Ukraine General

[mistyronin 1181]

( BBC ) Ukraine in bid to retake buildings

( RIA Novosti ) Major Operation against Protesters Underway in Kharkiv

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( NY Times ) Ukraine’s Jews Dismiss Claims of Anti-Semitism

DNIPROPETROVSK, Ukraine — From his office atop the world’s biggest Jewish community center, Shmuel Kaminezki, the rabbi of this eastern Ukrainian city, has followed with dismay Russian claims that Ukraine is now in the hands of neo-Nazi extremists — and struggled to calm his panicked 85-year-old mother in New York.

Raised in Russia and a regular viewer of Russian television, she “calls every day to ask, Have the pogroms happened yet?†Rabbi Kaminezki said. He tells his mother that they have not, and that she should stop watching Russian TV. “It is a total lie,†he said. “Jews are not in danger in Ukraine.â€

Edited April 8, 2014 by MistyRonin

[scrim 1]

Beaten Right sektor members crawl through the 'pass of shame'.

Every single person who wants their nation to remain independent =/= a Nazi. The fact that riot police are required to keep relatively small (1000-2000 persons is very few for a popular uprising) but very violent crowd from lynching them because they disagree would if anything indicate the opposite. In the free world, people don't encourage killing others "because he disagreed". I think something I wrote in another thread applies to this, specifically regarding speaking about democracies based on ones own experiences:

"IDGF, it's like with sex: Until you've actually experienced it yourself, you don't get to act like an expert on it".

In other words, don't pretend that that film you so proudly linked displays anything even remotely close to behaviour acceptable for the human race, until you've actually lived for any mention-able time in a country that respects human rights and overall democracy. Unless you refer to the riot police who are keeping unarmed civilians from being strung up by a lynch mob.

[maturin 12]

Russia has been full of neo-nazis for years. Most of the supposed Ukrainian neo-nazis are just far-right nationalists, functionally identical to their wildly popular Russian counterparts. If Russia actually had free elections, the duma would be as full of right wing nutcases as Hungary's parliament. And by the way, Hungary's fascist party sent observers to the Crimean referendum, and enthusiastically approved of it. By RT's standards, Crimea is the Fourth Reich, then.

'The fascists of the future will be called anti-fascists.'

[batto 17]

( BBC ) Ukraine in bid to retake buildings

In the UA parliament brawl video, who are the guys pushed to right corner who get beaten most? Right-sector or communists?

[akm74 1]

http://www.gazeta.ru/politics/video/harkovchane_dali_otpor_spetsnazu.shtml Edited April 9, 2014 by AKM74

[spooky lynx 73]

Harkiv citizens report that foreign mercenaries are used against them, wearing suits of "Jaguar" MVD special unit based in Vinnitsa- "They understand or speak neither Russian nor Ukrainian, so we call them deaf jaguars".

[arttem 1]

In the UA parliament brawl video, who are the guys pushed to right corner who get beaten most? Right-sector or communists?

Petr Symonenko who make speech the Communist wing leader.

Two guys who was pushing him was from "Svoboda" freedom wing, leader Oleg Tyagnibok.

In next mass fight was involved: Communists, Svoboda, Regionals.

Video about nothing. It's a regular working mode for Rada.

[mistyronin 1181]

( BBC ) Ukraine in 48-hour ultimatum to east's pro-Russia activists

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( El País, Spanish ) “Putin cree que Occidente fomenta una revolución contra élâ€

I translated some parts:

Putin thinks that there is a Revolution against him, funded by the West. Because if he thought otherwise, he would have to recognize that he is a bad leader/politician, because he has already been 14 years in the government.

He doesn't want a cold war, but has cut the communications with the West, because that would mean the end of his regime.

Basically the point of this Russian analyst is that Putin is provoking all this issues, to keep himself in power distracting the Russian public opinion and blaming the West of his faults as politician.

Edited April 9, 2014 by MistyRonin

[surpher 1]

StopFake.org

[arttem 1]

StopFake.org

Ukraininan? The Mohyla School of Journalism? LOL....

The web site is created with an assistance from the U.S. Department of State through the Educational Partnership Program.

[scrim 1]

And every single media still available in Russia are directly controlled, overtly or covertly by the Russian regime, and yet I don't see any of the local Russians hesitating about linking to those pages. Oh the irony.

[arttem 1]

Lavrov, Kerry speak out against use of force in southeast Ukraine - Russian Foreign Ministry.

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_04_09/Lavrov-Kerry-speak-out-against-use-of-force-in-southeast-Ukraine-Russian-Foreign-Ministry-0592/

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and US Secretary of State John Kerry had one more telephone conversation on Wednesday at the initiative of the US side, the Russian Foreign Ministry reports.

"While exchanging opinions about the developments in southeast Ukraine the heads of Russian and US diplomacy called for renouncing any use of force and for directing the situation to a political and legal channel through talks.

[Beagle 684]

And every single media still available in Russia are directly controlled, overtly or covertly by the Russian regime, and yet I don't see any of the local Russians hesitating about linking to those pages. Oh the irony.

And western media is of course not regime controlled?

[ProfTournesol 956]

And western media is of course not regime controlled?

Not as much as Russian ones, no.

[Beagle 684]

Not as much as Russian ones, no.

Oh dear yes! Even out own constitutional court

assesed justr revcently that german main media is under state controll...but since we have no opposition anymore in parliament ofter the coalition of the two biggest parties the assesments of constitutional court are ignored anyway. And the very same situation you see in the "land of the free"...USA.

We have state controlled media and oligarchy in the western world too.

[akm74 1]

Not as much as Russian ones, no.

sorry to say it.. but it even worth for last 10-20 years.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Yeah, i know it's fun to say such thing on the Interweb, but everyone who seriously reads the press every day knows that i'm right.

[akm74 1]

Yeah, i know it's fun to say such thing on the Interweb, but everyone who seriously reads the press every day knows that i'm right.

no, unfortunately it not fun at all..

[Sgt.Spoetnik 10]

let me ask, how do the media get their money? big bussines. why? to make sure they will tell their story nothing else and they wont tell the side of those that oppose them, so how free is the press? not very much! big bussines ,banks and goverments control the press even if you dont see it! same story all over the world,west, east, south or north. western press Always pull cart off the west and same go's for the east or south. they go for the money not the ppl's intrest

for local news yeah its ok but when it comes to bigger stories they wont tell you anything or only lies. be critical when viewing the news and you will see it!

[ProfTournesol 956]

Pay attention guys, such arguments against the press are those that were used by all totalitarian movements around the world. "All rotten" or "all corrupted" are extremely dangerous arguments in democracies and only leads to favor extremist parties. Being critical leads to see that some press is much more controlled than others.

[scrim 1]

And western media is of course not regime controlled?

No. See, over here, even if people are total lunatics, they're free to set up their own news website, and not go to jail after the government shuts it down.

In Russia though...

[maturin 12]

And western media is of course not regime controlled?

Your world is a very simple place.

[Beagle 684]

Your world is a very simple place.

Indeed and I see it proffed every day whenever I watch the comedy show they call news these days...its hard to tell political cabaret from reality currently in the whole EU.

And of course we have very civilised ways to deal with people that say or do unconvient things to our oligarchs

There is allways a cosy place in psychiatric ward.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustl_Mollath

http://www.capital.de/themen/wie-der-staat-unbequeme-steuerfahnder-kaltstellt.html

I could not find a english version of the lastcase but it is about 4 Tax Investigator that got declared metally ill when they did not stop to investigate against some "friends" of leding politicians. That's what is going in the the free western world. Not a single person responsible for all 5 cases got persecuted in any way...that's a kind of deling that you would have expected in the late USSR.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Beagle

[mistyronin 1181]

IMO there is certain difference between EU press and Russian. It's clear that part of the EU press is controlled by big influence groups ( big groups of companies ) with certain affinities and obviously that affect their point of view ( one of the interesting groups is the one that leads Berlusconi with media in different countries ). There's also independent media which are more or less neutral, as they don't depend on "big bros". Even most of EU countries have public media which means that have a tendency to support the actual government and act a bit as their propaganda ( although there are laws that control that, to prevent partiality ).

And of course that at some point some scandals have been discovered, but have been before or later judged in a proper tribunal.

On the other hand in Russia the principal media is owned by the government without much parliamentary control, so basically act as a regime media propaganda. Of course that there are other little medias, with certain freedom, but are strictly controlled by the government, and sometimes if some journalist says too much may receive a treating call. Of course not like in the USSR, where that journalist may disappear completely.

Russia may not be a country 100% democratic, but is far away from the USSR dictatorship, although seems that Putin in its way to keep the power is taking more autocratic measures, which make the country closer to a dictatorship.

It kinds of remember me when Bush after the 9.11 took also awful autocratic measures that give him exceptional powers ( which has lead to for example the nasty and illegal "drone war" or the free license to spy ALL THE WORLD ).

Edited April 9, 2014 by MistyRonin

[spooky lynx 73]

ZDF scandal: Reports on behalf of Kiev?

Free independent press you say?:rolleyes:

People try to stop military convoy moving to to Donetsk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJk6bNcClk4

Edited April 10, 2014 by Spooky Lynx