Ukraine General

[spooky lynx 73]

Excuse me but they were there according to treaty since 1992 already.

[Tonci87 163]

Where were they and how many of them?

[ProfTournesol 956]

Propaganda is so propaganda...

What Ukraine suffered from most of all is the will of US to create a ram against Russia, by massive anti-Russian propaganda and sponsoring nationalism since gaining independence.

 

Well, sure there isn't any propaganda coming from Russia, that's a very well known fact across the world.

[spooky lynx 73]

Mainly near the shore, but also at the center of Crimea (for example, Gvardeyskoe naval airbase). As for the strength - that's the info belonging to secret one.

[Tonci87 163]

So if someone asked you two years ago to what country the crimea belongs, what would you have answered?

[St. Jimmy 272]

It's not so easy to say where Crimea belongs because it has been in both side use and it's also autonomous so it kind of doesn't belong either one of them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevastopol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_Republic_of_Crimea

 

Eastern Ukraine in the other hand is easy to say that it belongs to Ukraine and that's the reason why there's fighting.

[spooky lynx 73]

So if someone asked you two years ago to what country the crimea belongs, what would you have answered?

I'd say unfortunately it belongs to bananian republic called Ukraine. I find the collapse of USSR one of the greatest mistakes and tragedies.

[vilas 473]

freedom is basing on this that people can make what they want

USSR was country enslaving others

[Tonci87 163]

freedom is basing on this that people can make what they want

USSR was country enslaving others

 

And it was such a great country that it needed the iron curtain and rigurous travel controls to keep it´s people in that "paradise"

Guess what, people in the west could travel where ever they god damn wanted.

[spooky lynx 73]

Like it or not but we had to create security buffer to prevent another 1941. For someone it's enslaving maybe. For someone it's additional 'air bag' and guarantee that next time we won't see armies of our neighbors on our soil.

[Tonci87 163]

Oh cut the bullshit. The second world war wasn´t the first time Poland had seen Russian troops on its soil, and Russia was just too happy to start world war 2 together with Germany by invading Poland. Air bag my ass.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Like it or not but we had to create security buffer to prevent another 1941. For someone it's enslaving maybe. For someone it's additional 'air bag' and guarantee that next time we won't see armies of our neighbors on our soil.

 

Wonderful airbag, with thousands of Polish officers executed by NKVD, for what protection reason exactly ?

[spooky lynx 73]

Wonderful airbag, with thousands of Polish officers executed by NKVD, for what protection reason exactly ?

I'd remind that Barbarossa plan was executed together with Slovak, Hungarian, Romanian armies. So for us it was better to have frontier moved further to their borders with countries formed NATO than have common border. Unfortunately different kinds of 'liberators' and Drang nach Ost lovers come to us from west rather often (including Poland willing to create Greater Polska from sea to sea some centuries ago).

 

 

Russia was just too happy to start world war 2 together with Germany by invading Poland. Air bag my ass.

Oh and nobody (including Poland) did not rip apart Czechoslovakia ;)

[Tonci87 163]

And what was with the times before that? Russias aim during the imperial and Soviet times was ALWAYS to unite all slavic nations under it´s rule (make them their slaves essentially), no matter if they are willing or not. East Europe was always threatened by Russia. It was always Russia invading them, not the other way around.

Pre WW1 there was always the Austrian empire and to some degree the Prussians reliably keeping the Tsars away, when both of those forces were gone after WW2 Russia was free to sweep across half of Europe.

[vilas 473]

Russians have "different version of history"

 

also they cannot stand that before XVIII century Poland-Lithuanian kindgom was very big empire in Europe, which was latter divided by Prussia, Austia-Hungary, Russia and occupied for 123 years, 

 

and Czechoslovakia is another communist propaganda tale, in fact Poland had after WW1 borders signed in several pacts, but during Soviet invasion on Poland in 1919 Czechoslovak forces used opportunity and took few kilometers, later in 1938 Poland took away those few kilometers

 

https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polsko-czechos%C5%82owackie_konflikty_graniczne

 

it was different

this area of "Zaolzie" was agreed to be Poland, but Czechoslovakia not respected agreement and in 1919 took this land, other words Czechoslovakia anexed this few kilometers,

communist propaganda loves to see when Poland anexed few villages which were ehtnic Polish, but communist propaganda do not like to see that in 1919-1920 Czechoslovak forces took those few villages to Czechoslovakia despite of previous border-agreements,

 

i would suggest reading history other than made in USSR

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partitions_of_Poland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification

 

and what about partition of Poland and occupation for 123 years (as well as FInland)

 

since 1790s till 1918 Poland was occupied by Russian Empire

 

now Russian ambasadors in the world spread bullshit verion of history, that Poland was ally of Hitler and both organized holocaust - in Venesuela Russian ambasador said it in interview, guy also denied Stalin crimes that they not occured

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_repression_in_the_Soviet_Union

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_repressions_of_Polish_citizens_%281939%E2%80%9346%29

http://www.derekcrowe.com/post.aspx?id=31

and all before 1918 during Tsar Empire from 1790s - 1914

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poles_in_Kazakhstan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybirak

what the hell my countrymen do in far asia?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_conquest_of_Siberia

eastern parto of Asia was not Russian ethnic ages ago

[spooky lynx 73]

Google who is Ivan Susanin, Minin and Pozharsky, and you won't say East Europe hadn't invaded Russia.

[vilas 473]

Russia have obsesion about XVI century and things from year 1600

 

back than we should have obsession on Sweden cause Sweden attacked Poland in 1600s

 

the same time Russia attacked Syberia etc.

it was time of empires, and very changing borders of kings , knights, nobles

[Dwarden 1124]

Vilas just stop the 'Polish' view of Zaolzie,

in fact according to WW1-end-peace treaties and postWW1 treaties, the whole area (way bigger than CSR 'claimed') was supposed to belong to CSR

because it was part of Czech kingdom for previous 1k years ...

the reason CSR used force to occupy it was Poland doing 'voting' to turn-over the decision of Allies in those treaties

and for CSR the area was more strategically critical than you realize (not due to coal)

but because it had at the time the ONLY usable railroad connection to Slovakia

it had nothing to do with Poland-Russia wars ...

so, same as you blame Russia for 'twisted pro-Russian' history, you suffer from same 'pro-Poland' history

yes, I do agree, the way Benes obtained the 'approval' from Allies for the territory to belong to Czech wasn't nice to Poland but it was normal diplomatic win

[spooky lynx 73]

Russians have "different version of history"

Everybody have its own version of history. I don't see any words about opressions of orthodox church committed by Poland in Ukraine and Polish imperial ambitions (maybe you find it okay) but many accusations in 'russification' and 'imperial ambitions of Russia'. Also I don't see any words about murder of many Red army captives in death camps after Soviet-Polish war. But tons of anger about Katyn.

 

 

also they cannot stand that before XVIII century Poland-Lithuanian kindgom was very big empire in Europe, which was latter divided by Prussia, Austia-Hungary, Russia and occupied for 123 years, 

Yes very big empire that tried to wipe out my country, enslave the population and convert to catholicism. There were struggle between two countries, Poland lost it. Deal with it, guys. And be brave at least and admit you still have the same imperial ambitions and may use the same methods as Russian empire and USSR. But you are just not lucky.

[vilas 473]

it was explained several times, those prisoners of war were not murdered but died due to poor conditions during war time

again stalin propaganda, noone shot them, they died from sickness and lack of medical help due to wartime conditions in POW camps

and 123 years before Russia occupied our land and than Soviet army attacked us when we wanted independance

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_War

this war stopped spreading communist cancer to rest of europe

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camps_for_Russian_prisoners_and_internees_in_Poland_%281919%E2%80%9324%29

 

Stalin propaganda says nothing about Polish prisoners of war - similar number and similar deaths in 1919-1920 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_prisoners_and_internees_in_the_Soviet_Union_and_Lithuania_%281919%E2%80%9321%29

[spooky lynx 73]

Well, okay, poor conditions, war time... What other excuses?

 

 

this war stopped spreading communist cancer to rest of europe

Thanks to this 'cancer' people in Europe have many social benefits and employment regulations that were introduced because of need to compete with communist ideology.

[vilas 473]

comunists confiscated private property , they were thieves , i do not say about nobles property but about usual people including farmers,

idiosts without education were getting officers ranks and shooting those who could read and confiscated cars, pigs, houses

comunism based on stealing property and terrorism against those who wanted free elections, multiplarty system

comunism banned more than 1 party , elections were fake (because only 1 party was existing), and 1 party ruled, if there were any elections,

much better workers conditions later people had in west than in communism where lots of people lived in poverty while communist leaders lived like nobles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulak

even in small things as cars design commies were pushing ideology , for example ban on produce sport car because "it looks imperialistic"

http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/7/11336/z11336537X.jpg

http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/46/ae/d8/z14200390Q.jpg

http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/58/ae/d8/z14200408Q,FSO-Warszawa-Ghia--prototyp-wersji-kombi--1959-rok.jpg

Polish commies banned production of those cars "because they look too much imperialistic", first secratary of communist party was judging design of cars "if it looks like Soviet or not"

commies do not tollerated other parties, democracy, free market, creating insitution to kill people who wanted usual democracy and industry

communism not works, it is uthopian idea in economy which leads to fail

[Tonci87 163]

Well, okay, poor conditions, war time... What other excuses?

Thanks to this 'cancer' people in Europe have many social benefits and employment regulations that were introduced because of need to compete with communist ideology.

 

Competition? Against WHAT?

You are assuming that Socialism and Communism are the same thing, wich is just wrong. In the west (and most of the east) almost nobody wanted that damn communism. If people could choose they prefer to have a vote and an opinion instead of having one party with a few clueless idiots on top they can´t vote out.

 

The great benefits communism has brought to this world! Bad economy, political opression, cultural opression, religious opression, travel bans, hunger, famine, poverty, ruling elites, state terror, murder!

Capitalism isn´t perfect, very far from it, but it is still miles better than what communism had to offer.

 

The fact that people in the Soviet Union and the other states couldn´t travel freely because the authorities feared that they might escape to the west speaks volumes about wich system was better!

[spooky lynx 73]

Competition? Against WHAT?

Not against but for. For workers' minds who looked at rights and benefits given to their counterparts in USSR, like limited length of working day, free trips to local resorts etc.

 

 

The fact that people in the Soviet Union and the other states couldn´t travel freely because the authorities feared that they might escape to the west speaks volumes about wich system was better!

In fact they could. And travelled. For example my relative was granted with a trip to France for successful work in agriculture (she lived and worked in village) in 70's.

[Tonci87 163]

Not against but for. For workers' minds who looked at rights and benefits given to their counterparts in USSR, like limited length of working day, free trips to local resorts etc.

In fact they could. And travelled. For example my relative was granted with a trip to France for successful work in agriculture (she lived and worked in village) in 70's.

 

Possibly because your relative was A: in the party and regarded as a trustworthy person, B:because she still had family back home to wich she had to return.

Normal citizens couldn´t travel, that is a historical fact.