Dwarden 1125 Posted February 10, 2015 hardly Uragan, that has rockets with <50km range AFAIK ... so 30-40km 'sneak' attack with rocket arty vehicles behind enemy lines is less likely that leaves only Smerch or Tornado ... with ability to hit targets up to 120 km the good question is who supplied those to Rebels (everyone knows anyway) as they not in equipment of Ukraine or 'easy' to obtain on black market ;) p.s. oxmox that's old video I seen those shots months ago Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) p.s. oxmox that's old video I seen those shots months ago I did google a bit, but it seems it is on the webpage from this russian TV channel and dated with 9th Febr. 2015 The shelling of a chemical plant in Donetsk: the film crew visited the site of the explosion (google translated) As reported from Donetsk special correspondent Nicholas Dolgacev RTR, on the site of the explosion is now a huge crater - not less than 10 meters deep with a diameter of about 50 meters. Earlier, the Ministry of Defence Donetsk People's Republic Eduard Basurin confirmed the explosion at the Donetsk state factory of chemical products, which occurred at night. According to him, there were ammunition. click me for translation Anyway, really big crater from this explosion. Edited February 10, 2015 by oxmox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kireta21 13 Posted February 10, 2015 Draft in Ukraine will be problematic, because there was no real conscription there since fall of Soviet Union. Even when military service was mandatory vast majority would simply pay off officer in charge and go home. To quote my co-worker (Ukranian) draft evasion was so easy that "only those willing to go, and idiots, end up in military". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted February 10, 2015 Indiscriminate shelling of a civilian area. Both sides will have to answer in front of courts for war crimes some time after this war ends. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nodunit 397 Posted February 10, 2015 Are camera dates like that automatic or can they be changed (for whatever reason)? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sgt.Spoetnik 10 Posted February 10, 2015 A Tochka-U or SS-21 Scarab is what made that big hole,and ive seen the footage 2 and its from around the plant, i did also see footage of a other hit elsewhere in donbass couple months ago, both are same effect,trees blown or destroyed and one massive crater. - and yes Ukraine have those 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
St. Jimmy 272 Posted February 10, 2015 I did google a bit, but it seems it is on the webpage from this russian TV channel and dated with 9th Febr. 2015The shelling of a chemical plant in Donetsk: the film crew visited the site of the explosion (google translated) As reported from Donetsk special correspondent Nicholas Dolgacev RTR, on the site of the explosion is now a huge crater - not less than 10 meters deep with a diameter of about 50 meters. Earlier, the Ministry of Defence Donetsk People's Republic Eduard Basurin confirmed the explosion at the Donetsk state factory of chemical products, which occurred at night. According to him, there were ammunition. click me for translation Anyway, really big crater from this explosion. just as I guessed how the explosion looked like. It makes huge crater like in that video so you can imagine something like that in the place where it landed. I guess that video doesn't really relate to the place where the factory explosion happened. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dwarden 1125 Posted February 11, 2015 I did google a bit, but it seems it is on the webpage from this russian TV channel and dated with 9th Febr. 2015The shelling of a chemical plant in Donetsk: the film crew visited the site of the explosion (google translated) As reported from Donetsk special correspondent Nicholas Dolgacev RTR, on the site of the explosion is now a huge crater - not less than 10 meters deep with a diameter of about 50 meters. Earlier, the Ministry of Defence Donetsk People's Republic Eduard Basurin confirmed the explosion at the Donetsk state factory of chemical products, which occurred at night. According to him, there were ammunition. click me for translation Anyway, really big crater from this explosion. the video maybe is new, I talk about the footage used in the video, I already seen it long time ago, hence irrelevant propaganda style (refurbished content) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sudayev 27 Posted February 11, 2015 Not sure if it was, but here is the story and video interview of the only American who joined the Ukrainian forces. https://news.vice.com/article/the-only-american-fighting-for-ukraine-dies-in-battle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) Ukrainian Foreign Minister Calls for defense weapons (FOCUS - 11th Feb. 2015 - google transl.) 01:09 pm: The Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavel Klimkin has regardless of current peace initiatives required to supply weapons to his country. "We need these weapons to retaliate targeted against the Russian-backed terrorists," says Klimkin the weekly newspaper "Die Zeit". "We need to raise costs for Russia. Only when the cost of keeping the conflict raise, there may be some stability. " Negotiation initiatives such as the German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President François Hollande, Klimkin assessed as "single track" and stays in uncompromising in his attitude, by no means to give up Occupied Territories. http://www.focus.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-krise/ukraine-krise-putin-nimmt-am-ukraine-gipfel-in-minsk-teil_id_4468529.html "We need defense weapons to create peace" (ZEIT - 11th Feb. 2015 - google transl.) In the dispute over military aid to the Ukrainian Army, Foreign Minister Klimkin demands arms shipments. He sees them as a condition for stability. The Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin calls for the supply of weapons to Ukraine: "We need these weapons to retaliate targeted against the Russian-backed terrorists," says Klimkin. "We need to raise costs for Russia in the air. Only when the cost of keeping the conflict rise, there may be some stability." Despite the complicated situation Klimkin believes to stop the attacks with weapons, "aimed at more territory, more victims and better positions for future attacks." Klimkin added: "We need defense weapons to create peace." ZEIT article google transl. Seems like the will for the peace initiative is missing........ What do they want to achieve without an success in todays negotiations with such an attitude. What a strange idea to try to raise the cost for Russia and therefore to prolong the war as long as possible, the Ukraine a country which is bankrupt...wtf. Edited February 11, 2015 by oxmox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted February 11, 2015 He is right though Do you really believe that Putin andf his separatists will stop now? Even if there is some kind of agreement, the separatists will ignore it just like they have done with all the past ones. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) He is right thoughDo you really believe that Putin andf his separatists will stop now? Even if there is some kind of agreement, the separatists will ignore it just like they have done with all the past ones. Well either you want negotiations for peace or you want war, since war is not the solution in the long run I say he is an ass to say this on the same day when negotiations happening. It is the Foreign Minister of the Ukraine and not just a deputy. This shows only that such politics like the statement from the ukrainian Foreign Minister wants to torpedo the peace initiative, even the statement from the US/Obama was more sensible. Edited February 11, 2015 by oxmox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dwarden 1125 Posted February 11, 2015 oxmox you probably not realized it but UKR is already in war ... the aggressor is laughing cause 'they officially not involved' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) oxmox you probably not realized it but UKR is already in war ... the aggressor is laughing cause 'they officially not involved' We are talking about politicians and their efforts, most defence minister of Europe are supporting the peace initative which started by Hollande and Merkel..everyone wants to end the war. With such statements they play in the hands of Russia, because they did accuse the Ukraine to solve the problem only with military strength. Lets see the outcome of the negotiations, Russia is involved in these talks.... Edited February 11, 2015 by oxmox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted February 11, 2015 The outcome will either be a Ukrainian capitulation (or something that resembles that) or no agreement at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted February 11, 2015 Lets see the outcome of the negotiations, Russia is involved in these talks.... In fact Russia has been involved in all the talks about Ukraine, even if according to the Kremlin Russia is not part of the conflict. Are an indeed weird peace negotiations if technically only one side of the conflict is represented officially there. To make it even funnier, the Pro-Russian leaders have said a good amount of times that Russia doesn't represent them, but they are traveling to Russia often. In fact most of the original leaders were Russian citizens from the Moscow area... Concluding this is all a big joke designed by the Kremlin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) In fact Russia has been involved in all the talks about Ukraine, even if according to the Kremlin Russia is not part of the conflict. Are an indeed weird peace negotiations if technically only one side of the conflict is represented officially there. To make it even funnier, the Pro-Russian leaders have said a good amount of times that Russia doesn't represent them, but they are traveling to Russia often. In fact most of the original leaders were Russian citizens from the Moscow area... Concluding this is all a big joke designed by the Kremlin. The representatives and leader of the seperatists are in Minsk aswell and are ready to sign an arrangement if the results of the talks are successful , started by Merkel & Hollande as a peace initiative. The leadership in Kiev rejects direct talks with the leaders of the seperatists - edit: Kiev not Minsk. Die Welt The outcome will means either a chance for peace or war. Edited February 11, 2015 by oxmox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted February 11, 2015 http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/80947000/jpg/_80947679_80947261.jpg If only we could put them all in a boxing ring and have them sort it out between themselves.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) Ukraine's president says he is ready to introduce martial law if violence continues Announcement comes on the day of the four-way peace summit in Minsk http://uatoday.tv/news/poroshenko-we-are-ready-to-declare-martial-law-in-ukraine-408685.html Here is a longer video about the current meeting in Minsk inclusive the shaking hand scene, aswell Lukashenkos delay to allow Putin to get a chair :D.. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31430230 If only we could put them all in a boxing ring and have them sort it out between themselves.... .............. " imagine there is war and nobody showed up" Edited February 11, 2015 by oxmox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted February 11, 2015 Yeah, it begins by a handshake, let's hope it won't finish with a kick in the a** Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted February 11, 2015 The leadership in Kiev rejects direct talks with the leaders of the seperatists - edit: Kiev not Minsk. Any viable source on that? Because not even I-love-Putin-main-propaganda-source-RT comments it. It seems that not even RT is hiding anymore that the "Pro-Russians" are forces under Kremlin's orders. ( RT ) 'Normandy 4' Ukraine peace talks in Minsk LIVE UPDATES The leaders of Germany, France, Russia and Ukraine are gathering in the Belarusian capital, Minsk, to discuss a last-ditch attempt to negotiate a political solution to the bloody Ukrainian civil war. The four leaders are planning to sign a joint declaration on the implementation of the Minsk agreement, a source in the Belarusian capital has told Interfax-Ukraine.“The signing of a joint declaration on the implementation of the Minsk agreements is planned,†the source said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) Any viable source on that? Because not even I-love-Putin-main-propaganda-source-RT comments it. you could quickly google it, but nvm...the situation seems to exist since a longer time Poroshenko: 'No negotiations with separatists' (8th May - 2014) http://www.dw.de/poroshenko-no-negotiations-with-separatists/a-17619764 Ukraine rules out direct talks with separatists (Reuters - 19th Nov - 2014) http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/19/us-ukraine-crisis-lavrov-idUSKCN0J30T920141119 The Ukrainian parliament on Tuesday declared the Russia-backed separatist republics in the east to be terrorist organizations, formally eliminating the possibility of holding peace talks with their representatives, as fighting escalated. (CBC - 21st January - 2015) Putin insists on direct talks between Ukraine and separatists (9th February - 2015) FAZ The sentence which I did post is taken from the link, just click " Die Welt " = source from today. You will probably find more if you search for it.... Edited February 11, 2015 by oxmox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted February 11, 2015 You will probably find more if you search more for it.... Yeah, I think I haven't been specific enough. Where does Poroshenko say that he will not negotiate with the pro-Russians in Minsk today? The Ukrainian parliament on Tuesday declared the Russia-backed separatist republics in the east to be terrorist organizations, formally eliminating the possibility of holding peace talks with their representatives, as fighting escalated. What you just said doesn't make any sense. So you are saying that no government has ever negotiate with terrorists? So then why there are negotiations today? If according to you the "Russian-backed separatist republics" have no representatives there... :j: I thought that Putin was their representative as the pro-Russian overlord. But yeah I guess he was just passing by... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
