Ukraine General

[arttem 1]

Here it is:

Whole dialog made me laugh.

Yeah. Photo of official on right side, he died in 2013. And he was working in Moscow as Deputy Minister of foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation till 1996. And Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary Ambassador of Russia in Ukraine till 1999. :)

Edited April 4, 2014 by ArtTem

[mistyronin 1181]

Yeah. Photo of official on right side, he died in 2013.

Well if according to the media he is still "talking", he could be a nice addition for Day-Z xD

[arttem 1]

Finns May Turn to Russia for Tactical Missile System

(Defence News) http://www.defensenews.com/article/20140403/DEFREG/304030022/Finns-May-Turn-Russia-Tactical-Missile-System

[mistyronin 1181]

Finns May Turn to Russia for Tactical Missile System

(Defence News) http://www.defensenews.com/article/20140403/DEFREG/304030022/Finns-May-Turn-Russia-Tactical-Missile-System

I'ven't read anything in the Finnish media, but could perfectly be ( in fact some of the Finland's Army equipment has Russian origin, for example the BMP-2 ). Finnish gov is known to play both sides to get better offers.

Although I fail to see the connection with the thread's subject.

[arttem 1]

Although I fail to see the connection with the thread's subject.

Crimea crisis, sanctions against Russia.

[Caselius 94]

Here is news (in Finnish) related to that situation. http://yle.fi/uutiset/hs_sadan_miljoonan_ohjuskauppa_usan_kanssa_peruuntui__hinta_liian_kova/7162911

It is still speculation, hence the "May" in the news title. According to linked news, it was planned to buy ATACMS missiles from USA, but the deal failed due too high prices and Finland is currently looking for an alternative. Deal failed some days ago, so I don't think they have decided as of yet. There is no mention of the matter in Finnish media since last week when the canceled deal was announced.

Crimea crisis, sanctions against Russia.

Even if we would make an deal with Russia, It wouldn't be much special thing.

Finnish prime minister was against the sanctions, but was against the Crimea "intervention". I'm very sure that Finnish government will try to keep as good trade relations with Russia, even when there is an crisis. It has been like this since end of World War II. Reason is that Russia is our biggest trading partner and our ministers don't want to take the risk.

Edit:

Major General Jukka Juusti (who is director of material-unit in Ministry of Defence) said to Finnish media that they have not considered Iskander missiles and that Defence News article had false information/rumors. (News are again in Finnish: http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ulkomaat/art-1288673914274.html )

Edited April 5, 2014 by Leopard

[akm74 1]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/03/20/how-people-in-south-ossetia-abkhazia-and-transnistria-feel-about-annexation-by-russia/

[mistyronin 1181]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/03/20/how-people-in-south-ossetia-abkhazia-and-transnistria-feel-about-annexation-by-russia/

Although ithis study has some interesting data ( like that Abkhazian Russians prefer it to be independent than annexed to Russia ). I feel it's a bit outdated ( feelings may have changed after the lastest events ).

IMHO the best would be to conduct a 100% independent referendum ( with all the democratic guarantees, UN observers from every country ) in those regions to decide what their population really want.

[arttem 1]

I feel it's a bit outdated ( feelings may have changed after the lastest events ).

US will be always the same. They are using info from 2008 in 2014 article. I was posting video from Abkhazia. My relatives travel there. And it's an absolutely independent state. They have president, parliament and their own army. Only one Russian small base stay near the border with Georgia. They patrol it with Abkhazia forces. No more any Russian forces in Abkhazia.

The problem of that little state is the lack of tourists. All their entire economy was built on tourism.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit:

Major General Jukka Juusti (who is director of material-unit in Ministry of Defence) said in Finnish media that they have not considered Iskander missiles and that Defence News article had false information/rumors. (News are again in Finnish: http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ulkomaat/art-1288673914274.html )

Sure. :) Agaaaaain. U.S. journal. :)

This is referred to discredit the actions of the Finland government in the eyes of the world, look - they are with evil Russkies. What they are doing? Huh? This is one of many levers to put pressure on the government of Finland.

Edited April 5, 2014 by ArtTem

[mistyronin 1181]

I think that the relation Finland and US is the same as with the most EU countries, its a relation between equals.

( BBC ) Ukraine: 'Darth Vader' presidency bid rejected

But the country's Central Electoral Commission says parts of Darth Vader's application were "questionable" and some paperwork was probably forged. Apparently, the man is really an electrician called Viktor Shevchenko, who changed his name to Darth Vader in March.

But at least one commission member suggests Darth Vader's campaign could be an attempt to discredit the upcoming election - possibly by Russia, which does not recognise the Ukraine's interim government. "It may seem like an innocent joke, but someone paid 2.5m hryvnyas ($227,000) for this joke," says Ihor Zhydenko, referring to the deposit that must be given along with the application.

Zhydenko adds that Darth Vader might run for the presidency in Russia, where he has received extensive media coverage. "They already have little green men," he says, referring to Russian troops in the Crimea region. "Such a commander-in-chief would be appropriate."

- - - - - - -

Its still worth to remember how everything started in Crimea, when Sergey Aksyonov ( that before the events in Kiev had already massed a little army ), who at that time had only 3 of the 100 seats of the Crimean Parliament but was invested president of Crimea unanimously.

Maybe the heavily armed Russian Forces that invaded the parliament the day before and were controlling the vote had something to do with the result...

Worth note too, that this man's father was a leader of the secessionist group in Transnistria.

- - - - -

Only one Russian small base stay near the border with Georgia. They patrol it with Abkhazia forces. No more any Russian forces in Abkhazia.

The problem of that little state is the lack of tourists. All their entire economy was built on tourism.

We are talking about an "independent country" that has less population that the city I live in, and whose citizens have Russian passport, and are sustained by Russia.

Ergo it's basically a protectorate of Russia, you could even say that de facto is virtually part of Russia, as in all effects any exterior relation is done by Moscow as no one recognize them.

But yeah they have an autonomous government that let them rule themselves as long as it agrees with the Kremlin's policies.

Edited April 5, 2014 by MistyRonin

[arttem 1]

Guy (National Guard) boasts, that he was shooting in "Berkut" from AK on maidan.

He is telling:

To tell you the truth? I just sat in transition with AK, and fired at the Berkuts. So they did not use the underground passage. Killed one there and shooted one there. Then I fell from the fifth floor locking the sniper. What do you think? Did someone gave a penny (for his participate)? I did everything to Maidan, and know we are terrorists. Maidan must be dismissed. WTF?

Not absolutly 100% correct translation. Just the main point.

[mistyronin 1181]

( The Telegraph ) Ukraine crisis: How Vladimir Putin is winning the psychological war

President Vladimir Putin has clearly taken this lesson to heart: his behaviour over Ukraine offers a masterclass in how to conduct psychological warfare. With every abrupt change of message or confusing new signal, he is trying to keep his opponents permanently off balance while retaining the initiative for himself.

Straight after Ukraine’s February revolution, the Kremlin’s first signal was one of reassurance. Sergei Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, confirmed his country’s “principled position of non-interference into Ukraine’s internal affairs†on Feb 25, declaring that Moscow’s aim was to “calm the situation downâ€.

Barely three days after those conciliatory words, Russian troops seized Crimea and triggered today’s crisis. Once that operation was complete, Mr Putin escalated the situation by massing thousands of troops on Ukraine’s eastern frontier. By last Friday, President Barack Obama was sufficiently alarmed to issue a public warning.

In response, Mr Putin carefully lowered the temperature. He picked up the phone and rang Mr Obama before dispatching his foreign minister to meet John Kerry, the US secretary of state. On Monday, Mr Putin assured Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, that some Russian troops would be pulled back from the border area.

On Tuesday, it emerged that no such withdrawal had taken place. Instead, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, the Nato secretary-general, warned of a “massive military build-upâ€.

[batto 17]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/03/20/how-people-in-south-ossetia-abkhazia-and-transnistria-feel-about-annexation-by-russia/

I feel it's a bit outdated ( feelings may have changed after the lastest events ).

I feel it's sad. Even though it's outdated, according to news it seems it holds on Russia.

1. Was the dissolution of the Soviet Union a right or a wrong step? YES

2. Do you trust the current Russian leadership? YES

To Russian members who would answer same:

What do you except from leaders you support?

I can't understand why do you support someone who continuously by little steps takes away your freedom (protests, Internet censorship, ...).

Why do you want Soviet Union back?

I guess it's either because you think that SU would bring better living standards (in which case I'd say you're wrong) or because you want Russia to dominate world for some reason. Sorry if I'm wrong, but the mood feels like you want the latter (this opinion is completely unrelated to "invasion" of Crimea, it includes people in Crimea, Abkhazia, ...).

Edited April 6, 2014 by batto

[Amra 10]

@batto, believe me there wouldn't be 2008 and today's Ukraine's crisis if not america's interest of bringing "democracy and freedom" into these and other ex-USSR states. Which is in fact means raising antirussian moods, unbridled russophobia, NATO bases and CIA prisons for torturing like in Uzbekistan. Putin does everything right by kicking USA far away from our borders. Unfortunately we got Putin tool late - Kosovo happened and Russia wasted 10 years because Yeltsin's government had america's hand in their asses.

[arttem 1]

@batto, believe me there wouldn't be 2008 and today's Ukraine's crisis if not america's interest of bringing "democracy and freedom" into these and other ex-USSR states. Which is in fact means raising antirussian moods, unbridled russophobia, NATO bases and CIA prisons for torturing like in Uzbekistan. Putin does everything right by kicking USA far away from our borders. Unfortunately we got Putin tool late - Kosovo happened and Russia wasted 10 years because Yeltsin's government had america's hand in their asses.

+100

P.S. @batto, only lazy pigs wanna SU back here. Cause they don't wanna to work. You'll never understand us. And you'll never understand Ptuin. We are from different universes.

[batto 17]

@Amra, Your spurious hatred against west is truly outstanding. You still didn't answer any of my previous questions. Why do you want anything USA far away from your borders? How will it make you feel better? Are you really that naive to think that USA would try to conventionally attack Russia anytime soon? For what reason?

By the way, I'm from ex-USSR country and despite all current politics problems I'm very grateful for NOT being under f*cking USSR commie rule thanks to the "democracy and freedom". But this is NOT Russo-phobia! This is hatred against dictatorship.

You'll never understand us. And you'll never understand Ptuin. We are from different universes.

Why do you post in this thread then?

Edited April 6, 2014 by batto

[Amra 10]

@Amra, Your spurious hatred against west is truly outstanding. You still didn't answer any of my previous questions. Why do you want anything USA far away from your borders? How will it make you feel better? Are you really that naive to think that USA would try to conventionally attack Russia anytime soon? For what reason?

By the way, I'm from ex-USSR country and despite all current politics problems I'm very grateful for NOT being under f*cking USSR commie rule thanks to the "democracy and freedom". But this is NOT Russo-phobia! This is hatred against dictatorship.

Why do you post in this thread then?

LOL, that hurdy-gurdy will spin forever. "Why don't you want NATO bases at your borders?", "Why don't you want missile defense in Eastern Europe?", "Why don't you want your WW2 monuments ruined and your role in WW2 painted in black?", "Why don't you want to become a nation of criminals, who did a lot of crimes against white and fluffies? You should be glad to pay compensations, ruin your country by freeing Chechenia, Tatarstan, Siberia and whatelse, give back lands you take from Germany, Baltic states, Finnland and Japan".

[carlostex 38]

@Amra, Your spurious hatred against west is truly outstanding. You still didn't answer any of my previous questions. Why do you want anything USA far away from your borders? How will it make you feel better? Are you really that naive to think that USA would try to conventionally attack Russia anytime soon? For what reason?

+1000

It seems to me some people are led to believe they still live in the cold war, and USA and the West are Satan. This is the Putin psyche. Some of these hardcore nationalists can go as far as having channels on youtube where they say every US and west weapon system is shit and how much better the Russian counterpart is. Even better, the moon landings were faked, America lied to the whole world...

Of course not all Russians are like this, and believe me i know that.

A Russian actually told me this:

Few years ago one of high-level Russian officials said in his blog that his wish is that all of dissatisfied Russian people went out one day to a large square, screaming 'Stop corruption!', so that the Panzer Army would reel them all onto caterpillar tracks like the shit they are.

---------- Post added at 10:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 AM ----------

"Why don't you want missile defense in Eastern Europe?"

Why are you afraid of such shitty NATO anti-ballistic missile system?

"Why don't you want your WW2 monuments ruined and your role in WW2 painted in black?"

Why should Latvia or Poland or so many other nations have monuments of the USSR? Every sane person knows that USSR made the greatest contribution to WW2. Why should i have a Lenin statue visible from my room window?

[spooky lynx 73]

Regarding Abhasia, most of its citizens were for re-union with Russia after the war and before it (most of the population voted for staying in USSR and prolongation of union treaty during that famous referendum). But after some steps of our government they got used to live in unrecognized state and don't believe to Russian officials much anymore. And I understand them very much at least because of our glorious customs servicemen there (I hate them:mad:).

[arttem 1]

This is hatred against dictatorship.

http://i.imgur.com/scBGxKY.png (288 kB)

Dogs bark, but the caravan goes on.

---------- Post added at 09:44 ---------- Previous post was at 09:27 ----------

Regarding Abhasia, most of its citizens were for re-union with Russia after the war and before it (most of the population voted for staying in USSR and prolongation of union treaty during that famous referendum). But after some steps of our government they got used to live in unrecognized state and don't believe to Russian officials much anymore. And I understand them very much at least because of our glorious customs servicemen there (I hate them:mad:).

Can you share some info?

There is no any "hard" customs control to individuals, as i remember for 2 or 3 years.

Yes, our glorious customs servicemen is a real problem. And Putin and Medvedev was speaking about that many times.

If you are talking about queues, for example, on the Russian-Finnish border, it's about 15-20 km. It's a main problem of all checkpoints in Russia. Not only Abhasia.

[mistyronin 1181]

@batto, believe me there wouldn't be 2008 and today's Ukraine's crisis if not america's interest of bringing "democracy and freedom" into these and other ex-USSR states. Which is in fact means raising antirussian moods, unbridled russophobia, NATO bases and CIA prisons for torturing like in Uzbekistan. Putin does everything right by kicking USA far away from our borders. Unfortunately we got Putin tool late - Kosovo happened and Russia wasted 10 years because Yeltsin's government had america's hand in their asses.

Let's analyze a bit, first Russia ( nor anyone ) has no ownership among other countries; sovereign countries are free and must be free to decide whatever future they want ( as long as they don't start invading others ). So if ex USSR countries prefer a democratic system as their european neighbors, so be it ( same as if they prefer a China like system ), they are sovereign countries.

BTW the origin of the russophobia is not because of the influence of US or the democracy, but because of how Russians behave when they "liberate" ( slave ) others after the WW2 ( for you the Great Patriotic War ). Unlike the other Allies tat did there job, but then let the truly liberate countries decide their fate.

Former Soviet countries people don't like Russian WW2 statues because they represent oppression, the same as if there were nazi ones. And yeah Stalin send more people to death than Hitler, it has already been proven after the opening of the USSR archives after the fall of the Berlin's wall. The USSR was a disease for most of that countries, a break for their progress. now they have get rid of that, don't want ever to repeat.

Just to finish, if they want US bases and antimissile systems, its precisely because they are afraid that Russia is gonna try to oppress them again. The funny thing is that most of that countries don't specially like the US, but prefer them ten thousand times as the Russian bully.

German gov had already recognized their crimes, but Russia ( as successor of the USSR ) hasn't apologized yet nor being judged for invading and oppressing Eastern Europe.

Edited April 6, 2014 by MistyRonin

[arttem 1]

Let's analyze a bit, first Russia ( nor anyone ) has no ownership among other countries; sovereign countries are free and must be free to decide whatever future they want ( as long as they don't start invading others ). So if ex USSR countries prefer a democratic system as their european neighbors, so be it ( same as if they prefer a China like system ), they are sovereign countries.

BTW the origin of the russophobia is not because of the influence of US or the democracy, but because of how Russians behave when they "liberate" ( slave ) others after the WW2 ( for you the Great Patriotic War ). Unlike the other Allies tat did there job, but then let the truly liberate countries decide their fate.

Former Soviet countries people don't like Russian WW2 statues because they represent oppression, the same as if there were nazi ones. And yeah Stalin send more people to death than Hitler, it has already been proven after the opening of the USSR archives after the fall of the Berlin's wall. The USSR was a disease for most of that countries, a break for their progress. now they have get rid of that, don't want ever to repeat.

Just to finish, if they want US bases and antimissile systems, its precisely because they are afraid that Russia is gonna try to oppress them again. The funny thing is that most of that countries don't specially like the US, but prefer them ten thousand times as the Russian bully.

MistyRonin thank you. But we know about that. It's not a closed info here. :)

[mistyronin 1181]

MistyRonin thank you. But we know about that. It's not a closed info here. :)

Well some Russians seem to forgot some of that facts from time to time, for example Putin himself.

The funny thing, is that Russia could be a great country, admired all over the world with lots of influence, if instead of being a bully and using their militar power; invested in education, trade, etc.

Holly cow, if Russia has all the ingredients to be one of the cultural powers of the world, with their awesome writers, musicians, museums, etc.

For instance, if instead of increasing gas prices, having military on the border, invading Crimea; Putin had negotiate, offered good deals to the new government as for example the EU is doing; probably Ukranians would listen to what Russia says and if not Russia would have to accept it.

Look at Afghanistan, the US has done everything, giving them hundreds of millions, equipment, invest in their companies, rebuild part of the country, tried to provide security, etc. And nowadays the Afghan government ignores the US, and even sides with Russia. What do Obama do? Nuke them? Threaten them?

Just hope that eventually some good politician will lead Russia far away from the old fashioned warmongering ( that shows how weak Russia is now ) to a modern country, strong and proud.

Edited April 6, 2014 by MistyRonin

[arttem 1]

Well some Russians seem to forgot some of that facts from time to time, for example Putin himself.

The funny thing, is that Russia could be a great country, admired all over the world with lots of influence, if instead of being a bully and using their militar power; invested in education, trade, etc.

For instance, if instead of increasing gas prices, having military on the border, invading Crimea; Putin had negotiate, offered good deals to the new government as for example the EU is doing; probably Ukranians would listen to what Russia says and if not Russia would have to accept it.

Look at Afghanistan, the US has done everything, giving them hundreds of millions, equipment, invest in their companies, rebuild part of the country, tried to provide security, etc. And nowadays the Afghan government ignores the US, and even sides with Russia. What do Obama do? Nuke them? Threaten them?

Whaaaa? Security? You call it security? That hell that they maded there without any result, it calls security? They leave country and Afghanistan start to cry. German journalist killed. Massive crimes. Taliban doing what they want again. And Taliban was doing what they want all the time while US was there, not so much as now. How many civilians Apache pilots killed? Stop it please. And who created Taliban? Who was the main sponsor? Where they get Stingers and other stuff? Iran, oh LOL. And now US fighting with their own child? It's a hypocrisy.

P.S. President of Afghan was making an official call to US government, not Russia. Just a remark.

[mistyronin 1181]

Whaaaa? Security? You call it security?

First I said tried, although to secure Afghanistan it's a difficult job because it requires to understand the local population and educate it ( weapons have no use ).

The Taliban were created among the tribes to fight the invaders, and where funded and trained by the US during the Cold War, which I think they now regret.

But that was just an example. The main point is that Russia could be a great and powerful country instead of the weak bully that is now, that if its not for its army they wouldn't even be looked at.

Think about it, who you prefer to be: the bully that everyone fears and no one trusts, that people put aside and can only have relations with other monsters ( like North Korea ) or one hard working pal with friends to whom ask for help if in need, that everyone can trust and like?

Russia has been for a long time the first, but could perfectly be the second.