Ukraine General

[oxmox 73]

Poroshenko says he will hold referendum on NATO membership

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko says he plans to hold a national referendum on NATO membership. Speaking during a visit to France, Poroshenko called the question of joining NATO "fundamental" and promised to put it to a vote, althogh he did not mention a specific date.

Support for NATO membership among Ukrainians has risen dramatically since Russia annexed Crimea last year and began its involvement in the armed conflict in eastern Ukraine - with polls late last year showing a majority in favour of joining. Despite growing support in Ukraine, US and European officials have expressed doubt that Ukraine would be able to join the Western alliance in the short term.

http://uatoday.tv/geopolitics/poroshenko-says-he-will-hold-referendum-on-nato-membership-423097.html

@ProfTournesol, dont believe it since it is from UT....;)

Pentagon denies Moscow claim of U.S. troops in Ukraine combat zone

The Russian Defense Ministry said on Thursday that U.S. troops were training Ukrainian forces in the conflict zone in eastern Ukraine, but the Pentagon flatly denied it, accusing Moscow of a "ridiculous attempt" to obscure its own activity in the region.

Interfax quoted Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Major General Igor Konashenkov as saying U.S. troops were training Ukrainian forces not only in western Ukraine "as Ukrainian TV channels show, but directly in the combat zone in the area of Mariupol, Severodonetsk, Artyomovsk and Volnovakha."

The Russian Defense Ministry confirmed the report, but the Pentagon flatly denied it.

Lainez said the Pentagon has been clear that it has a few hundred troops training Ukrainian guardsmen in the western part of the country near Poland.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/23/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-pentagon-idUSKBN0NE20Q20150423

Ukraine truce: US accuses Russia of violating deal

The US has accused Russia of deploying more air defence systems in eastern Ukraine in breach of a ceasefire deal.

The state department also said Russia was involved in training separatist forces in the area and building up its forces along the border.

Earlier this month, about 300 US paratroopers arrived in western Ukraine to train with Ukrainian national guard units.

:p --> One of the key points of the Minsk deal stipulates that all foreign armed groups, weapons and mercenaries should withdraw from Ukrainian territory.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32425602

So, how should the other key points of the Minsk deal be respected if aswell western troops and military gear are deployed in the Ukraine.....

Poland Backs Away From Dialogue After Ukraine Glorifies Nazi Collaborators

Poland's president ruled out any further “historic dialogue†with Ukraine following its glorification of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) as fighters for independence.

Polish President Bronisław Komorowski has condemned the Ukrainian Rada's recent recognition of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) as fighters for independence.

“There could be no reconciliation between Poland and Ukraine without a dialogue,†the president said in his interview with TVN24 news channel.

“We have a lot of work ahead in [setting] our relations with Ukraine,†he added.

On April 9 Ukraine's parliament passed a “Law on the Status and Memory of the Participants in the Struggle for Independence in the 20th Centuryâ€, recognizing ultranationalist groups like the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) and Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) as freedom fighters.

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150423/1021261030.html

Edited April 23, 2015 by oxmox

[maturin 12]

Earlier this month, about 300 US paratroopers arrived in western Ukraine to train with Ukrainian national guard units.

--> One of the key points of the Minsk deal stipulates that all foreign armed groups, weapons and mercenaries should withdraw from Ukrainian territory.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32425602

So, how should the other key points of the Minsk deal be respected if aswell western troops and military gear are deployed in the Ukraine.....

Okay, let's all put on our stupid hats and read the Minsk agreement, translated into stupidese.

Crimea is Ukraine, so I guess Russia just agreed to move the Black Sea fleet at Minsk.

Minsk obviously refers to combatants in the conflict zone. A sovereign country has an unimpeachable right to invite foreign trainers, and no one considers them as 'deployed' military forces. Nor are they probably even armed. I saw a bunch of Mongolian soldiers in the St. Petersburg metro. I wonder why the press wasn't screaming about an invasion from Genghis Khan II?

[jakerod 254]

Russian Roulette (Dispatch 107) - Meet the Texan Fighting for the DPR (Didn't link it due to some possibly offensive language)

Edited April 24, 2015 by Jakerod

[TheMightyKovacs 6]

Russian Roulette (Dispatch 107) - Meet the Texan Fighting for the DPR (Didn't link it due to some possibly offensive language)

He's an...interesting fellow. That all I'll say.

[aleksadragutin 9]

Okay, let's all put on our stupid hats and read the Minsk agreement, translated into stupidese.

Crimea is Ukraine, so I guess Russia just agreed to move the Black Sea fleet at Minsk.

Minsk obviously refers to combatants in the conflict zone. A sovereign country has an unimpeachable right to invite foreign trainers, and no one considers them as 'deployed' military forces. Nor are they probably even armed. I saw a bunch of Mongolian soldiers in the St. Petersburg metro. I wonder why the press wasn't screaming about an invasion from Genghis Khan II?

Crimea was a part of Ukraine, but Sevastopol had a special status, and was part of Russia as a federal city, so the Black Sea fleet is technically in Russian theritory.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevastopol

[St. Jimmy 272]

He's an...interesting fellow. That all I'll say.

If that's the same guy I saw in another video some week ago well he seemed to be pretty narrow minded and weird person. Well that's likely the case in many mercenaries/foreign fighters on both sides that are just fighting there because they like it or get some money out of it.

[vilas 477]

http://wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,1356,title,Mordercza-epidemia,wid,17479733,wiadomosc.html

shame that Google translator is not the best to translate Slavic languages (declinations issues)

but article is about all those strange killings of previous gov. officers, journalists from Ukrainian former regime

article says that there is probably explanation in dirty business and "oligarchs are like cockroaches"

there are examples of corruption like:

Ukrainian government want to sell some industrial plant, western companies offer 1500 mln USD, Ukrainian oligarch Ahmetov offers 800 mln USD (twice less) and Ukrainian administration founds his buy offer better ? lol

probably all those strange killings are neither far right activity nor Russian intel, but simply mafia wars

mistakes that many make in this topic is to looking for poltical explanation "it was made by CIA" vs "it was made by Putin GRU", "it was made by neo-nazis"

but probably those all things are just mafia wars, oligarchs fighting and removing witnesses of their corruption, removing corrupted clerks by those who gave them bribes to avoid corruption trials in future

we must remember that Ukraine is most corrupted country in EU since decades, young country with yet not established tradition of transparency, post -soviet mafia etc.

we cannot sign murders to "CIA, Kremlin GRU, UPA" while it simply can be "business their way"

when oligarch was giving bribes to clerk X, than after change of gov. (new other oligarch rule) he afraids that case from past can be put to court (not because of honesty, but because of other competitive oligarch in rule) so he eliminates bribe-taker to avoid blackmail threat in future (killing comes easy in Ukraine level of corruption in law enforcement) ,

maybe looking at it as simply mafia wars is the best , cause such killings are not in interest of Ukraine gov. (keep witness alive to judge others or blackmail others and using blackmail as control method) nowadays, nor in Kremlin public relations view and also blackmail control ,

also this murdered Kalashnikove was organizer of lads/hooligans supporting Yanukovitch during Maidan, he was far-right wing enemy no. 1 cause he organized anti-Maidan thugs which beaten people BUT he was important for new government because he knew secrets about organization and payment of those hooligans groups (called Titushky) so he was important witness and noone kills your own witness, journalist which died was investigating Poroshenko businesses (so not political stuff but economical stuff)

fishing in troubled water

coin has 2 sides, but Ukrainian conflict has more sides, there are not only interests of "CIA, Putin" , there are local mafia bosses interests too,

article ends with sentence :

Ukrainian public prosecutor or judge earns 400 Euro but when you see them leaving job - they drive best Porshe and they wear most expensive clothes , it is IMPOSSIBLE to buy such car when you earn 400 Eu and have family - so oligarchs in fact rule law enforcement of Ukraine , simply Militia, Prosecutor Office , Courts - in Ukraine are simply in pocket of local oligarchs, pure feudal structure from XII century

we must remember that Ukraine is one of most poor (poverty) country in Europe, wages in Ukraine are very very very very small , but in big cities public servants have newest and best western limousines or sport cars,

you cannot buy one tyre of such car from such salary

now how can prosecutor or police detective investigate case of murder - when he earn 400 USD monthly (5000 USD a year) and his car is worthy 100 000 USD ? for sure he wont investigate it honestly

who knows - maybe Yanuk from Moscow orders it to clean his mafia activity , not Putin, not neo-nazis, but maybe oligarchs in Ukraine, maybe Yanukovitch

one of persons killed last time (says article) shown to parliament comission documents which were showing criminal corruption activity of Ahmetov (is he the most rich person in Ukraine ? ) , Pinchov, Fritash - 3 olichars

so 3 oligarchs might want to eliminate him

if i had to set probablity on who ordered killings like:

- new government for what ?

- neo-nazis, far-right looking for justice in this mess out there,

- Kremlin / Putin to discredit Ukraine, to fuel "DNR", to eliminate wintess

- CIA conspiracy theory for what ?

- mafia , oligarchs , corrupted cooperants connected by bribes in past which nowadays may testify against,

i would set

- 0.1%

- 5 %

- 1%

- 0.01%

- 93.89%

political reason of killings probably is the best for everyone except truth

cause :

- Ukraine accuse Kremlin on attempt to discredit Ukraine,

- Kremlin accuse Ukraine of crimes,

- "DNR" accuse "nazis",

- Ukrainian oligarchs in rule accuse far-right (as i said year ago = far right is enemy of everyone there, cause they stand for honest and strong country - which is not needed neither by corrupted Ukrainian administration, nor by oligarchs, nor by foreign business (EU/US companies willing to steal Ukrainian property, RUssian oligarchs willing to steal Ukrainian property, Kremlin willing to control Ukraine)

while truth might be - simply it was mafia (oligarchs or corrupted law enforcement servants) cleaning anyone who can testify (because they took bribes or because they knew about bribes)

when oligarchy owns law enforcement than competitive oligarch will set law enforcement to investigate crimes of other oligarch, so those other oligarchs want to remove any witness (corrupted ones or honest ones who had proofs of corruption) but of course propaganda loves political root of killing, so one side may discredit opposite side in media, and it is not usefull to tell that something may be simply criminal activity connected with oligarchs

in case of Poland (i look for similarities) we also had a lot of strange deaths, and it were death that you could always connect with knowledge about bribes

after fall of communism and privatization (selling our industry cheap to foreign corporations) in 1989-1990 we had right wing who wanted to investigate economical crimes later those activists , clerks, journalists were found dead,

cause they were honest , while both business and those who took bribes - didn't want to find themselves in court for economical cheats and crimes on very huge money (milions of dollars) cause what if fake contracts would be de-legalized and taken as not-signed by court ? than you have politician in jail, nationalized plant , so noone wants truth , neither paying bribe, nor receiving bribe

Edited April 24, 2015 by vilas

[maturin 12]

Crimea was a part of Ukraine, but Sevastopol had a special status, and was part of Russia as a federal city, so the Black Sea fleet is technically in Russian theritory.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevastopol

You know what I mean. And Russian forces are all over Crimea, obviously.

When the negotiators signed the 'foreign forces and mercenaries must leave Ukraine' clause, this obviously was not meant to refer to Crimea or peaceful parts of Ukraine where there has been no conflict.

[aleksadragutin 9]

You know what I mean. And Russian forces are all over Crimea, obviously.

When the negotiators signed the 'foreign forces and mercenaries must leave Ukraine' clause, this obviously was not meant to refer to Crimea or peaceful parts of Ukraine where there has been no conflict.

That would mean that they had to define peaceful parts, and there's always a possibility of another rebellions starting in for example Odessa.

Besides, Russia does not consider Crimea a part of Ukraine, so it did not agree to hand it over. The fact that western countries consider it Ukraine is another thing. Imagine you could get out of an international treaty just by saying "i don't recognize it as valid anymore".

[Tonci87 163]

That would mean that they had to define peaceful parts, and there's always a possibility of another rebellions starting in for example Odessa.

Besides, Russia does not consider Crimea a part of Ukraine, so it did not agree to hand it over. The fact that western countries consider it Ukraine is another thing. Imagine you could get out of an international treaty just by saying "i don't recognize it as valid anymore".

Exactly, there never was an international treaty giving Crimea to Russia, Russia simply recognized it as Russian. I´m happy that we both agree that that was wrong.

New Dispatch

That guy really knows how to ask the right questions. What can 300 US soldiers who by the looks of it don´t have any combat experience teach Ukrainian Army vets that they don´t know already? And then they choose to train troops of the interior ministry formerly loyal to the ousted president. And the rain kind off came at just the right moment.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Tonci87

[aleksadragutin 9]

Didn't really say if it was wrong or not, just stated the obvious facts.

[Tonci87 163]

Didn't really say if it was wrong or not, just stated the obvious facts.

Come on, you are making a fool out of yourself. If you say something then at least stick to it, even if it proves your views wrong.

[aleksadragutin 9]

Come on, you are making a fool out of yourself. If you say something then at least stick to it, even if it proves your views wrong.

I seriously don't know what you're talking about. I never said anything about it's ethics. Just stated the facts. Rusia did recognize Crimea as Rusia without an international treaty.

Edited April 25, 2015 by aleksadragutin

[mistyronin 1181]

Simon is really good as a journalist, really good questions.

I seriously don't know what you're talking about. I never said anything about it's ethics. Just stated the facts. Rusia did recognize Crimea as Rusia without an international treaty.

Well Russia had invaded Crimea against any international law, why would they need an international treaty to recognize a territory they just invaded?

[aleksadragutin 9]

Well Russia had invaded Crimea against any international law, why would they need an international treaty to recognize a territory they just invaded?

Not sure what we're debating here, since I said the same thing.

[mistyronin 1181]

Not sure what we're debating here, since I said the same thing.

It was a rhetorical question. :)

[oxmox 73]

EU, Ukraine Meet but Remain At Odds on a Number of Issues (WSJ - Wall Street Journal)

European Union’s Tusk doesn’t foresee a peacekeeping mission,

while Poroshenko defends pace of domestic reforms

Leaders of the European Union and Ukraine made little headway Monday in easing strains between them, despite common ground in opposing Russia’s intervention in the east of the country.

After their first formal summit since Russia annexed Crimea in eastern Ukraine a year ago, the EU played down prospects for a peacekeeping operation here, while Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko defended the pace of his government’s economic overhauls and anticorruption drive.

European Council President Donald Tusk said the bloc would soon send a team to assess “the needs and possibilities†for an EU mission. However, any such operation must be purely civilian, he said, warning that a military component was currently impossible.

Mr. Poroshenko bristled at suggestions his administration was too slow. “In current conditions we just ask for one thing: fair assessment of the Ukraine’s team actions,†he said at a news conference. “The notion that Ukraine is lagging behind with the reforms isn’t necessarily fair and not necessarily true.â€

A year into a grinding standoff with Russia over Ukraine, EU and Ukrainian diplomats have acknowledged a widening set of differences.

Violence had subsided across most of the front line. But OSCE monitors reported late Sunday they had witnessed some of the heaviest shelling since February around Shyrokyne, a town on the outskirts of Mariupol, the largest city in the region still under Kiev’s control.

The EU and Kiev sounded a joint note on the violence. European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said all sides must fully implement the Minsk agreement, which he said “doesn’t foresee stepping up of Russian aggression.â€

Mr. Poroshenko also renewed his call for the EU to consider Ukraine for eventual membership. Asked to respond, Mr. Juncker said the question of a Ukrainian membership bid wouldn’t be on the table for the foreseeable future.

Meanwhile, Mr. Poroshenko’s call for quick progress on visa-free travel for Ukrainians to the EU appeared to receive short thrift. Ukrainian diplomats say the EU is blocking progress because of concerns that Russia’s control of Ukraine’s eastern borders would produce a wave of uncontrolled migration.

Brussels says Kiev hasn’t done its homework. A senior EU official said Mr. Juncker handed Mr. Poroshenko a one-page summary of tasks Kiev must implement for the talks to succeed.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-president-petro-poroshenko-eu-officials-discuss-reforms-in-kiev-1430132684

[vilas 477]

http://niezalezna.pl/66491-kto-zestrzelil-malezyjskiego-boeinga-znamy-nazwisko-rosjanina-ktory-wiozl-wyrzutnie

Russian soldier on Russian facebook (Vkontakte) shown by mistake some things which may led to proof that he was driver of truck driving Buk which shot down MH17 flight

a lot of internauts made backups, and so far one website in my country wrote about it, probably in few hours it will be news of the day,

it requires to investigate those things by someone

http://www.paginaderusia.ro/soldatul-rus-dmitri-zubov-a-postat-fotografii-de-pe-traseul-sistemului-buk-care-a-doborat-mh-17/

http://ukrainiancrisis.net/news/10276 < in English laguage

http://news.online.ua/697882/rossiyskiy-soldat-dmitriy-zubov-vylozhil-marshrut-buka-kotoryy-sbil-boing-777-18-foto/

----------

Germany, France to give up Ukraine for sake of business with Russia, Ribentrop-Molotov 21 c. :

https://translate.google.pl/translate?sl=pl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=pl&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.defence24.pl%2Fanaliza_niemcy-uspokoja-rosje-kosztem-ukrainy-w-co-gra-berlin&edit-text=

Edited April 28, 2015 by vilas

[Tonci87 163]

http://niezalezna.pl/66491-kto-zestrzelil-malezyjskiego-boeinga-znamy-nazwisko-rosjanina-ktory-wiozl-wyrzutnie

Russian soldier on Russian facebook (Vkontakte) shown by mistake some things which may led to proof that he was driver of truck driving Buk which shot down MH17 flight

a lot of internauts made backups, and so far one website in my country wrote about it, probably in few hours it will be news of the day,

it requires to investigate those things by someone

http://www.paginaderusia.ro/soldatul-rus-dmitri-zubov-a-postat-fotografii-de-pe-traseul-sistemului-buk-care-a-doborat-mh-17/

http://ukrainiancrisis.net/news/10276 < in English laguage

http://news.online.ua/697882/rossiyskiy-soldat-dmitriy-zubov-vylozhil-marshrut-buka-kotoryy-sbil-boing-777-18-foto/

----------

Germany, France to give up Ukraine for sake of business with Russia, Ribentrop-Molotov 21 c. :

https://translate.google.pl/translate?sl=pl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=pl&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.defence24.pl%2Fanaliza_niemcy-uspokoja-rosje-kosztem-ukrainy-w-co-gra-berlin&edit-text=

More like Munich two

[vilas 477]

politics over criminal law:

prosecutor office dismissed claim against young neo-nazi:

after war in Ukraine, Poland offered help and few thousands Ukrainian kids, students, wounded - found shelter in Poland , they study in our universities on our cost,

among them there were small group of neo-nazis, supporting Bandera,

one of them posted on Facebook that he supports WW2 crimes, Poles should be slaughtered etc. , he studied in Poland and get scholarship from our taxes,

so people notified prosecutor office to hunt him,

prosecutor office refused to take any action - so politics (against Russia, pro Ukraine) is higher than criminal case against neo-nazi calling for another holocaust (one such student may make bad public relations vision to thousand of Ukrainians here)

[ArmAMake 10]

Changing the borders of the Donbass republics with 01.07.14 to 01.03.15.

[Tonci87 163]

They were on the brink of beeing wiped out when Russia saved their ass....

[oxmox 73]

Forest fire breaks out near Chernobyl nuclear plant

A fire has broken out in woods near Ukraine's disused Chernobyl nuclear plant, the site of a meltdown in 1986.

Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said about 400 hectares of forest was alight in the exclusion zone around the plant

Up to 200 firefighters, along with scores of trucks and aircraft, were tackling the blaze about 15 to 20km (9 to 12 miles) from the nuclear plant.

Zoryan Shkiryak, head of Ukraine's emergency services, said later the fire had been brought under "full" control.

The meltdown at Chernobyl sent a plume of radiation across Europe, the worst nuclear accident in history.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32502393

[beastcat 14]

politics over criminal law:

prosecutor office dismissed claim against young neo-nazi:

after war in Ukraine, Poland offered help and few thousands Ukrainian kids, students, wounded - found shelter in Poland , they study in our universities on our cost,

among them there were small group of neo-nazis, supporting Bandera,

one of them posted on Facebook that he supports WW2 crimes, Poles should be slaughtered etc. , he studied in Poland and get scholarship from our taxes,

so people notified prosecutor office to hunt him,

prosecutor office refused to take any action - so politics (against Russia, pro Ukraine) is higher than criminal case against neo-nazi calling for another holocaust (one such student may make bad public relations vision to thousand of Ukrainians here)

I think that may fall under freedom of speech. In Germany there is still the National Democratic Party and Islamists calling to kill all non-muslims and they are free to say what they want as well.

[sudayev 27]

They were on the brink of beeing wiped out when Russia saved their ass....

Yeah, that humanitarian aid was badly needed ;)