Ukraine General

[mistyronin 1181]

Well I think that the fighter pilots have to be one of the group of soldiers best trained in the Ukrainian Armed Forces ( tend to be the elite in most of the armies of the world ).

About the rest:

( The Guardian ) Ukrainian troops 'demoralised' as civilians face down anti-terror drive

The confusion among Ukrainian toops reflect the lack of a plan by their leadership in Kiev, said Alexei Melnik, a defence analyst at the Razumkov centre. He said commanders should not have moved the fighting vehicles into these towns, where they were predictably mobbed by angry residents.

"There was a certain moment when we could speak about high morale among the troops because there was a common enemy, but the indecision and lack of guidance from the top is demoralising our armed forces," Melnik said. "The message that we are in a state of war should be repeated constantly."

The inaction and defections may reflect deeper problems within the Ukrainian military, including shortages of battle-ready fighters and equipment. Authorities have hastily tried to create a national guard in the past month and been forced to seek donations from businesses.

[akm74 1]

Lol, those aren´t knive wounds, I know what they look like. But did these people really try to take away the guns of the soldiers? I´m honestly amazed that noone was killed.

About the surrendered BMDs:

It was just on the news here in Germany. They interviewed one of the guys from the BMDs and he said that they are from Crimea, that they came to help the Russians in the east Ukraine. Somehow it looks more and more like those BMDs didn´t change sides but came as a propaganda and motivational tool.

@ArtTem It is not just a digital symbol, it´s flamebaiting, something that can get you kicked out of this thread.

Thanks for links. I can't find "They interviewed one of the guys from the BMDs and he said that they are from Crimea" part. Do i just miss it ?

[Tonci87 163]

Thanks for links. I can't find "They interviewed one of the guys from the BMDs and he said that they are from Crimea" part. Do i just miss it ?

It is in the video @0:23 (middle of the page)

[akm74 1]

It is in the video @0:23 (middle of the page)

i see. Thanks. What he have to do with 6 deflected BMD's and 90 paratroopers ?

[Beagle 684]

i see. Thanks. What he have to do with 6 deflected BMD's and 90 paratroopers ?

Well, what you have to do with it? Last time I had a look the russian flag was officially flying over crimea and crimeans got handed out russian passports.

[akm74 1]

Well, what you have to do with it? Last time I had a look the russian flag was officially flying over crimea and crimeans got handed out russian passports.

I mean this guys sad "we did't have a chance to get Russian citizenship"... so who are they? I did't speak German (sorry). But that's what he sad in Russian.

[Tonci87 163]

I mean this guys sad "we did't have a chance to get Russian citizenship"... so who are they? I did't speak German (sorry). But that's what he sad in Russian.

Interesting.

here is what the translator says:

We came here to help the citizens. We are from the Krim. We had our referendum to join russia, the citizens here asked us for help.

[mistyronin 1181]

A clash seem to have happened in Mariupol.

There are multiple local reports of a clash in the southern port city of Mariupol, where a crowd of people lay siege to a Ukrainian military post and met strong resistance. The situation appears to have calmed, according to the reports, some of which mention casualties, at present unconfirmed by the Guardian.

[arttem 1]

Interesting.

here is what the translator says:

Shortly. He is saying: "We come from Crimea to help. They asked us (seems he means people of Donezk). You know, we all (people of Crimea) made a referendum in Crimea. We have not yet had time to take Russian citizenship."

Edited April 16, 2014 by ArtTem

[Tonci87 163]

What the fuck is wrong with those people?

[akm74 1]

man, Luke Harding (The Guardian) become one of my favorite reporter lately. Not "obvious" side taking, no brainwashing and a little bet of humor (always welcome)

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/16/kiev-eastern-ukraine-pro-russians-army-vehicles

---------- Post added at 18:23 ---------- Previous post was at 18:08 ----------

What the fuck is wrong with those people?

ViceNews is a little "slow" on news. This "colonel" was prove to be Kiev provocateur couple of days ago ? I do believe they actively seeking for him. But video itself very informative. If this guy lead crowd and push them to beat police officer ... I have not doubt now who give order to shoot their own protesters in the back at Maidan.

Edited April 16, 2014 by AKM74

[arttem 1]

Artem is a little "slow" on news. This "colonel" was prove to be Kiev provocateur couple of days ago ?

I'm not slow. I know his name and family name - Igor Bezler, do you have strong proofs? No? So that's why i'm not posting info about him here or elsewhere. And don't saying such things. If i get some proofs, i'll post full info about that guy.

It's not my style to post everything that i see around.

[akm74 1]

I'm not slow. I know his name and family name - Igor Bezler, do you have strong proofs? No? So that's why i'm not posting info about him here or elsewhere. And don't saying such things. If i get some proofs, i'll post full info about that guy.

It's not my style to post everything that i see around.

No no, its not you. I was mean Artem - reporter from Vice-news (YouTube channel). Sorry for confusion. Corrected.

Edited April 16, 2014 by AKM74

[arttem 1]

No no, its not you. I was mean Artem - reporter from Vice-news (YouTube channel). Sorry for confusion. Corrected.

No problems. :)

https://twitter.com/SimonOstrovsky

[akm74 1]

There is no large Russian military presence in East Ukraine, head of EU intelligence, Commodore Georgij Alafuzoff, has said. The spy chief has dismissed multiple accusations from the West alleging Russian involvement in the unrest in the region. In an interview with Finnish national news broadcaster, Yle, Alafuzoff said the Russian military had nothing to do with the seizing of government buildings in eastern Ukraine.

http://rt.com/news/eu-no-russian-interference-ukraine-844/

[arttem 1]

Prezident Miloš Zeman.

"Na Ukrajině bojují gangsteři proti gangsterům, řekl Zeman studentům."

http://hradec.idnes.cz/prezident-milos-zeman-diskutoval-se-studenty-hradecke-univerzity-1dy-/hradec-zpravy.aspx?c=A140415_152912_hradec-zpravy_pos

"ChtÄ›l bych vyslovit nadÄ›ji, že vÄ›tÅ¡ina Äeské populace je duÅ¡evnÄ› normální, což ne vždy mohu říct o vÄ›tÅ¡inÄ› Äeských politiků," ukonÄil svůj ÄtyÅ™minutový monolog a pak tÅ™i ÄtvrtÄ› hodiny Äelil otázkám studentů.

Gangster může podle Zemana být i žena s krásnými copy

Možná i prezidenta pÅ™ekvapil velký zájem vysokoÅ¡koláků o souÄasné dÄ›ní na UkrajinÄ›.

"Ukrajina bude potÅ™ebovat silné vůdce a nikoli jednoho z gangsterů, kteří vládli pÅ™edtím, byÅ¥ by to byla žena s andÄ›lským úsmÄ›vem a krásnými copy," zmínil v narážce Julii TymoÅ¡enkovou a odmítl finanÄní pomoc zemi v nesnázích.

"Není v silách ÄŒeské republiky a dokonce ani Evropské unie, aby poskytovala pomoc UkrajinÄ›, protože by skonÄila v kapsách oligarchů a nedostala by se k normálním obÄanům. Podstatou ukrajinské revoluce je, že proti jednÄ›m gangsterům bojují druzí gangsteÅ™i," charakterizoval dÄ›ní na východÄ› a odhadl i ukrajinské Å¡ance na vstup do Evropské unie:

"PÅ™ibližnÄ› za 15 let. Do té doby musí projít nezbytnými reformami. Její pÅ™edÄasný vstup by diskreditoval Evropskou unii v oÄích Ukrajinců a Ukrajinu by diskreditoval v oÄích Älenů unie."

[mistyronin 1181]

What the fuck is wrong with those people?

That's what happen when people are getting highly manipulated by the media ( in this particular case Kremlin's one ). The same behavior can be found in religious extremist or football/sports hooligans.

Funny thing is that the same situation that Russian speaking Ukrainians live ( the lack of linguistically and cultural rights ) happens exactly with a lot of communities in most of the countries of the world, but there people don't start crazy armed rebellions because there is no warmonger country influencing them.

Well, it's that or that Russian speaking Ukrainians behave like violent animals by default, but I would love to think that it's just that they have been brainwashed ( even the UN recognize it ).

Edited April 17, 2014 by MistyRonin
orthography

[derk yall 0]

ArtTem: Since you are qouting czech media for several time. Can you translate or quote the important bit for english reader? I think that pasting the whole message in non-english language, without any translation or clarification is maybe breaking the rules.

And no one is or was expecting for ukraine to enter very soon, so nothing he said is new. Just that by his opinion it will have to take 15 year, wich is what it is, his opinion.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Derk Yall
spelling

[arttem 1]

That's what happen when people are getting highly manipulated by the media ( in this particular case Kremlin's one ).

Russian media was switched off in last month there. Whats wrong with Kremlin again?

---------- Post added at 04:56 ---------- Previous post was at 04:52 ----------

ArtTem: Since you are qouting czech media for several time. Can you translate or quote the important bit for english reader? I think that pasting the whole message in non-english language, without any translation or clarification is maybe breaking the rules.

And no one is or was expecting for ukraine to enter very soon, so nothing he said is new. Just that by his opinion it will have to take 15 year, wich is what it is, his opinion.

I guees, you need to go for example to Kiev and explain all that things to those people. And about money help too. ;)

[akm74 1]

And no one is or was expecting for ukraine to enter very soon, so nothing he said is new. Just that by his opinion it will have to take 15 year, wich is what it is, his opinion.

He is very optimistic if he think EU (as we see it now) will be around in 15 years. For economical and demographic reasons.

[derk yall 0]

What, explain that a president have a personal opinion? I think that any normal people know that anyone in any position have personal opinions.

I have a question, do you understand czech language or you are using a online translator?

AKM74: Whatever. So you know, this president is pro-good relation with Russia.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Derk Yall
response to AKM74

[arttem 1]

What, explain that a president have a personal opinion? I think that any normal people know that anyone in any position have personal opinions.

I have a question, do you understand czech language or you are using a online translator?

AKM74: Whatever. So you know, this president is pro-good relation with Russia.

His personal opinion somehow close to Russian. And somehow close to what mr. Churkin tries to say for all that months. And he said very important thing. In another words all their goals for which they was fighting is not attainable.

Miloš Zeman in english.

"Ukraine will need strong leaders, and not one of the gangsters, who ruled before, even though it was a woman with angelic smile and beautiful face," mentioned in the chronicles Yulia Tymoshenko and refused financial assistance to the country in trouble.

"It is not possible for the Czech republic and even the European union to provide assistance to Ukraine, because they ended up in the pockets of the oligarchs and not to the normal citizens. The essence of the Ukrainian revolution - is some local gangsters fighting with other local gangsters"

[derk yall 0]

Miloš Zeman is pro-russian, it's not secret and everyone know it. He had such opinion on Ukraine for several weeks, yet he still made the very important statement of what he will do if russia will try to annex or will annex eastern Ukraine. Or you already forgot what he said about NATO and military presence?

[arttem 1]

He had such opinion on Ukraine for several weeks, yet he still made the very important statement of what he will do if russia will try to annex or will annex eastern Ukraine. Or you already forgot what he said about NATO and military presence?

Ofcourse i remember. It is important for me that at least someone in sober mind and able to judge things as they are.

[derk yall 0]

Not exactly related to Ukraine situation, but writing sober minded and meaning Miloš Zeman is very funny. Try to find Miloš Zeman drunk (or "opilý") on youtube. :D