they will respect sovereign independent status of two states: Ukraine and Belarussia ...

in 1-2 month after the pact, USSR invaded those and captured them again ...

BTW:

"Not only such agreement, not only such declarations Kremlin broke so far"

- The first round the break is won by the Russians and will be continued in the form of a determined policy of the Kremlin .. (...) Not only such agreement, not only such declarations Kremlin broke so far. A plan to submit a part or the whole of Ukraine is very clear and I do not think it will stop him - said the MEP.

When asked about emerging from yesterday comparison, which collate the agreement reached in Geneva with the Munich Agreement in 1938, said: I know these comparisons, something in it. Signed less than a year before the outbreak of World War II agreement concerned living in Czechoslovakia, the Sudeten Germans. Assumed separation of the Sudetenland, which was incorporated into the Third Reich. Importantly, the decision on the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Czechoslovakia undertaken without the presence of its representatives. About the fact that the situation in Ukraine and Crimea case is reminiscent of what happened in 1938, spoke before Andrei Illarionow, a former adviser to the Kremlin

Edited April 18, 2014 by Rydygier

[arttem 1]

:) Well.

MINSK, March 14. /Corr. ITAR-TASS Larisa kluchnikova/. The foreign Ministry of Belarus denied reports of Polish media about the detention of Belarusian diplomats suspected of intelligence in favor of Russia. "In connection with reports of Polish media about allegedly caught in the Republic of Poland, the Belarusian diplomat noted that recently the Belarusian diplomats in Poland was not late and, moreover, were not taken into custody," said foreign Ministry press Secretary of Belarus Dmitry Mironchik.

But. Everything has the basis, the starting point. Just a little bit later:

Let me introduce Poland diplomat in Belarus Pavel Essa.

The record leak into the net with the help of Belarusian opposition. To which Essa offered big money to make "revolutionary "Maidan" activities". But they are not patriots. Essa simply kicked them with moneys. :) So Belorus now without Maidan.

He says a lot of bad things about his fellow citizens. For example:

On the 1:46 his words - I don't think very highly of Poles. 60% of the population are complete idiots.@ My remark - in the context of his speech, he means -they don't understand what's going on at all.

----------------------

They removed info about him from Poland embossy site now. But. Google remember everything.

From 2013, local Belarus newspaper.

On the eve of the New year the Polish Embassy in Belarus and the NGO "rotary Club Minsk city made the children of the boarding school for children-orphans in Begoml a great gift - opened sports and entertainment venue.

It had to be seen how glad the guys a new site, on the inauguration was attended by the Polish Embassy Pavel Essa and representatives of the "rotary Club of Minsk city, the local district Executive Committee.

https://nv-online.info/by/435/society/73773/Праздник-который-Ñ-ними-(фото).htm

I understand Belarus opposition guys, why they uploaded only the part where Pavel telling something about Poland. It's a dirt on him. But it will be more interesting personaly for me to listen part about Maidan. So if smbdy find it. Give a link please.

Edited April 18, 2014 by ArtTem

[Tonci87 163]

Please delete, wrong video.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Tonci87

[arttem 1]

[spooky lynx 73]

Anti-Semitic fake from oligarch Igor Kolomoysky's henchmen

[mistyronin 1181]

ArtTem, that Ukrainian general is an incompetent, that may have fallen in love with himself, because if not I don't understand.

- - - - - - - -

Anti-Semitic fake from oligarch Igor Kolomoysky's henchmen

More on that:

( BBC ) CCTV of anti-Semitic leaflets being handed out in Ukraine

The chief rabbi of the eastern region of Donbass has called on Ukranian security services to protect the Jewish community after men in balaclavas distributed threatening leaflets outside the synagogue.

About 15,000 Jews live in Donetsk; the leaflets many of them received were signed by the pro-Russian group People's Republic of Donetsk but the group say the letter is a fake and is designed to discredit Moscow's supporters.

The BBC has obtained CCTV footage that shows how leaflets were distributed.

Edited April 18, 2014 by MistyRonin

[arttem 1]

ArtTem, that Ukrainian general is an incompetent, that may have fallen in love with himself, because if not I don't understand.

I've posted Vice news first time. Before, you guys was posting them. From that i've made a conclusion that you are interested in Vice news. So i just posted em and thats all.

[mistyronin 1181]

I've posted Vice news first time. Before, you guys was posting them. From that i've made a conclusion that you are interested in Vice news. So i just posted em and thats all.

Yeah, I kind of like that reports, was a nice point. Большое ÑпаÑибо

I was just pointing out that the Ukrainian general is an incompetent. And it's supposed to be the leader of the operation against the insurrection...

- - - - - - -

( Reuters ) Special Report: How the U.S. made its Putin problem worse

It's also a dynamic that some current and former U.S. officials said reflects an American failure to recognize that while the Soviet Union is gone as an ideological enemy, Russia has remained a major power that demands the same level of foreign policy attention as China and other large nations - a relationship that should not just be a means to other ends, but an end in itself.

"I just don't think we were really paying attention," said James F. Collins, who served as the U.S. ambassador to Moscow in the late 1990s. The bilateral relationship "was seen as not a big deal."

Putin was never going to be an easy partner. He is a Russian nationalist with authoritarian tendencies who, like his Russian predecessors for centuries, harbors a deep distrust of the West, according to senior U.S. officials. Much of his world view was formed as a KGB officer in the twilight years of the Cold War and as a government official in the chaotic post-Soviet Russia of the 1990s, which Putin and many other Russians view as a period when the United States repeatedly took advantage of Russian weakness.

Edited April 18, 2014 by MistyRonin

[Tonci87 163]

The General is an idiot, to even get himself in such a situation......

[mistyronin 1181]

The General is an idiot, to even get himself in such a situation......

I din't wanted to use that word. But I agree 100%

First, he should be able to delegate to lower officers and NEVER put himself in danger if he is the main leader of the operation ( not for himself, but for his troops sake ).

Second, in the case that he for whatever reason must speak in public, he could have done it beyond a security line and with a speaker.

That could have escalated into a major situation, putting lives in danger and all because of his desire of being cocky. No wonder that Ukrainian Army morale is really low.

[mistyronin 1181]

( The Guardian ) : Inside the 'Donetsk People's Republic': balaclavas, Stalin flags and razorwire

It is part Soviet theme park, part wacky anti-western wonderland. Stuck to the barricades outside the "Donetsk People's Republic" are several caricatures of Barack Obama. There is Obama as Hitler, complete with moustache. There is Obama, Bonaparte and the Führer, and the words: "They all thought their nations were superior." And there is Obama as a monkey (the monkey-Obama, visible on Friday, had disappeared by Saturday).

Further inside, past a serpentine wall of tyres, activist Vitaly Akulov stood beneath a flag of Stalin. The Soviet leader had a Kalashnikov. Wasn't he responsible for the deaths of millions of Soviet citizens? "Without a tough tsar who uses harsh methods you can't build an imperium," Akulov observed. Other banners read: "Fuck EU and USA", "Donbass with Russia" and "Russians should be together!"

Two weeks ago pro-Kremlin separatists seized Donetsk's regional administration building. They have been there ever since, transforming the 11-storey block overlooking the green Pushkin boulevard into an improvised youth hostel and counter-revolutionary HQ. They are a bizarre group, including teenagers in balaclavas, some just 15 or 16, and bearded men in military jackets. But if Vladimir Putin has his way they will soon become the east's new "government".

But what about Geneva? "Russia signed a bit of paper. Everybody knows they didn't mean it," Kirolov said. "Putin's not going to give up on us. We're his people."

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( Washington Post ) After Russian moves in Ukraine, Eastern Europe shudders, NATO to increase presence

For decades, NATO has expanded inexorably outward, taking on new members and new missions that have carried it far beyond its original mandate in Western Europe and deep into the former Soviet sphere.

But Russia’s intervention in Ukraine has sent shivers down the spines of Eastern European countries from Estonia in the north to Bulgaria in the south. NATO’s newest members have been left feeling vulnerable and wondering whether the world’s most powerful military alliance is truly committed to their defense.

Concerns have been especially acute in the three Baltic nations that were once part of the Soviet empire and now fear that they could be next on Russian President Vladimir Putin’s hit list.

Edited April 20, 2014 by MistyRonin

[nodunit 397]

I'm not sure why it matters that they express so much disdain for us, if we are to believe in the right to free speech here then we would be hypocrites to to upset at them for it, hell plenty of peoples around the world show their hate for the US with all forms of graffiti, symbolism and burning of our flag, and its not as though we don't do that here in the very states, burning our own flag and creating mocking imagery of our own president(s) and other politicians.

Granted yeah there is some concern for the glorifying of the tsar's and holding stalin up as a martyr but the rest of it? Meh, oh they are talking bad about us.

Edited April 20, 2014 by NodUnit

[mistyronin 1181]

( BBC ) Orthodox Easter messages show divide

The head of Ukraine's Orthodox Church Patriarch Filaret accused Russia of "aggression" and "evil".

Russian Church Patriarch Kirill asked God to end the designs of those who wanted to rip apart Russia and Ukraine.

Pro-Russian activists in the east continue to occupy government offices.

Meanwhile Russia media are reporting several deaths in a gunbattle near the eastern town of Sloviansk.

Reports of fatalities in the region have appeared before but have not been independently confirmed.

A mediator from the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) is scheduled to hold talks with them on Sunday.

Ertogrul Apakan, who heads the special OSCE mission in Kiev, said his deputy would be in Donetsk to try to get them to comply with an agreement reached on Thursday to ease the crisis.

The alleged Russian reports:

( RT ) Six reported E. Ukraine deaths in overnight checkpoint raid

Six people have been reportedly killed in a gunfight in Slavyansk, a city in eastern Ukraine held by anti-government protesters. The fatalities include four protesters and two attackers, who are believed to be from the Right Sector paramilitary.

The deaths came after a night attack on a protester checkpoint on the outskirts of the city, Rossiya 24 reported. Four cars drove by the checkpoint and opened fire at local residents manning it, killing three people and seriously injuring several others.

[mistyronin 1181]

( BBC ) Russian outrage at fatal Sloviansk shooting

It remembers me to the Gleiwitz incident

[arttem 1]

( RT ) Six reported E. Ukraine deaths in overnight checkpoint raid

[Tonci87 163]

So what exactly can be seen in that video and what is the guy saying? Please don´t just dump non english stuff without any context.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Tonci87

[arttem 1]

So what exactly can be seen in that video and what is the guy saying? Please don´t just dump non english stuff without any context.

Nothing interesting. He is explaining what objects you see. I think you don't need translation to understand that you see dead body, MG42, AK or pampers for sniper or documents, dogtags. Just one thing for which he is upset - black folder for documents is empty. He can only guess what was inside. Do you remember video from the road? "Green people" was shooting two mens in the car on the road... I see nice thing - mobile road hedgehog. So that group who atacked checkpoint, was working on the roads later.

Page in social net of the guy wich driver license we see in video. http://www.odnoklassniki.ru/profile/529806326795

Last time he was there 11 of april. He is from Kiev.

Edited April 20, 2014 by ArtTem

[Tonci87 163]

Yeah I just saw the news and they had some interesting questions.

1. The two burned out cars full of bulletholes. The cars are completely burned out, except for the Ukrainian license plates wich are completely unstained.

2. How did all that gear survive the hail of bullets and the fire in the cars without any damage?

3. Why are there brand new american dollars?

4A Pravy Sector buisness card, really?

Some things don´t really fit together.

[arttem 1]

Yeah I just saw the news and they had some interesting questions.

1. The two burned out cars full of bulletholes. The cars are completely burned out, except for the Ukrainian license plates wich are completely unstained.

2. How did all that gear survive the hail of bullets and the fire in the cars without any damage?

3. Why are there brand new american dollars?

4A Pravy Sector buisness card, really?

Some things don´t really fit together.

Yes, when somebody target into your car it more interesting to seat there and wait when it start to burn after attack. :)

Pravy Sector buisness card - is not a document, but it can be helpfull in different situations.

Dollars? Whats wrong with them? I have some buisness with people from Ukraine. And i pay always a dollars, new, old, doesn't matter.

P.S. Some messages coming from locals, that cars wasn't ruined at all in firefight. Cars was burned in the morning, by angry relatives of killed self-defence guys. I don't know whome to believe. :butbut:

Edited April 20, 2014 by ArtTem

[mistyronin 1181]

I agree with Tonci, it's weird.

To me the two main options are: or the attackers were retarded or it has been staged ( thats why I posted the link about the Gleiwitz incident ).

I mean, you don't need to be much smart if you do an attack to just take with you what you will need, no extras that can aim at you and provoke a international conflict.

I'm sorry but in this particular case, in my opinion it's 90% possibilities that was staged.

One thing that I don't understand, is if after the agreement of Geneve, most of pro-Russian violent groups said that they don't recognise such agreement ( each one of them for different reasons ) nor any truce, why now they say that Kiev has broken the agreement?

Even if it was true that the attackers were from the Right Sector, that city is now under control of the Pro-Russian groups, how were they supposed to prevent that?

[Tonci87 163]

Yes, when somebody target into your car it more interesting to seat there and wait when it start to burn after attack. :)

Pravy Sector buisness card - is not a document, but it can be helpfull in different situations.

Dollars? Whats wrong with them? I have some buisness with people from Ukraine. And i pay always a dollars, new, old, doesn't matter.

P.S. Some messages coming from locals, that cars wasn't ruined at all in firefight. Cars was burned in the morning, by angry relatives of killed self-defence guys. I don't know whome to believe. :butbut:

Yeah me neither. Those two dudes couldn´t have all that gear on their body, so most of it must be from the car. So why isn´t it damaged in any way? Did you see the cars? They look like a whole squad blasted away at them. At least some of the things on display should be visibly damaged.

Why are the license plates completely unstained? They look like someone put them on after the fire died out. Also that BBC reporter said that there were no gun cartridges visible at the checkpoint. Well such a firefight usually leaves a lot of cartridges behind....

Why were the cars burned? Surely there must have been people guarding the place of the firefight.

Stuff just doesn´t fit together. It is very weird. Maybe the whole thing is set up by the Separatists so that they can claim to be victims and ask Russia for help. I guess they must be pretty desperate after the Geneva convention.

[arttem 1]

http://youtu.be/CMO41IwATWE

My translation:

- 4 cars arrive to checkpoint at 1 am.
- one our guy go forward to first car.
- when he said that he need to check baggage, he was killed immediately from automatic rifle.
- and in that moment sniper start to work, second guy was killed by sniper right in the head (nose bridge).
- third guy was killed in few next moments on the road by sniper.
- chaotic shooting begins.
- Pravy sector guys start to retrieve.
- They leave battle scene on 2 cars from the end of the column.
- Two cars was burned by us.
- From cars we taked dogtags, documents, uniform, different equipment, GPS, nightvision, ammo. Germany weapons and handgrenades.
- Many fresh shells from the automatic and foreign weapons, go and see by yourself.
- I think they thought that we was drunked here or we are kids. (he means that checkpoint guys was a surprise for them, they placed only one sniper near the road for emergency).
- Yes, people was celebrating, they was in churches and we closed city.

P.S. From me. As i understand, sniper go out from the car previously and was waiting how situation will be going. As a cover for emergency.
P.S.S. Please don't focus your attention to "German weapons" from his speech. It's not German. It's a clones from Yugoslavia. And Ukraine army have them in storages.

---------- Post added at 19:37 ---------- Previous post was at 19:22 ----------

Those two dudes couldn´t have all that gear on their body, so most of it must be from the car. So why isn´t it damaged in any way? Did you see the cars? They look like a whole squad blasted away at them.

I see 1 bullet hole in first car and 4 bullet holes in second car. All holes in doors. It tells that they was opened in firefight and thats all. About what squad you are talking i don't know. Ordinary burned cars, nothing interesting.

Edited April 20, 2014 by ArtTem

[Tonci87 163]

Watch the video on this page. Clearly there aren´t only bullet holes on the doors, those cars were shot from the side.

http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/ukraine-konflikt166.html

I meant to say that the cars look like a bunch of dudes used them for target practise. So at least something should be damaged by bullets. The MG is indeed of Jugoslawian origin, Zastava M53, a clone of the MG-42. The only difference is that it has a slightly lower rate of fire. Awesome thing.

[arttem 1]

Watch the video on this page. Clearly there aren´t only bullet holes on the doors, those cars were shot from the side.

http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/ukraine-konflikt166.html

Lets look closer.

Mitsubishi.

http://s020.radikal.ru/i719/1404/84/06e162e4eb34.png (2403 kB)

LandRover

http://i058.radikal.ru/1404/fa/508601005922.png (1756 kB)

So. I still don't understand what are you talking about. What dudes you mean? What practise? Practise to shoot in corner of the van? Why LandRover is clear?

I see that somebody was hiding from the right side of Mitsubishi. And somebody was flank from the left to take that guy or guys. And thats all.

Edited April 20, 2014 by ArtTem