Ukraine General

[beastcat 14]

And he isn't the only one like that. By far! There are mass murderers and rapists among the pro russians, even in lead positions. Devils in human flesh. I can't understand anyone who supports them.

There is a huge number of russian mercenaries. People who fought in Transnistria, Chechnya, Georgia, you name it. Their work is war. Its all they know, its all they can do, its their life. And knowing the crimes the russian army has commited, one can only imagine what kind of people they are.

[Dwarden 1124]

I think if we could know who pays him, everything would be clearer.

it's obviously obvious who pays him and who he works for ...

[maturin 12]

Pay attention, people.

It should be obvious that Strelkov is pretty much an independent actor, fighting for his own ideals. His wages are paid by the heroic fantasy he is enacting, with himself as the hero.

In the meantime, he makes plenty of statements that are not terribly convenient for the Russian government, and if he fails in an improper manner, there is a dark black hole waiting for him somewhere.

[negah 26]

Somebody else posted this blog some time ago, sorry, I can't remember who it was, great find, please report in. There is a really great analysis which pinpoints the exact location where the rocket was fired from with pictures of the launch site and the exact way the buk came into Ukraine from Russia with pictures and proof and everything you might ask for.

The video of the missile launch might have been filmed on the other day as the actual shooting of the plane. I cant say if there is an actual filming date and time visible in the video itself (not in the caption) as the video is not playing back for me (its all black). How do we know it was the missile that shot down that plane and not one of the other military planes that were shot down over the time. Without the proof of the exact time and data that video means nothing.

Otherwise its too convenient that someone was exactly knowing when and where to film the missile launch. It would rather implicate that the ukrainians knew that the rebels would shoot down a civilian plane on that day. Thats why I want to know where are tha flight recorder data and the conversation of the flight controller with the plane. (Or was someone filming every missile launch just in case a civilian plane would go down some day?)

And about the "satellite" photos. I can as well take a screenshot from for example google maps and prove (with photoshop of course) it was Poroshenko who shot that plane down throwing a beer bottle at it.

Besides that blog is telling only about how russian troops are crossing the ukrainian border and shelling ukrainian troops. No one has posted there anything about ukraine shelling russian territory:

http://news.yahoo.com/one-man-killed-shell-ukraine-hits-russian-border-083948620.html

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/742070

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/07/ukraine-says-soldiers-under-fire-from-russia-201472592936697212.html

Oh wait what russians claim is all lies and cannot be believed, we must only blindly believe what Ukraine and its allies say.

Seems some ukrainian army servicemen are not that happy about shooting at their own people:

http://cyber-berkut.net/traitors/0019.php

Edited July 27, 2014 by negah

[spooky lynx 73]

Surprise from Human rights watch:

“Ukrainian authorities should order all their forces, including volunteer forces, to immediately stop using Grads in or near populated areas, and insurgent forces should avoid deploying in densely populated areas,†Solvang said. “Commanding officers on all sides should recognize that one day they could face legal consequences for their actions.â€

Nice to see more or less balanced report from them but not another "ZOMG EVIL RUSSKIE TERRORISTS KILL CIVILIANS AND SHELL EVERYTHING!!!1" UA style russophobic propaganda piece. Seems that MH17 provocation failed and even worsened situation for Kiev and its sponsors.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Seems that MH17 provocation failed and even worsened situation for Kiev and its sponsors.

I'm sorry but this has nothing to do with your quote of HRW, and that's still a nice fairy tale of Pro Russian propaganda. What's amazing is that the version of the "pro Kiev sponsors" (the whole world apart Russia) hasn't changed from the beginning, while the version of Pro Russian supporters has changed so many times...That's a pitiful defense if you ask me (but you don't ;)).

Edited July 27, 2014 by ProfTournesol

[mistyronin 1181]

Nice to see more or less balanced report from them but not another "ZOMG EVIL RUSSKIE TERRORISTS KILL CIVILIANS AND SHELL EVERYTHING!!!1" UA style russophobic propaganda piece. Seems that MH17 provocation failed and even worsened situation for Kiev and its sponsors.

I presume you have read the piece of news ( I say I presume, because your words are not related to it ).

Basically it says that Grad systems lack accuracy and that they shouldn't be used in highly populated areas, which I agree 100% And then it explains the different examples.

But says that both sides are using it. Obviously it ask more responsibilities from the Ukrainian Army as they are the legit army.

It has already proved that the pro-Russians have used terrorist methods ( like kidnaping, extrajudicial killings, etc. ), and yes including the killing of civilians. In fact the MH17 more and more seems to had been shoot down by the pro-Russian side so I don't understand why you even mention it, unless you think that it was a pro-Russian provocation.

Human Rights Watch said that insurgent forces have failed to take all feasible precautions to avoid deploying in densely populated areas' date=' thereby endangering civilians in violation of the laws of war. [/quote']

[maturin 12]

Surprise from Human rights watch:

It's far from a surprise for those whose view of the world isn't badly skewed by jingoistic mania.

[[frl]myke 14]

@Spooky Lynx

The fact that the ukrainian army also has killed civilans doesn't make the pro-russian separatists any better. For me it raises the question why they are hiding in dense populated area. Because they know that every attack will kill also civilians. Yep, looks like great heroes to me. Hiding behind children and women. Cowards.

But i admit, even western media shouldn't be trusted unquestioned. But every single claim brought up by each side draws a clear pic: pro-russian separatists mistaken flight MH17 as a military transport and shot it down. Most likely not on purpose and probably aswell shocked as soon they realized their mistake. Nonetheless cowardly denying any responsibility.

I wont even try to convince you since you wouldn't believe it anyway. But that's the good thing about the truth: it remains true, regardless if you believe it or not.

[tacticalnuggets 24]

Myke;2740991']@Spooky Lynx

The fact that the ukrainian army also has killed civilans doesn't make the pro-russian separatists any better. For me it raises the question why they are hiding in dense populated area. Because they know that every attack will kill also civilians. Yep' date=' looks like great heroes to me. Hiding behind children and women. Cowards.

But i admit, even western media shouldn't be trusted unquestioned. But every single claim brought up by each side draws a clear pic: pro-russian separatists mistaken flight MH17 as a military transport and shot it down. Most likely not on purpose and probably aswell shocked as soon they realized their mistake. Nonetheless cowardly denying any responsibility.

I wont even try to convince you since you wouldn't believe it anyway. But that's the good thing about the truth: it remains true, regardless if you believe it or not.[/quote']

How about the fact that there are rarely (if any) youtube videos of the rebels killing civilians? And how are they not supposed to be in cities, when half of them probably live there? LOL. These rebels are not professional military and you would be surprised how many attacks are autonomous, in other words not sanctioned by the common rebel leader. I have been absolutely swamped by anti-russian propaganda lately and its getting old.

Here are the facts:

- West ukraine wants all of ukraine

- Europe wants ukraine

- Russia wants ukraine

- Ethnic russians want east ukraine

- Nato wants ukraine

- A random fat rich person who'm we cannot identify, wants ukraine

So how about everyone burns their keyboard warrior propaganda flags and learns from history. As long as the Ukrainian military fights the rebels in a total war manner, the situation will only get worse. As the situation gets worse everyone will desire ukraine more. Its up to the ukrainian army to surrender the fight before they lose the ENTIRE country. Guerrilla wars are already over as soon as they spiral; they are like infections. Just cut off the infected area and see what you can do afterwards. Russia would have made a brilliant move if they didn't underestimate everyone's stupidity. But everyone seems to be joker level insane when it comes to playing with ww3.

EDIT: And I want my kiribati thread back, as it was probably flagged by one of the other *X country General* pseudo threads (more like damned sub-forums now)

[surpher 1]

(Al Jazeera) Ukraine forces battle for MH17 crash site

Ukrainian armed forces have mounted a major onslaught against pro-Russian separatist fighters in an attempt to gain control over the area where a Malaysia Airlines plane was downed earlier this month.

Local media reported that fighting was also taking place in the towns of Snizhne and Torez, the two nearest mid-sized towns to the crash site.

(The Telegraph) Europe finally set to get tough with 'erratic' Putin

European nations will now take "serious" steps to sanction the Russia economy this week after a weekend of intense negotiations and growing disillusionment with the "erratic" antics of the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, a well-placed source in Washington told The Telegraph last night.

However the mood in Europe is understood to have changed radically over the weekend after Mr Putin failed to return several phone calls from Angela Merkel, the German chancellor.

A separate western diplomatic source cited worrying Russian reports that Mr Putin was now behaving "erratically" in meetings and noted that he had failed to offer any last-minute concessions to mollify and divide Europe, as in the past.

(The Telegraph) Splits emerging in Putin's Russia as oligarchs locked in power struggle with Kremlin hardliners

Germany's intelligence services have informed Chancellor Angela Merkel's government that a power struggle is under way in the Kremlin with hardliners and oligarchs at loggerheads over how best to respond to western economic sanctions, according to media reports.

(Reuters) Hague court orders Russia to pay over $50 billion in Yukos case

The Hague's arbitration court ruled on Monday that Russia must pay a group of shareholders in oil giant Yukos $51.6 billion for expropriating its assets, a big hit for a country teetering on the brink of recession.

Edited July 28, 2014 by surpher

[mistyronin 1181]

How about the fact that there are rarely (if any) youtube videos of the rebels killing civilians? And how are they not supposed to be in cities, when half of them probably live there? LOL.

Most of the pro-Russian are former Soviet Afghanistan soldiers, as they recognize, another big part are former Berkut, there is also an important part of Russian Cossacks and even mercenaries.

Most of them are not from there, and the excuse that they are not "professional" doesn't work here. As most of them have more experience and training than the Ukraine's Army ( just read / watch the interviews, or both Russian and Western media lie about that?

BTW the fact that someone lives in a city doesn't meant that they can't "work" outside it, in checkpoints, etc. Or have the HQ in a factory or so. But the pro-Russians know that having their assets inside highly populated areas prevent the Ukrainian Army to use heavy weapons, so basically are using the population as human shield.

So how about everyone burns their keyboard warrior propaganda flags and learns from history. As long as the Ukrainian military fights the rebels in a total war manner, the situation will only get worse. As the situation gets worse everyone will desire ukraine more. Its up to the ukrainian army to surrender the fight before they lose the ENTIRE country.

I don't know to what history do you refer, but most of Ukraine didn't wanted any violent rebellion, you can even check the data from the elections and so on.

The rebellion was created and lead by Russian leaders that came from the Russian Federation, some of them from Moscow ( they recognize themselves their nationality ), most of them with experience in past conflicts Bosnia, Chechnya and Georgia.

Besides the fact that right now the pro-Russians only control a really tiny space, almost surrounded by the Ukraine's Army. Obviously there can be a posterior insurgency movement in the region, but the relatively "peace" is soon to come as most of the pro-Russian leaders and fighters are foreigners ( unless obviously the Russian Army decide to invade Ukraine ).

Edited July 28, 2014 by MistyRonin

[maturin 12]

Its up to the ukrainian army to surrender the fight before they lose the ENTIRE country. Guerrilla wars are already over as soon as they spiral; they are like infections. Just cut off the infected area and see what you can do afterwards. Russia would have made a brilliant move if they didn't underestimate everyone's stupidity. But everyone seems to be joker level insane when it comes to playing with ww3.

Yeah, no. This is not a guerrilla war. This is a conventional war being fought between two armies, both of whom have artillery and tanks, and are using them to shell populated areas.

There will be no guerrillia war in Eastern Ukraine of any significance. This is not the uprising of a population, it is a war fought against a tiny percentage of the cranks, violent thugs and nationalists in the largely apathetic population of Donbas. The rebel leaders are constantly complaining about how they can't get any more than a thousand or two volunteers from the MILLIONS of Russians living in their (now former) areas of control. Young men of fighting age are sitting on their hands while 60-yr old Red Army veterans raid rifles from museums. Most people in the DNR and LNR might favor the rebels more than the central government, but they aren't stupid enough to want to die for it. If not for the civilian casualties, there would be practically no support for violent resistance at all. If not for the large numbers of Russian volunteers, mercenaries and special forces troops, there would be no real uprising at all.

[beastcat 14]

I was gone for two days, what did I miss?

Here's what you guys may have missed:

We have almost completely surrounded Lugansk and since the separatists are not letting anyone on the crash site, the government has decided to try and push trough to the crash site, before they can destroy everything. It is going more or less successfully, with the army having pushed pretty far from the north and south, meaning they are not that far from the crash site anymore and that the supply line from Russia to Donetsk will soon be cut off. The army is also putting arty in place, that will be able to fire onto the main supply line, slowing down transport of soldiers, tanks, btrs, ammunition and so on from russia, after they have pushed back the separatists from an elevated position. It is not so good looking at the border however, because the russian army is constantly bombarding the Ukrainian army with 2S19 Mstas and BM-27 Uragans and the Ukrainians can't respond. This also makes it really hard to transport supplies and ammo to the soldiers at the border. The poor guys are basically a shooting gallery for russian artillery.

But at least the weather is nice...

[Bee8190 10]

(The Economist) A web of lies

The Economist LOL :rolleyes:

Does nobody find it strange that Russia is being sanctioned right from the beginning yet the controversy of information of what has actually, really, happened appears to be unclear after all that time?

I have seen a live report couple days ago from Ron Paul who said that Russian president V. Putin has been very cooperative in presenting all the information the Russian Intelligence has, including satellite images and that it was Putin himself calling for an unbiased team to gather evidence to be presented. Funnily enough, the video appears to be gone now.

Ron Paul and 'The Nation' want the U.S. to stop blaming poor Russia

Ron Paul wonders whether we can trust the mainstream media's coverage of #MH17

And some word from Vladimir Putin himself ( English subtitles )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dWsXSTUe2M

[negah 26]

Does nobody find it strange that Russia is being sanctioned right from the beginning yet the controversy of information of what has actually, really, happened appears to be unclear after all that time?

Because its not about truth or people or democracy or even Ukraine. The NATO is not interested in a real investigation of the plane tragedy, just as they never were interested in the investigation of maidan snipers or what happened in Odessa.

Its better to accuse Russia of all evils and sanction them, and some investigations could actually prove that Russia has nothing to do with it.

I think someone (guess who) tries to ruin russian economy and therefore stop their rise to power again. No one wants to share the rule over the world I guess.

[surpher 1]

I have seen a live report couple days ago from Ron Paul who said that Russian president V. Putin has been very cooperative in presenting all the information the Russian Intelligence has, including satellite images and that it was Putin himself calling for an unbiased team to gather evidence to be presented. Funnily enough, the video appears to be gone now.

Russian Intelligence :rolleyes:

[tacticalnuggets 24]

Most of the pro-Russian are former Soviet Afghanistan soldiers, as they recognize, another big part are former Berkut, there is also an important part of Russian Cossacks and even mercenaries.

Most of them are not from there, and the excuse that they are not "professional" doesn't work here. As most of them have more experience and training than the Ukraine's Army ( just read / watch the interviews, or both Russian and Western media lie about that?

BTW the fact that someone lives in a city doesn't meant that they can't "work" outside it, in checkpoints, etc. Or have the HQ in a factory or so. But the pro-Russians know that having their assets inside highly populated areas prevent the Ukrainian Army to use heavy weapons, so basically are using the population as human shield.

I don't know to what history do you refer, but most of Ukraine didn't wanted any violent rebellion, you can even check the data from the elections and so on.

The rebellion was created and lead by Russian leaders that came from the Russian Federation, some of them from Moscow ( they recognize themselves their nationality ), most of them with experience in past conflicts Bosnia, Chechnya and Georgia.

Besides the fact that right now the pro-Russians only control a really tiny space, almost surrounded by the Ukraine's Army. Obviously there can be a posterior insurgency movement in the region, but the relatively "peace" is soon to come as most of the pro-Russian leaders and fighters are foreigners ( unless obviously the Russian Army decide to invade Ukraine ).

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76256000/gif/_76256345_ukraine_rebel_control_area_.gif

Most of the news sources claiming that "most" of the pro-russian rebels are professional military quote sources from other news sources so it becomes a circle of nothing. If you do finally reach the last source, its just a promise from the government. Thats called propaganda by historical standard. RT and all the russian news agencies are doing the same damn thing. But whatever side you mentally choose is the one everyone seems to be trusting.

Next, just because they might be able to fight in the way YOU deem morally right does not mean its the right thing to do. The rebels are hiding wherever they can because that is how a guerrilla war operates, and it actually better fits my hypothesis than professional military in mass. Why? Because they are mostly civilians that just lost something in the war, taking up arms, and mindlessly fighting with others of the same nature. That is the most simple theory with proof from youtube and on the ground journalists. Most of the weapons and clothing are coming from russia, which is immorally using the ethnic-russians to gain political control.

Next, and the most important, is the fact that we are seeing the tip of an iceberg. Those rebel "officers" are in no way representative of the majority of ethnic-russian rebels/civilians. Most would even agree on this in a half hearted attempt side with the Ukrainian military, but if you watch how the unarmed civilians are taking casualties from total war strategies (like the artillery strikes on markets) then you know what the civilians probably think, or at least are beginning to think.

[beastcat 14]

Wait, you guys are still arguing about who shot down the plane? Aren't you tired? I mean we have all this evidence, there is only so much arguing you can do...

Edited July 28, 2014 by beastcat

[mistyronin 1181]

Most of the news sources claiming that "most" of the pro-russian rebels are professional military quote sources from other news sources so it becomes a circle of nothing. If you do finally reach the last source, its just a promise from the government.

What? No, the final source are documents and even books, for instance Igor Strelkov wrote an autobiography of his times in Bosnia, etc. Also some have shown they passports, former military documents, Berkut pass etc. Check the links in this same thread, there are dozens of them.

Next, just because they might be able to fight in the way YOU deem morally right does not mean its the right thing to do.

It's not about what I deem morally, when I served in the army as a professional I had to memorize a few books and documents about the different Geneva Conventions, Red Cross, etc. Besides that I also had to study some international law, etc.

And the pro-Russians have committed numerous war crimes.

Next, and the most important, is the fact that we are seeing the tip of an iceberg. Those rebel "officers" are in no way representative of the majority of ethnic-russian rebels/civilians. Most would even agree on this in a half hearted attempt side with the Ukrainian military, but if you watch how the unarmed civilians are taking casualties from total war strategies (like the artillery strikes on markets) then you know what the civilians probably think, or at least are beginning to think.

I was not only talking about the officers, again read this thread and check the links. You will see how many of the pro-Russian soldiers are Russians ( some try to avoid jail time, some for money, others adventurers, etc. )

Although it's really remarkable the fact that this "rebellion" was started and is lead by non Ukrainians, but Russians citizens that have also participated in other wars.

Civilians perspective has been quite well documented by Vice News journalists for instance. This is just a big Russian created mess to debilitate a Ukraine that seems to be closing links with other nations instead of with the Czar Putin. But in the same way the Czar has done in other parts. I suggest you for instance to read the book "One soldier's war" which is written by a Russian soldier that server first as a conscript, then as a professional and finally as a journalist in the Chechnya wars.

[aleksadragutin 9]

War is a terrible thing, and it is by its self a crime. So it is not right to point out 1 sides wrongs and completely ignore the other side. You can't deny the major crimes and wrongs committed by the Ukrainian army. In the end isn't the whole reason for this war the wish of ethnic Russians to have greater rights and autonomy, and so it shouldn't be odd that most of the rebel fighters are Russian.

[beastcat 14]

War is a terrible thing, and it is by its self a crime. So it is not right to point out 1 sides wrongs and completely ignore the other side. You can't deny the major crimes and wrongs committed by the Ukrainian army. In the end isn't the whole reason for this war the wish of ethnic Russians to have greater rights and autonomy, and so it shouldn't be odd that most of the rebel fighters are Russian.

The whole reason for this war is russia trying to take away parts of a country, that is not a puppet government anymore. If you look at every serious survey, you will see, that only a tiny fraction supports the separatists, which is also the reason why the majority of separatists are russian citizens. If it was about greater rights and autonomy, the people would have used the democratic way. This is Georgia all over again, just worse.

[negah 26]

The whole reason for this war is russia trying to take away parts of a country, that is not a puppet government anymore. If you look at every serious survey, you will see, that only a tiny fraction supports the separatists, which is also the reason why the majority of separatists are russian citizens. If it was about greater rights and autonomy, the people would have used the democratic way. This is Georgia all over again, just worse.

So if Russia is so evil and Ukrainian govt is so good and democratic, why are the refugees fleeing to Russia and not western Ukraine, there is no war there. Is it because Putin told them to do it by threatening to shoot them and eat their children? Or is it because they are afraid theyll be massacred like the people in Odessa?

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/26/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/

http://fox2now.com/2014/07/26/donetsk-residents-flee-fighting-russians-report-spike-in-ukrainian-refugees/

About Georgia 2008 yeah you're right, same situation but worse this time. Back then Georgian army has also shelled civilian areas. However Russian army has intervened back then and the killings were a put to an end after a couple of days. This time its different and I see no ending of the killings of the civilians. I'm not supporting the actions of the separatists just to clarify, Russia is also playing dark here and has its own interests. But the actions of the Ukrainian government are just as disgusting.

[vilas 473]

So if Russia is so evil and Ukrainian govt is so good and democratic, why are the refugees fleeing to Russia and not western Ukraine, there is no war there.

- because Russia has 10 times better social,

- because in democratic state MAJORITY rules and votes idea, but it means minority has to obey (in this cause majority want to be pro-west and pro-EU), in this case, minority doesn't want to be in EU, doesn't want gay-rights, doesn't want to live in less police-controlled state (they want what Russians call order (poryadok) , they do not want our problems which we have in Europe where ciriminal is over victim)

it is simply difference in values they believe, and they want to live in country which is closer to them (but further from EU ideas which western Ukrainians want)

i must remind old VICE news tapes, when in begining of this war , people from Eastern Ukraine were saying what they want , they have more eastern values than western Ukrainians

so it is NOT case of Ukraine being not democratic, simply western Ukrainian values are far from Russian values , it is democracy that 70% chooses what 30% has to do, problem is that 30% is totally against, problem is that this is 30% not 1% and this brings people resistance,

look once again at old VICE news report and what people were saying in the east ? "we do not want to be in EU, we do not want gay marriages" , if democracy will choose that 70% votes for gay marriage, than this 30% has problem cause they are strongly against, but it is not about wrong democracy, it is about what local people want

the best would be federalistation, like USA

when i want to live in liberal state, i move to such, when i want to live in republican - i move there

EU forces 1 law on all different countries and cultures - and it makes problem, and this those people do not accept (my country is another example, we are in EU, but we wanted only economical EU, not lifestyle EU, not politcall correctness, we wanted only economical union and free travel and business and work),

it has nothing to non-democracy, cause in real democracy 51% can vote to slaughter 49%, because they voted and they won, so it is democracy when 50%+1 voice decides,

democracy is not system where everyone has equal right to rule, democracy is system where majority votes what minority has to do, but this minority doesn't accept it ,

if Russians there are 30-40%, than others are 60-70%, you must remember about it, if Russians want union with Russia, they would be outvoted, so they not accept such solution (Yanuk was said to be pro-Russian more than it would be from voting results, he won thanx to Eastern UA votes, he won elections in eastern regions, in western regions his opponents won, but whole industry is in East part)

real problem is when 80% of society is against something, and Brussels forces it, those people know about it (they know about Poland and huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge unemployment, destroyed local industry, tax-free western corporations, they want their industry (which is located in Eastern Ukraine) to not be under western corporations hands ) and they are fighting also because they do not want to be in EU (i would not say like Misty that rebels are Russian intel and mercenaries, rebels are also locals that hate western politically correct values and people who want big social and controlling police state, they want USSR back and Puting gives very good social care, much better than in my country, 10 times better than in Ukraine)

Putin cares more about Russian citizen, than many EU leaders care about their voters economical status, so those people from Eastern Part, from Russian nationality want to be in Russia much more, it has nothing to failure of democracy in Ukraine, cause their president WAS voted by majority, their parliament members WERE voted too

simply 30% want to be over 70% in some regions when it comes to who sets rules, if you think that democracy is system in which 30% should say (or should be equal to decide) what 70% must do - you do not understand what is democracy, in democracy it is not important who is wrong , what is good, moral, what is honest, what is good from economical point of view, but what was voted by majority

one Polish politician say - democracy is system where (when decide about budget) 2 uneducated lads drunkards have more rights than 1 professor of economy - sorry but noone invented anything better so far

Edited July 29, 2014 by vilas

[surpher 1]

So if Russia is so evil and Ukrainian govt is so good and democratic, why are the refugees fleeing to Russia and not western Ukraine, there is no war there. Is it because Putin told them to do it by threatening to shoot them and eat their children? Or is it because they are afraid theyll be massacred like the people in Odessa?

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/26/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/

http://fox2now.com/2014/07/26/donetsk-residents-flee-fighting-russians-report-spike-in-ukrainian-refugees/

They are fleeing to other parts of Ukraine, why don't you read the links you post.

(UN) Ukraine: Overview of population displacement (as of 23 July 2014)